The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

horseburger

horseburger wrote: »

Well then that brings us back round to the fundamental question as to when it is ok for one human person to decide to end the life of another human who hasn't given consent for their life to be ended, and would otherwise continue growth and development.

they do not actually have a life until birth.
also, they may continue & grow, they may not, nothing for sure.

dudara

horseburger wrote: »

"Contraceptives"

Ms Doherty said she also disagreed with the pro-choice view that women in Ireland did not have determination over their own bodies.

“I genuinely and firmly believe that women already have the determination over their own bodies and that’s called contraceptives, so make the decisions before you find yourself in a position where you’re using an abortion as a form of a contraceptive afterwards.”".

I really hate this this judgemental and holier-than-thou position. Contraceptives don't 100% prevent pregnancy and this kind of statement implies that women who fall pregnant should suffer the consequences. It's a position that lacks understanding of the realities and that lacks humanity.

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

He does and I'd be more inclined to listen to him, because it is him who is stating that repeal campaigners are denying the humanity of what is being aborted.

If you are so sure that humanity is being denied by repeal advocates, why isn't he?

Are you pro-life or on the fence? You seem to be really avoiding that question.

horseburger

bubblypop wrote: »

they do not actually have a life until birth.
also, they may continue & grow, they may not, nothing for sure.

Not living until the split second their born?

horseburger

robarmstrong wrote: »

Are you pro-life or on the fence? You seem to be really avoiding that question.

Why do you want to know? It's not like you give a fu-ck.

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

Why do you want to know? It's not like you give a fu-ck.

Why don't you want to tell? Is it because you came in here claiming to be on the fence, yet have been nothing but pro-life since that very post?

Nobody likes a liar, tut tut, nothing wrong with coming clean, it's just not many people will want to engage with someone who's got a hidden agenda.

horseburger

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In other words you can't answer what I asked you.

Running off crying to a moderator.

Triceratops Ballet

horseburger wrote: »

Well then that brings us back round to the fundamental question as to when it is ok for one human person to decide to end the life of another human who hasn't given consent for their life to be ended, and would otherwise continue growth and development.

ignoring the fact that a foetus is human but not ahuman :rolleyes:

when is it ok for the rights of human matter (which has the potential to become a human being) which is wholly dependent on it's host to interfere with the human rights afforded to the host/human being?

pitifulgod

horseburger wrote: »

Why do you want to know? It's not like you give a fu-ck.

Because you initially said you were but show no indication that you really are on the fence..

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

In other words you can't answer what I asked you.

Running off crying to a moderator.

You can't answer what we've asked you...

PLOT TWIST

horseburger

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

horseburger, what's your opinion on the 8th amendment and how it impacts women, as opposed to your opinion on abortion?

Obviously impacts on women, That is why is mentioned that abortion should be available in cases of a risk to life of the mother that are not currently covered by legislation.

robarmstrong

dudara wrote: »

I really hate this this judgemental and holier-than-thou position. Contraceptives don't 100% prevent pregnancy and this kind of statement implies that women who fall pregnant should suffer the consequences. It's a position that lacks understanding of the realities and that lacks humanity.

To be honest, although views like that should obviously be completely disregarded as they are ridiculously uninformed and are subtly shaming those who contraception has failed, they're always gonna be there. In time though I hope people will disregard them as we have, as we all know and understand as mature adults with fully functioning brains capable of interpreting logic, that no contraception is 100%

horseburger

robarmstrong wrote: »

You can't answer what we've asked you...

PLOT TWIST

I answered what I was asked as to what I think should be available.

Triceratops Ballet

horseburger wrote: »

Obviously impacts on women, That is why is mentioned that abortion should be available in cases of a risk to life of the mother that are not currently covered by legislation.

But I didn't ask about abortion, I asked about the 8th amendment, you know, the thing we're actually voting on?

captbarnacles

horseburger wrote: »

Obviously impacts on women, That is why is mentioned that abortion should be available in cases of a risk to life of the mother that are not currently covered by legislation.

And disability of the woman?

horseburger

dudara wrote: »

I really hate this this judgemental and holier-than-thou position. Contraceptives don't 100% prevent pregnancy and this kind of statement implies that women who fall pregnant should suffer the consequences. It's a position that lacks understanding of the realities and that lacks humanity.

Dude, I wasn't endorsing what Regina Doherty said. I was criticizing her.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

horseburger

captbarnacles wrote: »

And disability of the woman?

what do you reckon yourself?

dudara

robarmstrong wrote: »

To be honest, although views like that should obviously be completely disregarded as they are ridiculously uninformed and are subtly shaming those who contraception has failed, they're always gonna be there. In time though I hope people will disregard them as we have, as we all know and understand as mature adults with fully functioning brains capable of interpreting logic, that no contraception is 100%

As human beings, we all have a natural tendency to be judgemental or feel superior. We all have it to some degree. It's hard to step back from our inbuilt tendencies to judge others. When you have a very black and white view of the world, you fail to see the greys.

horseburger

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

I started off by asking genuine questions too!:)

dudara

horseburger wrote: »

Dude, I wasn't endorsing what Regina Doherty said. I was criticizing her.

Not Dude, dudara

horseburger

dudara wrote: »

Not Dude, dudara

Could you at least edit your post to clearly indicate that the text you quoted is from the newspaper I referenced.

captbarnacles

horseburger wrote: »

what do you reckon yourself?

lol just answer the question

It's not relevant to me - I am completely pro-choice.

Triceratops Ballet

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

because due to the 8th amendment pregnant women are excluded from the HSE policy on consent, they don't have a right to consent to or refuse treatment during their pregnancy, there have been instances where the HSE has taken a case to the courts to try and compel a woman to undergo treatment she doesn't want.
For context all other patients can refuse treatment at any time, cancer patients can at any time refuse medical intervention even if it is advised by doctors and will prolong their lives

January

horseburger wrote: »

Dude, I wasn't endorsing what Regina Doherty said. I was criticizing her.

So, in the case where contraception fails, and the mother can't (or doesn't want to) have a child, what are the options there?

ohnonotgmail

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

because threats to the health of a pregnant woman are not the basis for an abortion. a woman could have a condition that leaves her crippled but she still wont be allowed have an abortion. a pregnant woman with cancer will have all cancer treatment stopped in case it hurts the child. stuff like that.

baylah17

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

Read the numerous reports into the death of Savita Hallapanaver for your answer

Zubeneschamali

horseburger wrote: »

what do you reckon yourself?

I reckon you are trying hard to get yourself thread banned so that you can paint the thread, the pro-choice posters or maybe the mods in an unflattering light somewhere.

"I was all, like, neutral! Just askin' questions!"

SusieBlue

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is access to abortion considered a health care issue by repeal advocates?

Because traveling to procure an abortion or taking abortion pills at home is unsafe for the woman in question. She has no medical supervision or aftercare while recovering and its extremely dangerous for her health.

And as roughly 4k women avail of abortion services each year, that's a huge amount of women that we're letting down by denying them healthcare.

This isn't even touching on the women with wanted pregnancies having crisis's that require terminations, only to be denied on the grounds of a very faint fetal heartbeat.

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