The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:15pm

dudara wrote: »

What about a woman that doesn’t want to be pregnant, because she is in education, doesn’t have enough money to support, doesn’t want to stop her career development, doesn’t want her husband to beat her etc. Can you write a piece of legislation that covers all the reasons a woman may not want to be pregnant.

Legislating for minority cases is downright daft. It’s poor lawmaking

Is that what repealing the 8th essentially doing???

Surely it's a minority of people who require/want an abortion let alone cases where there is a risk to health/life?

January · 17-04-2018 7:17pm

No, repealing the 8th will still mean abortion is illegal, so the government will have to draw up legislation to make it legal afterwards.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:18pm

dudara wrote: »

What about a woman that doesn’t want to be pregnant, because she is in education, doesn’t have enough money to support, doesn’t want to stop her career development, doesn’t want her husband to beat her etc. Can you write a piece of legislation that covers all the reasons a woman may not want to be pregnant.

Legislating for minority cases is downright daft. It’s poor lawmaking

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

Sofiztikated · 17-04-2018 7:18pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

Yup.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:23pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Yup.

So in that case you're giving an exceptional case to prove a rule you don't actually want to defend.

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 7:24pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

Yes. I don't want children. I never want children. I am not allowed to get my tubes tied in case I "change my mind". No contraception is 100% effective. The very thought of having children makes me feel sick, due to personal reasons. Carrying a child to term and giving it away would probably end up being the death of me. If I fell pregnant now, one way or another, I will not stay pregnant.

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortions.

January · 17-04-2018 7:25pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

Yes

Bannasidhe · 17-04-2018 7:26pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

Would I be in favour of women deciding if they wish to be pregnant?

Absolutely.

gctest50 · 17-04-2018 7:28pm

seamus wrote: »

No, because those running the pro life campaign believe that raped and pregnant children should be forced to carry to term and sick mothers required to risk their lives to give a foetus a chance instead.

It's a bit more than that, in cases of Fatal Fetal Abnormality, some want to check women into a peri-natal hospice

https://youtu.be/FXTEt3KSrYw?t=537

So if that was the way, a woman in Ireland would go through delivering a child who may only live for minutes ( if at all)

Going rate in a hospice maybe 900 euro/week

( I can't see it being much less than care for the older person

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/cost-of-care-private-and-voluntary-nursing-homes.pdf )

I'd reckon once established they'd seek money from health insurance under the 100 days thing :

In-patient mental health treatment for up to 100 days.

https://www.vhi.ie/pdf/myvhi/TOBFPL1%20V29%20Mar18.pdf

All sounds very familiar, not so many septic tanks around these days though

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:29pm

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Yes. I don't want children. I never want children. I am not allowed to get my tubes tied in case I "change my mind". No contraception is 100% effective. The very thought of having children makes me feel sick, due to personal reasons. Carrying a child to term and giving it away would probably end up being the death of me. If I fell pregnant now, one way or another, I will not stay pregnant.

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortions.

So in that case, you consider it a form of contraception?

dudara · 17-04-2018 7:30pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Is that what repealing the 8th essentially doing???

Surely it's a minority of people who require/want an abortion let alone cases where there is a risk to health/life?

In the grand scheme of things, the number of women who will ever want an abortion (for whatever reason) is a minority. Thankfully most pregnancies are welcomed and treated with joy. Unfortunately there are a mintory of cases where it is not wanted, or needs to be terminated for medical reasons. We need to acknowledge that these cases exist and allow choice. It’s far too complex to legislate for by exception

Triceratops Ballet · 17-04-2018 7:30pm

Ticklers what's your argument for keeping the 8th, why make the argument to keep it and add more amendments?

dudara · 17-04-2018 7:30pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Let me ask you, if the woman wasn't raped, in a bad relationship, completed her education and was well off? Would you still be in favour of abortion?

I would be in favour of her having a choice and choosing her own destiny. Whatever that may be

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 17-04-2018 7:31pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

So in that case you're giving an exceptional case to prove a rule you don't actually want to defend.

This nugget has been coming up frequently ever since it dawned on pro-life people that getting people to say "I'm in favour of abortion on request" isn't some kind of checkmate. If you're against "no access to abortion" and in favour of "access to abortion without discrimination as to the reason", then you somehow aren't allowed to talk about the people who the majority of people agree should be allowed access. It's a nonsense, nothing argument.

And you're no bertie or horseburger btw, they kept up a bit of plausible deniability for a couple pages at least. Although the shorter posts are appreciated fam.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:31pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Would I be in favour of women deciding if they wish to be pregnant?

Absolutely.

Women already have that choice, repealing the 8th is not going to change that.

Rjd2 · 17-04-2018 7:31pm

Has there been any polls in the last week or so regarding this? Can't seem to find any.

January · 17-04-2018 7:33pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Women already have that choice, repealing the 8th is not going to change that.

Can you explain this comment

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 7:34pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

So in that case, you consider it a form of contraception?

No.

I am actively taking contraception. In fact, myself and my partner use three forms if you must know. This is in order to not have to have an abortion. However, being realistic, not even that is 100% effective.

Triceratops Ballet · 17-04-2018 7:34pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote:

Women already have that choice, repealing the 8th is not going to change that.

How do they have that choice?

gctest50 · 17-04-2018 7:35pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

So in that case, you consider it a form of contraception?

Safety net

why do we have them on scaffold ? shouldn't be dropping stuff

NuMarvel · 17-04-2018 7:37pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Has there been any polls in the last week or so regarding this? Can't seem to find any.

Nothing published lately, but I saw a journalist say she was surveyed by IPSOS Mrbi yesterday, so there might be one coming up in the next week or so.

robarmstrong · 17-04-2018 7:38pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Women already have that choice, repealing the 8th is not going to change that.

Contraception isn't 100% effective, a woman using the pill or other contraceptives who falls pregnant due to the contraceptive failing does not choose to be pregnant, don't be so narrow minded.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:38pm

Misael Echoing Horse wrote: »

This nugget has been coming up frequently ever since it dawned on pro-life people that getting people to say "I'm in favour of abortion on request" isn't some kind of checkmate. If you're against "no access to abortion" and in favour of "access to abortion without discrimination as to the reason", then you somehow aren't allowed to talk about the people who the majority of people agree should be allowed access. It's a nonsense, nothing argument.

And you're no bertie or horseburger btw, they kept up a bit of plausible deniability for a couple pages at least. Although the shorter posts are appreciated fam.

It's not a checkmate, I just don't see the reason for the healthcare facade. It just clouds and confuses the issue further. If your in favour of abortion on request then just say so instead of taking the imaginary victim who has been raped or terminally ill and say "this is all abortions".

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 7:39pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Has there been any polls in the last week or so regarding this? Can't seem to find any.

I'm not sure but the poll on this thread is being reset next week if that's any use?

17-04-2018 7:40pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Women already have that choice, repealing the 8th is not going to change that.

explain how please?

Ave Sodalis · 17-04-2018 7:40pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

It's not a checkmate, I just don't see the reason for the healthcare facade. It just clouds and confuses the issue further. If your in favour of abortion on request then just say so instead of taking the imaginary victim who has been raped or terminally ill and say "this is all abortions".

You can't do both? People can have more than one reason. Reading something like In Her Shoes can really make you realise the impact the 8th has.

Triceratops Ballet · 17-04-2018 7:41pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote:

It's not a checkmate, I just don't see the reason for the healthcare facade. It just clouds and confuses the issue further. If your in favour of abortion on request then just say so instead of taking the imaginary victim who has been raped or terminally ill and say "this is all abortions".

There is no facade we're voting on the 8th amendment not abortion.

The proposed legislation is just proposed it hasn't passed the government could fall before it gets a chance, the pro life lobby can lobby for change. The 8th has to go because its a farce

v638sg7k1a92bx · 17-04-2018 7:42pm

bubblypop wrote: »

explain how please?

Birds and bees.

17-04-2018 7:42pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

It's not a checkmate, I just don't see the reason for the healthcare facade. It just clouds and confuses the issue further. If your in favour of abortion on request then just say so instead of taking the imaginary victim who has been raped or terminally ill and say "this is all abortions".

the 8th amendment is not about abortion.
if it is repealed then leglisation will be enacted to cover abortion.
repeal is about so much more, maybe if you actually read the issues facing womens healthcare you might see that.

the 8th should be repealed even if abortion was not an option after.

17-04-2018 7:43pm

Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »

Birds and bees.

that is not an explanation.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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