The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Ken.

erica74 wrote: »

Really? Did you think it would be the other way around?
I'm not sure if Repeal will win. I live in rural Ireland and I still see a lot of "old" Ireland around the place. I still see a lot of nonsense being thrown around about abortion and statistics etc. I just hope that everyone who can vote, will vote.

No just when I suggested the poll it was commented that rereg's would send the poll massively in the other direction. It surprises me.

January

Not to question mod decisions on thread but I cannot scroll through 10k posts on the other thread. But I am 95 percent sure da boss was banned from posting on the other thread.

erica74

erica74 wrote: »

Really? Did you think it would be the other way around?
I'm not sure if Repeal will win. I live in rural Ireland and I still see a lot of "old" Ireland around the place. I still see a lot of nonsense being thrown around about abortion and statistics etc. I just hope that everyone who can vote, will vote.

It is the same in parts of Dublin, but you might be right that it's more prevelant in rurual areas. In relation to topics such as divorce, there was seen to be a big rural/urban devide due to fears regarding losing the family farm or at least half of it, while in Dublin the same concerns were being raised in relation to family businesses.

As you said on the day as long as everyone votes.

Ken.

January wrote: »

Not to question mod decisions on thread but I cannot scroll through 10k posts on the other thread. But I am 95 percent sure da boss was banned from posting on the other thread.

This will be the last post on this discussion please. I've looked at our records and I can confirm that Da Boss/IsMiseJack is not thread banned from any thread in After Hours.

RobertKK

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Hasn't stopped you.

With regard to the poll, I would imagine a lot of people are pro-life, just like you, but they accept that the current situation, whereby abortion is either done illegally and without medical supervision, or outsourced to the UK, is neither humane nor pragmatic.

But I don't care what people think about me. I don't care if people don't agree with my views, and if half a dozen people want to reply to one comment, it quickly becomes tiresome, where as repeal people don't get the same scrutiny, as I don't think the retain side try to shut down debate the same way the repeal people try to do.
There is like a gang of people who tackle the one person when they disagree with that person. People can see it, some people avoid these topics as they know they will not be accepted and will only bring hassle on themselves for not taking the view that some people feel they must have.
I usually end up avoiding these threads for weeks when I feel I had enough, then return but it usually the same people posting but being pro-life you get called names, the mods do their best. I don't see pro-life people calling pro-choice people, pro-death. Some pro-choice say anti-choice, which is ironic when abortion removes the choice for the unborn to remain alive.
Then if someone doesn't share one's views, it doesn't make them warped, mental or whatever one wants to say someone is. Minister Regina Doherty saying people who don't share her pro-repeal views are ignorant and will need another vote if people don't vote the way she wants. This from our government.
People talk about having a mature debate, but when the government that is holding this referendum says the vote won't be respected if they lose and people who don't agree to repeal are ignorant, it shows the mess this referendum is already in, there is no respect for opposing views.
It is the same here, and that is why one sees the same people posting and not many new faces, most people avoid the topic.

Loafing Oaf

RobertKK wrote: »

Minister Regina Doherty saying people who don't share her pro-repeal views are ignorant and will need another vote if people don't vote the way she wants.

No she didn't...

david75

RobertKK wrote: »

But I don't care what people think about me. I don't care if people don't agree with my views, and if half a dozen people want to reply to one comment, it quickly becomes tiresome, where as repeal people don't get the same scrutiny, as I don't think the retain side try to shut down debate the same way the repeal people try to do.
There is like a gang of people who tackle the one person when they disagree with that person. People can see it, some people avoid these topics as they know they will not be accepted and will only bring hassle on themselves for not taking the view that some people feel they must have.
I usually end up avoiding these threads for weeks when I feel I had enough, then return but it usually the same people posting but being pro-life you get called names, the mods do their best. I don't see pro-life people calling pro-choice people, pro-death. Some pro-choice say anti-choice, which is ironic when abortion removes the choice for the unborn to remain alive.
Then if someone doesn't share one's views, it doesn't make them warped, mental or whatever one wants to say someone is. Minister Regina Doherty saying people who don't share her pro-repeal views are ignorant and will need another vote if people don't vote the way she wants. This from our government.
People talk about having a mature debate, but when the government that is holding this referendum says the vote won't be respected if they lose and people who don't agree to repeal are ignorant, it shows the mess this referendum is already in, there is no respect for opposing views.
It is the same here, and that is why one sees the same people posting and not many new faces, most people avoid the topic.

You’re missing the part where endless brand new accounts wade in with inflammatory remarks causing untold damage to the pro life view for any undecided voters that happen to be reading.

That’s been a glaring and obvious element in this thread the last week or two.

RobertKK

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No she didn't...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeal-campaigners-will-not-accept-a-no-vote-says-minister-1.3430112

“It was only when I informed myself that I realised just how ignorant I actually was,” she said.

If she she sees her previous views as being ignorant, it is easy to deduce...

While declining to say directly if the Government would call a second poll in the event of a rejection, Ms Doherty said she envisaged the pro-choice movement would strongly push for one.

She is pro-choice, given she is no longer 'ignorant'.

Loafing Oaf

RobertKK wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeal-campaigners-will-not-accept-a-no-vote-says-minister-1.3430112




If she she sees her previous views as being ignorant, it is easy to deduce...



She is pro-choice, given she is no longer 'ignorant'.

Thanks for clarifying how you misrepresented what she said.

RobertKK

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying how you misrepresented what she said.

Yet you just made a statement that has no substance to back up what you just posted.

RobertKK

david75 wrote: »

You’re missing the part where endless brand new accounts wade in with inflammatory remarks causing untold damage to the pro life view for any undecided voters that happen to be reading.

That’s been a glaring and obvious element in this thread the last week or two.

But how do you know they are pro-life, pro-repeal could easily make accounts and pretend so they end up trying to do what you say these people are doing.

robarmstrong

RobertKK wrote: »

pro-repeal could easily make accounts and pretend so they end up trying to do what you say these people are doing.

But they haven't, pro-life have so.....

Demonique

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't see pro-life people calling pro-choice people, pro-death. Some pro-choice say anti-choice, which is ironic when abortion removes the choice for the unborn to remain alive.

The unborn doesn't have the mental capacity to make a choice though

RobertKK

Demonique wrote: »

The unborn doesn't have the mental capacity to make a choice though

Never does the born baby, so their life should be a choice too...

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

But how do you know they are pro-life, pro-repeal could easily make accounts and pretend so they end up trying to do what you say these people are doing.

RobertKK wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/repeal-campaigners-will-not-accept-a-no-vote-says-minister-1.3430112




If she she sees her previous views as being ignorant, it is easy to deduce...



She is pro-choice, given she is no longer 'ignorant'.

Your shooting yourself in the foot here. Your posting an article and making a statement out of context to what is actually written in the article.

You stated earlier that the poll results if this thread were low for the no repeal side because people feel that they would be attacked for their airing their views, while ignoring the fact that you don't actually have to post your views in the thread in order to vote in the poll, and the voting is actually secret.

RobertKK

robarmstrong wrote: »

But they haven't, pro-life have so.....

But that is just guessing, one could easily make an account and come across as an extreme repeal person and post that the proposals don't go far enough and there should be no term limits, given it is a woman's choice as it is her body.

robarmstrong

Also Robert - there's no need for you to run from the thread due to feeling like you're being tackled by us as a group.

You have a different mindset and view than we do, we are keen to hear it in a rational, logical and reasonable debate. We have had several nasty pieces of work coming in and making the pro-life crowd look absolutely ridiculous, and why? Because it's the unpopular mindset, trolling as pro-life will have infinite more effect than trolling as pro-choice.

This negative experience has admittedly made us less tolerant of such views. It's difficult to try to hold a reasonable debate or discussion whilst trolls drop in and out of the conversation, as I'm sure you know.

We welcome any points you make and are happy to dissect them and discuss them, with the assumption that you would do the same for us.

I do not want to discourage any pro-lifers from a legitimate, educated discussion. I just don't want trolls is all.

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your shooting yourself in the foot here. Your posting an article and making a statement out of context to what is actually written in the article.

You stated earlier that the poll results if this thread were low for the no repeal side because people feel that they would be attacked for their airing their views, while ignoring the fact that you don't actually have to post your views in the thread in order to vote in the poll, and the voting is actually secret.

So Regina says her pro-life views were ignorant. The same prolife views that so many people in Ireland still have...

robarmstrong

RobertKK wrote: »

But that is just guessing, one could easily make an account and come across as an extreme repeal person and post that the proposals don't go far enough and there should be no term limits, given it is a woman's choice as it is her body.

It's just guessing.. Then you go on to make your own guess?

Right.

RobertKK

robarmstrong wrote: »

Also Robert - there's no need for you to run from the thread due to feeling like you're being tackled by us as a group.

You have a different mindset and view than we do, we are keen to hear it in a rational, logical and reasonable debate. We have had several nasty pieces of work coming in and making the pro-life crowd look absolutely ridiculous, and why? Because it's the unpopular mindset, trolling as pro-life will have infinite more effect than trolling as pro-choice.

This negative experience has admittedly made us less tolerant of such views. It's difficult to try to hold a reasonable debate or discussion whilst trolls drop in and out of the conversation, as I'm sure you know.

We welcome any points you make and are happy to dissect them and discuss them, with the assumption that you would do the same for us.

I do not want to discourage any pro-lifers from a legitimate, educated discussion. I just don't want trolls is all.

I do need a break after a while as one is just repeating themselves over and over and over again, and one knows what certain people thinks, one knows no one is changing their opinion and when it gets to that point, it makes things stale and a break is needed, which is probably better for the thread too.

robarmstrong

RobertKK wrote: »

I do need a break after a while as one is just repeating themselves over and over and over again, and one knows what certain people thinks, one knows no one is changing their opinion and when it gets to that point, it makes things stale and a break is needed, which is probably better for the thread too.

Robert, to be frank you've deflected heavily when questions have been made your way. It's the deflection that frustrates those who are genuinely curious of your answers.

Take for example earlier in the previous thread, I sought and sought a straight answer from a pro-lifer, a simple yes or no, and all I got was deflection, deflection and wait, even more deflection?

I can sense your frustration and I can most certainly relate to it, but do you not see our frustration? We have not and will not deflect questions you ask of us, so why do pro-life deflect questions we ask of them?

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

So Regina says her pro-life views were ignorant. The same prolife views that so many people in Ireland still have...

No she said that it was ignorant for her personal view on abortion, which she does not support, to deny women the choice to make their own decisions.

Really trying to have an intelligent conversation here but your misrepresenting what she said, and your ignoring the fact that a statement you made about why the current thread poll results are in favour of repeal is incorrect.

alan partridge aha

RobertKK wrote: »

robarmstrong wrote: »

Also Robert - there's no need for you to run from the thread due to feeling like you're being tackled by us as a group.

You have a different mindset and view than we do, we are keen to hear it in a rational, logical and reasonable debate. We have had several nasty pieces of work coming in and making the pro-life crowd look absolutely ridiculous, and why? Because it's the unpopular mindset, trolling as pro-life will have infinite more effect than trolling as pro-choice.

This negative experience has admittedly made us less tolerant of such views. It's difficult to try to hold a reasonable debate or discussion whilst trolls drop in and out of the conversation, as I'm sure you know.

We welcome any points you make and are happy to dissect them and discuss them, with the assumption that you would do the same for us.

I do not want to discourage any pro-lifers from a legitimate, educated discussion. I just don't want trolls is all.

I do need a break after a while as one is just repeating themselves over and over and over again, and one knows what certain people thinks, one knows no one is changing their opinion and when it gets to that point, it makes things stale and a break is needed, which is probably better for the thread too.

Follow the money trail Robert. Abortion is big business

robarmstrong

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Follow the money trail Robert. Abortion is big business

So you've nothing meaningful or intelligent to contribute but rather dangle the bait by posting something you know is going to stir an emotional response?

Cool.

alan partridge aha

robarmstrong wrote: »

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Follow the money trail Robert. Abortion is big business

So you've nothing meaningful or intelligent to contribute but rather dangle the bait by posting something you know is going to stir an emotional response?

Cool.

If I have said something that is incorrect point it out.

robarmstrong

alan partridge aha wrote: »

If I have said something that is incorrect point it out.

How is abortion big business? Please, elaborate.

RobertKK

robarmstrong wrote: »

It's just guessing.. Then you go on to make your own guess?

Right.

I just think one can't be sure, when I was a lot younger I use to troll on forums, about 15 to 16 years ago, you would be amazed how easy it is to join a forum with a plan on what persona you wanted, and then put yourself into that persona on the forum and post stuff one doesn't believe, but their persona does and really get into that persona and be convincing.
That was wrong to do, but some people act on the stage, TV or silver screen, others online.
No one can be sure of anyone new on a forum, one only gains the trust of others over time. Some can be too trusting that such a person is genuine in their position, people can put themselves into a different persona to get a reaction out of people.
If one wants to do that, then we know which side will generate the biggest reaction.

alan partridge aha

robarmstrong wrote: »

alan partridge aha wrote: »

If I have said something that is incorrect point it out.

How is abortion big business? Please, elaborate.[/quot

It's a multi million industry in UK

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

No she said that it was ignorant for her personal view on abortion, which she does not support, to deny women the choice to make their own decisions.

Really trying to have an intelligent conversation here but your misrepresenting what she said, and your ignoring the fact that a statement you made about why the current thread poll results are in favour of repeal is incorrect.

But her previous personal view which she said was ignorant is the same view that many others hold.
You can't separate that. Either she sees that view as ignorant or she doesn't.

robarmstrong

RobertKK wrote: »

I just think one can't be sure, when I was a lot younger I use to troll on forums, about 15 to 16 years ago, you would be amazed how easy it is to join a forum with a plan on what persona you wanted, and then put yourself into that persona on the forum and post stuff one doesn't believe, but their persona does and really get into that persona and be convincing.
That was wrong to do, but some people act on the stage, TV or silver screen, others online.
No one can be sure of anyone new on a forum, one only gains the trust of others over time. Some can be too trusting that such a person is genuine in their position, people can put themselves into a different persona to get a reaction out of people.
If one wants to do that, then we know which side will generate the biggest reaction.

But can you honestly tell me that you believe the individuals banned for trolling weren't actually trolling? I'm open to hear all views Robert but come on, one was suggesting that a woman be forced to continue a pregnancy conceived from rape and wouldn't hear or acknowledge any different, can you honestly tell me that was a legit view, or something said to stir up the tempers?

I've had a very brief interaction with a pro-lifer (at least I think he is) by the name of Outlaw Pete and he agrees with abortion to some extent (extreme circumstances, rape, incest, etc).

In a thread and discussion that's gone on this long, how on earth has there been such a brief yet intelligent discussion?