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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #6002
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I thought one of the issues was more abortions = less people, what with the 'one out of five pregnancies terminated' fallacy? So surely less people = less demand for doctors. And less demand for doctors = shortage of doctors goes down.

    This 'no' logic seems to be stumbling over itself quite a bit. :confused:

    From prime time.
    1500 more doctors currently needed.
    1500 are retiring soon.
    Country is training about 180 a year with many saying they will move abroad.
    So even with less under 6’s there will be far less doctors around.


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    #6003
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    RobertKK wrote: »
    From prime time.
    1500 more doctors currently needed.
    1500 are retiring soon.
    Country is training about 180 a year with many saying they will move abroad.
    So even with less under 6’s there will be far less doctors around.
    Which has fcuk all to do with repealing the evil 8th or denying Irish women their rights.


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    #6004
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    RobertKK wrote: »
    From prime time.
    1500 more doctors currently needed.
    1500 are retiring soon.
    Country is training about 180 a year with many saying they will move abroad.
    So even with less under 6’s there will be far less doctors around.

    It's a very pressing issue with nothing to do with repealing the 8th. The health system in this country has been outrageously mismanaged for decades and is creaking at every level. If hospitals were the proposed front line for providing abortion there'd be similarly terrible statistics about them.


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    #6005
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Then Simon Harris and the yes side think family doctors will be at the frontline for their new shiny abortion regime, when things like free doctors visits for under 6’s already has the system in trouble.

    This has very little to do with repealing the 8th which, as many people on this thread have explained to you, affects women who WANT to be pregnant too. Abortion is a part of this discussion, but alas you and your cohort want to make it not just the primary focus, but the sole one.

    However even from a statistical perspective your nonsense here sounds like quite a desperate clutching at straws. The majority of women who find themselves pregnant go to their doctor ANYWAY....

    "The Maternity and Infant Care Scheme provides an agreed programme of care to all expectant mothers who are ordinarily resident in Ireland. This service is provided by a family doctor (GP) of your choice and a hospital obstetrician. You are entitled to this service even if you do not have a medical card."

    ...... so if medical abortion were to come to Ireland there is little reason to expect that there would be MORE visits to such doctors than there is already. It will be exactly the same as it is now. Women going to their doctor to announce the pregnancy and consider their options going forward. There could however now be one more option on the table for SOME of them that was not there before.

    So by all means explain to us how women who would have been going to their doctor ANYWAY will by seeking abortion place MORE stress on the system? Your arithmetic seems way off.


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    #6006
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    From prime time.
    1500 more doctors currently needed.
    1500 are retiring soon.
    Country is training about 180 a year with many saying they will move abroad.
    So even with less under 6’s there will be far less doctors around.
    But with 20% of potential new births being aborted as the no side want us to believe, there will be considerably less strain that with those 20% being born. This is undeniable, and is entirely the argument of the no side.


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    #6007
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    What I'm saying is that people choose whether or not to be sexually active and that carries inherent risks.
    Please excuse if asked/ answered already, i’ve fallen a bit behind here.

    We have a poster on here who is married, has children, and has a 5% chance of death and a 20% chance of serious impact to health if she gets pregnant. Should she not have sex with her husband until she finishes menopause, which could be 10-15 years?


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    #6008
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Watching prime time. Not enough family doctors and heading towards a 3,000 shortage of doctors. People finding it hard to get doctors to take on new patients. People having to wait to see their doctors as they find it hard to get an appointment.
    Then Simon Harris and the yes side think family doctors will be at the frontline for their new shiny abortion regime, when things like free doctors visits for under 6’s already has the system in trouble.

    Yeah, let's keep sending them to Britain instead! Oh, wait...
    One of the main UK hospitals offering abortion services to Irish women in cases of fatal foetal abnormality has scaled back access due to staffing issues.

    The Liverpool Women’s NHS Foundation Trust has limited services to those between 16 and 20 weeks pregnant whose babies have been diagnosed with having a chromosome abnormality.

    This period is problematic as it comes before anomaly scans are usually carried out in Ireland – generally at about 20 weeks – potentially identifying problems including structural conditions such as absent kidneys, heart defects and anencephaly.


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    #6009
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Believe what you will but this is the first time I've participated in a conversation in this detail, on on this issue.

    Carefully worded to not be technically false but you were fairly clearly pro-life two months ago judging by your posts on the first thread.

    Perhaps while you're up on that fence (which you're definitely not lying about being on) you can call people disingenuous and accuse them of putting up a facade again.


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    #6010
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Watching prime time. Not enough family doctors and heading towards a 3,000 shortage of doctors. People finding it hard to get doctors to take on new patients. People having to wait to see their doctors as they find it hard to get an appointment.
    Then Simon Harris and the yes side think family doctors will be at the frontline for their new shiny abortion regime, when things like free doctors visits for under 6’s already has the system in trouble.

    Yeah an average of 5 or 6 extra appointments per GP per year is really going to break the system. You really didnt think this through did you?


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    #6011
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    I'm having an absolute gem of a time schooling two pro-lifers on a Facebook status, goes on to shame abortion - openly uses contraceptives.....

    Abortion happens because someone doesn't want to be pregnant.
    Contraception is used because someone doesn't want to be pregnant.

    Logic is absolutely LOST on these two.

    More than happy to PM a link to show what kind of people there are out there that are so ridiculously uninformed and so poorly educated on this sensitive matter.


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    #6012
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Misael Echoing Horse wrote: »
    Carefully worded to not be technically false but you were fairly clearly pro-life two months ago judging by your posts on the first thread.

    Perhaps while you're up on that fence (which you're definitely not lying about being on) you can call people disingenuous and accuse them of putting up a facade again.

    Like bubblypop, I had given the poster the benefit of the doubt... that'll teach me to do background checks beforehand!


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    #6013
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Erica is posting here regularly. She has given long and detailed posts on her stance, and her history. The other poster has contributed absolutely nothing except the random "Save the 8th" comments.

    Wouldn't be to worried about Anne Frank, he/she is just dropping in from giving out about Muslims, feminists and gays in other threads.

    Always struck me as a strange name to be using given what the real Anne Frank went through, which at the time was legal based on the law of the land.


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    #6014
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    kylith wrote: »
    Please excuse if asked/ answered already, i’ve fallen a bit behind here.

    We have a poster on here who is married, has children, and has a 5% chance of death and a 20% chance of serious impact to health if she gets pregnant. Should she not have sex with her husband until she finishes menopause, which could be 10-15 years?

    Excuse me if asked/answered already but are you advocating abortion as a form of contraception???


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    #6015
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Excuse me if asked/answered already but are you advocating abortion as a form of contraception???

    Abortion is not a form of contraception.

    Do you think it is? If so, my next post to you is going to be very, very educational.


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    #6016
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Excuse me if asked/answered already but are you advocating abortion as a form of contraception???

    abortion cannot be used as contraception seeing as contraception prevents pregnancy.


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    #6017
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Abortion is not a form of contraception.

    Do you think it is? If so, my next post to you is going to be very, very educational.

    Some people seem to think so.


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    #6018
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Some people seem to think so.

    Which people and what makes you think so?


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    #6019
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Some people seem to think so.

    Only the dimwits in Iona-Youth Defence-Cora Sherlock appreciation Society actually think or are trying to get others to believe that anyone is advocating termination as a form of contraception.


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    #6020
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Some people seem to think so.

    Literally no one thinks that.


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    #6021
    thee glitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Billy86 wrote: »
    But with 20% of potential new births being aborted as the no side want us to believe, there will be considerably less strain that with those 20% being born. This is undeniable, and is entirely the argument of the no side.

    Zappone's gonna make up the numbers by giving out baby boxes.


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    #6022
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    * as a form of birth control, so


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    #6023
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Some people seem to think so.

    Those people would be wrong, are you one of those people?


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    #6024
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pleas advice wrote: »
    * as a form of birth control, so

    the practice of preventing unwanted pregnancies?
    obviously not!


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    #6025
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    pleas advice wrote: »
    * as a form of birth control, so

    https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control

    Interesting, I don't see abortion as a form of birth control in here, so...


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    #6026
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    This issue is not high on people's agenda really. I reckon most people acknowledge that abortion pills are happening here every day of the week. And that will not change at all.

    So the issue then is, FFA. Compassion is required really. Walk in those parents shoes.


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    #6027
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    I have no words.

    30729956_830923910429021_7405785518350270464_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=ceb94bbf0efb1a182b2210b1d6b632d3&oe=5B64FE8B


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    #6028
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Excuse me if asked/answered already but are you advocating abortion as a form of contraception???

    You answer the question I’ve asked first, please.


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    #6029
    Neddyusa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    AtomicHorror wrote: »

    You'll get respect so long as you show willingness to move from dogmatic positions to factual ones!

    So you hold no respect for humans who hold differing opinions to you...

    The poster respectfully gave her opinions - you don't respect them and sneeringly belittle her.

    Interestingly Repeal campaigners repeatedly play the man rather the ball when it comes to "debate".

    Speaks volumes.


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    #6030
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    I have no words.

    Indeed, next you'll be saying every sperm is sacred


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    #6031
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    kylith wrote: »
    Please excuse if asked/ answered already, i’ve fallen a bit behind here.

    We have a poster on here who is married, has children, and has a 5% chance of death and a 20% chance of serious impact to health if she gets pregnant. Should she not have sex with her husband until she finishes menopause, which could be 10-15 years?
    Misael Echoing Horse wrote: »
    Which people and what makes you think so?

    Contraceptive pill, husband could have tubes tied.


This discussion has been closed.
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