The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

captbarnacles

ELM327 wrote: »

There's already well over 250 million americans. He doesn't need to create more.

Those 'arguments' he just made as nutty as they are could nearly word for word have been used against contraception....

BarleySweets

RobertKK wrote: »

Trust women is just a slogan. I trust women I know I can trust, I trust men I know I can trust, I don't trust strangers simply because it is a slogan used in a campaign.
I trust who I feel I can trust, I don't trust women who want to ignore the lives of the unborn as if they don't exist.

Thanks for answering, finally! It’s great to see how your mind works. You’ve got a lot of trust issues, seemingly!

Must be so difficult for you, knowing that random people who you don’t know require your intervention in their own decision making processes, depending on if you trust them or not. Your service to humanity is admirable!

horseburger

robarmstrong wrote: »

Quick one for you, I know you weren't involved but I'd like your thoughts on comparison if you wouldn't mind.

Is this - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106761098&postcount=6257 an accurate depiction of what a 12 week fetus looks like?

I don't think it resembles the real deal, do you? http://i.imgur.com/1OK22HS.jpg

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

Cabaal

RobertKK wrote: »

Trust women is just a slogan. I trust women I know I can trust, I trust men I know I can trust, I don't trust strangers simply because it is a slogan used in a campaign.
I trust who I feel I can trust, I don't trust women who want to ignore the lives of the unborn as if they don't exist.

So tell me, do you think women should be banned from travelling to the UK for abortions?

Do you think the 13th and 14th amendments should be repealed?

You think abortion is wrong so unless you answer yes to the above questions then you are nothing more then yet another pro life hypocrite... Happy to export our health issues rather then face them.

Triceratops Ballet

RobertKK wrote: »

Being unborn is just one stage of life. It is as important as all the other stages of life for the human being and for all the human race.
If it was not just as important as a born life, otherwise we could have 100% abortion given we are told it is a woman's choice and if all women did for the sake of the argument, we could pretend it would have no consequences, even with one fifth to one sixth of pregnancies aborted in many western countries it is having a negative impact on society as each year the number of missing people from abortion grows in that society. The irony is immigration is then needed from regions with higher birth rates to fill jobs since the ratio of dependent people in society becomes a bigger burden on society as there are less younger people to do the jobs and pay taxes as the older generations retire, one consequence of smaller families is the rise in the retirement age.
This lack of taxpayers leads to immigration being needed to fill the hole of the missing people which takes people who could maybe help their own country to another where the pay is better and standards of living higher.
People can see the effect of immigration on politics in Europe with the rise of the far right and very right wing parties.
The societal effects of abortion are clear, it is negative and that non sentient human life is vital to all of humanity. If we decided to just kill all non sentient human in any form, we would go extinct. Some treat it as if it is not vital to mankind.

So are you saying then a foetus and a woman need to have equal rights to life for economic reasons? The world needs more people and that is justification enough for a foetus and a woman to be considered equal in law in your eyes?
Women were put on this earth to have babies and they can just lump it if they don't want to?
If I'm wrong please explain it to me

RobertKK

captbarnacles wrote: »

Shut up and get on with it women. We need your unwanted pregnancies to populate our country.

What are you doing about this Robert? find a like minded woman and procreate immediately. Our survival depends on it.

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

optogirl

horseburger wrote: »

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

but what about if it IS causing risk to the life of the mother? The 8th is still in the way.

BarleySweets

reubenreuben wrote: »

What are you on my good fellow?

At the very least, I’d imagine he’s on Iona’s pay-per-post scheme earning a handy commission for every one of his responses.

robarmstrong

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

That's not what I asked, no deflections here.

Do you think that the image RobertKK posted is an exact representation of what an actual 12 week fetus (the one I posted for reference) looks like, yes or no?

That's the question I asked, I didn't ask for a whole spiel behind it, I asked if you thought it was accurate. Why deflect?

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

which certain practices?
where are abortion rates a problem?

Triceratops Ballet

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

let's say that's all fair enough, what do you want to do with women who are pregnant and don't want to be?

captbarnacles

horseburger wrote: »

But the problem I have about justifying it to be aborted, is, that at either stage depicted in the photos, it is developing and growing before pregnancy.

Both photos display human characteristics, and evidence of human development.

Why can't it all be considered part of its human development no different to the way any of us grow and develop, before and after we are born.

We all develop through life, and gain different abilities, as we grow.

Considering that we all gain abilities as we grow, before and after we are born, how can it be argued that because it is at an earlier stage of development, that it is ok to end its life, if it is healthy, and the pregnancy isn't causing a risk to the life of the mother?

For me simply because it is dependent on the person carrying it and that person has complete control of everything that happens to their body.

That is just me my own particular view and it is different to a lot of pro-choice posters on here. The arguments on humanity etc are not relevant to my view although I understand the line of reasoning that Noz and others have on it.

Cabaal

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

Care to give an example if such a country that shares the same type of government, economy etc as Ireland?

Or are you just going to pull such claims out of your backside without facts and figures from reliable, respected sources?

Maybe you can pick one of those country's where a woman can jailed for having a miss carriage because of the crazy strict laws pro life people lobbied for? Too awkward perhaps?

BarleySweets

Cabaal wrote: »

So tell me, do you think women should be banned from travelling to the UK for abortions?

Do you think the 13th and 14th amendments should be repealed?

You think abortion is wrong so unless you answer yes to the above questions then you are nothing more then yet another pro life hypocrite... Happy to export our health issues rather then face them.

You know what, RobertKK has convinced me. He’s right about everything, all his facts make too much sense to be wrong! In fact, forget about banning women from traveling to the UK, I now think that women should be banned from traveling outside of the kitchen unless it’s to the maternity ward. Can’t wait to tell my fiancé all about my new viewpoint when I get home from work, this is so exciting!

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kylith

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

is Ireland one of those places?

FutureGuy

A small group in Limerick put up the first posters at the weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/180753015904821/?hc_ref=ARTep0_STXpr6pTYkjdnoDUSXE9QgnPh3C28ufe_2gjsOYufWcsNwb_YEpg0uRUlTHU

BarleySweets

optogirl wrote: »

but what about if it IS causing risk to the life of the mother? The 8th is still in the way.

No no no, don’t ask about stuff like that publicly. They only trust you if you agree with their views on the unborn’s right to life. So therefore, in order to earn their trust and respect, you should pretend to agree with them publicly and only seek/offer info about abortion in private.

What they seem to want women to do is: to lie to their faces and do what you want in private. Because let’s face it, their assumptions about what women do in private are far worse than the craziest fetishes that the kinkiest people I’ve met would even dream of.

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FutureGuy

A small group in Limerick put up the first posters at the weekend.

Didn't take too long.

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/180753015904821/?hc_ref=ARTep0_STXpr6pTYkjdnoDUSXE9QgnPh3C28ufe_2gjsOYufWcsNwb_YEpg0uRUlTHU

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ohnonotgmail

RobertKK wrote: »

Being unborn is just one stage of life. It is as important as all the other stages of life for the human being and for all the human race.
If it was not just as important as a born life, otherwise we could have 100% abortion given we are told it is a woman's choice and if all women did for the sake of the argument, we could pretend it would have no consequences, even with one fifth to one sixth of pregnancies aborted in many western countries it is having a negative impact on society as each year the number of missing people from abortion grows in that society. The irony is immigration is then needed from regions with higher birth rates to fill jobs since the ratio of dependent people in society becomes a bigger burden on society as there are less younger people to do the jobs and pay taxes as the older generations retire, one consequence of smaller families is the rise in the retirement age.
This lack of taxpayers leads to immigration being needed to fill the hole of the missing people which takes people who could maybe help their own country to another where the pay is better and standards of living higher.
People can see the effect of immigration on politics in Europe with the rise of the far right and very right wing parties.
The societal effects of abortion are clear, it is negative and that non sentient human life is vital to all of humanity. If we decided to just kill all non sentient human in any form, we would go extinct. Some treat it as if it is not vital to mankind.

Missing people?? So if one woman is using contraception and doesnt get pregnant and another woman is also using contraception but the contraception fails and she has an abortion then that aborted foetus is somehow a "missing person"? I've read some nonsense on boards but this takes the biscuit.

ohnonotgmail

RobertKK wrote: »

There are many cases around the world where abortion rates and certain practices are a recognised problem.

"certain practices"?

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applehunter

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BarleySweets

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Hate to be the “actually” guy but abortion is legal in all Middle Eastern countries. In fact, in all Muslim countries. It might be taboo amongst religious types, in a similar way to how it’s taboo here, but abortion is available in all Muslim countries on a much broader basis than it is in Ireland.

captbarnacles

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"certain practices"?

"Contraception"

Robbing the world of people for centuries.

BarleySweets

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"certain practices"?

I wonder if he means “shoving a hanger up your hole can be dangerous”, when he says “certain practices”. As if any of the poor girls who had to do that back in the day had a choice due to the 8th being such a restrictive constitutional amendment, no less!

ELM327

captbarnacles wrote: »

"Contraception"

Robbing the world of people for centuries.

So does wearing sandals with socks, should we make wearing those illegal too! :P:P

captbarnacles

Robertkk actually wants unplanned and accidental pregnancies.

I always thought the Catholic obsession with abstinence only sex education was to preserve sex for marriage but nope! it's to boost the population!!