Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Options
1…236237239241242…325

Comments

  • Options
    #7142
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    But at what stage do you think it has a right to life?

    Birth. I thought the poster made that pretty clear.


  • Options
    #7143
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Apparently it's just a clump of cells up to 12 weeks, so any child lost before that due to miscarriage or abortion was only an idea of a child, and not actually a child going by what has been written on this very forum.

    It isn't a child until it is born. Seriously, you can look up the law and everything.


  • Options
    #7144
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Apparently it's just a clump of cells up to 12 weeks, so any child lost before that due to miscarriage or abortion was only an idea of a child, and not actually a child going by what has been written on this very forum.

    That's the truth. It doesn't mean someone doesn't have the right to grieve for what could have been though.


  • Options
    #7145
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Apparently it's just a clump of cells up to 12 weeks, so any child lost before that due to miscarriage or abortion was only an idea of a child, and not actually a child going by what has been written on this very forum.

    You seem to be a fan of the melodramatics. If that is how that person chose to deal with their loss and grieve for it, you have no right to make a cheap shot by using it to passive aggressively make a point.

    And anyway, he's correct. The government do not consider any baby lost before 22 weeks to be citizens because they do not authorise birth or death certs for these babies. Its like the never existed.
    And I know the reality of this all to well so please, spare me the passive aggressive reply that I know is coming my way.


  • Options
    #7146
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    If you prolifers want the law to say a fetus is a human being, an actual child, you are going to need a new amendment.

    And if you think the 8th had unexpected effects, your new amendment would have 10 times more.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7147
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,348 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    But at what stage do you think it has a right to life?

    Answering for me personally..... I think as soon as we have any inclination the faculty of human sentience and consciousness has in any way come into the equation, we should stop just seeing it as a human entity biologically and start seeing it as a human person too.
    AnneFrank wrote: »
    any child lost before that due to miscarriage or abortion was only an idea of a child, and not actually a child going by what has been written on this very forum.

    Not just by what is written on this forum, but by the lights of many other documents and sources too.

    In the grief and trauma counselling of women who have had miscarriages for example we very much do work with models of the differences between the concept of having "lost a baby" and having "lost a pregnancy".

    Even mere recourse to a dictionary will give you definitions of the word "child" that do not fit with what a fetus is. Nor does the process of how we work with birth and death certificates suggest anything of the sort either.

    So no, your attempt to paint this as some narrative people on this forum are somehow coming up with is a disingenuous and distortion move.


  • Options
    #7148
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    If you prolifers want the law to say a fetus is a human being, an actual child, you are going to need a new amendment.

    And if you think the 8th had unexpected effects, your new amendment would have 10 times more.

    childrens allowance for all pregnant women?


  • Options
    #7149
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    AnneFrank wrote: »
    Apparently it's just a clump of cells up to 12 weeks, so any child lost before that due to miscarriage or abortion was only an idea of a child, and not actually a child going by what has been written on this very forum.

    Exactly, a childless woman who has a miscarriage is not a mother of one. Not by the letter of the law anyway.

    You lose a potential life.


  • Options
    #7150
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    January wrote: »
    Birth. I thought the poster made that pretty clear.

    What they said was it it's not a child until it is born but at what stage do they believe a foetus should have a right to life?


  • Options
    #7151
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    But at what stage do you think it has a right to life?
    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    What they said was it it's not a child until it is born but at what stage do they believe a foetus should have a right to life?

    Answered already.
    Birth.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7152
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    What they said was it it's not a child until it is born but at what stage do they believe a foetus should have a right to life?

    When it is born and/or is viable to live outside the womb, which is usually around 22 weeks gestation.


  • Options
    #7153
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    childrens allowance for all pregnant women?
    Actually, since your gestation time is counted since date of last menstrual period and not date of fertilization/implantation it could be argued that all women are theoretically pregnant as for the 2 weeks before ovulation it's counted as being pregnant if you get pregnant at ovulation.


  • Options
    #7154
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The "life " you are talking about IS someone else's pregnancy.

    And don't call me Shirley.

    Pregnancy is a state of being not a thing.


  • Options
    #7155
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Answered already.
    Birth.

    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?


  • Options
    #7156
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Pregnancy is a state of being not a thing.

    I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Can you please explain why you feel you have a right to have input and an opinion on the pregnancy of a woman you have never met?
    How do you justify that?


  • Options
    #7157
    BarleySweets
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭BarleySweets


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    What they said was it it's not a child until it is born but at what stage do they believe a foetus should have a right to life?

    Birth is when they said the child’s right to life begins! Stop twisting their words.


  • Options
    #7158
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    What about FGM, that happens in otter countries should we legislate for that in Ireland also?
    I fail to understand the argument that just because everybody else is doing it we should be doing it also.

    Legislate for it to happen? where is it legislated for?

    We should definitely have legislation prohibiting FGM (or GM of any kind really) if we don't already.

    I don't understand the argument that we can't offer health care services to our citizens because of how they are operated in another country

    What will you say to the couples who have to travel if the repeal fails?


  • Options
    #7159
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?
    No one is in favour of abortion.
    Legally a foetus 5 minutes before birth is not a person, it is a foetus nearing the end of its gestation.


  • Options
    #7160
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Can you please explain why you feel you have a right to have input and an opinion on the pregnancy of a woman you have never met?
    How do you justify that?


    the baby jesus told them they could.


  • Options
    #7161
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    BarleySweets wrote: »
    Birth is when they said the child’s right to life begins! Stop twisting their words.
    Par for the course with the birthpolice unfortunately


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7162
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,001 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the baby jesus told them they could.
    Interestingly only the Catholic baby Jesus.
    The Protestant one was against the 8th in 1983.


  • Options
    #7163
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Birth.
    Medically it is a foetus (that's how we spell it in Ireland, cowboy), until birth.
    Legally it is not a person until birth.

    But at what stage do you think it has a right to life?
    Ooh
    More " I'm so innocent looking for help" questions
    A la Iona Youth Offence handbook
    Laughing myself silly at you


  • Options
    #7164
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    Pregnancy is a state of being not a thing.
    It's both.
    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?
    Pregnancies are terminated 5 minutes, or a day, or a week, before term all the time. It's called induction and it leads to a live baby.


  • Options
    #7165
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Actually, since your gestation time is counted since date of last menstrual period and not date of fertilization/implantation it could be argued that all women are theoretically pregnant as for the 2 weeks before ovulation it's counted as being pregnant if you get pregnant at ovulation.

    schrodingers pregnancy!


  • Options
    #7166
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?

    You aren't the first to use such extremities to try to prove a point.

    You are mixing up terminating pregnancies and abortions.
    Terminating a pregnancy means the baby is delivered early.
    If the woman's health is at risk, or the baby is having issues and its the day/week/month before her due date, the baby is delivered early to alleviate risks. I am in favour of this.

    Late term abortions only occur in heartbreaking circumstances, where either the baby will not live.
    It isn't simply a case of a woman being 8 months pregnant and deciding to pack it in & head off to the clinic cos she's had enough of the heartburn and cravings.

    You must have a very poor and low opinion of women if you think they will go around aborting full term pregnancies willy nilly just for lols.

    Regardless, the limit for on request abortion will be only 12 weeks anyway so your point is invalid.
    Late term abortions are devastating for all involved and you are downplaying the heartbreak they cause by using them to prove your point.


  • Options
    #7167
    BarleySweets
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭BarleySweets


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Interestingly only the Catholic baby Jesus.
    The Protestant one was against the 8th in 1983.

    I wouldn’t tar all Protestants with the same brush. The prods up north and from the USA are both fanatical about life beginning at conception and have been major financial contributors to a lot of Save the 8th campaigns in Ireland over the years.


  • Options
    #7168
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Answered already.
    Birth.

    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?
    You need to take some Senakot
    Cure your constipation


  • Options
    #7169
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Can you please explain why you feel you have a right to have input and an opinion on the pregnancy of a woman you have never met?
    How do you justify that?

    It's not an opinion it's a fact. Pregnancy is a state of being, it is not a thing.


  • Options
    #7170
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    ELM327 wrote: »
    Answered already.
    Birth.

    So five minutes before a child is born, you would be in favour of abortion?
    You need to take some Senakot
    Cure your constipation
    Ah da poor babby jezus
    He told them to abuse the durty huzzies
    Starve their durty bastard brats and then **** them their bodies in septic tank
    Great lad that babby jezus
    Ah God be with the hood ol days


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7171
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Rogelio Tinkling Cue wrote: »
    It's not an opinion it's a fact. Pregnancy is a state of being, it is not a thing.

    no pregnant is a state of being, pregnancy is the duration of time for which a woman is pregnant


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement