The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

January

Ah lads, ye all know what BlahBlah is doing, just report his posts and stop feeding it.

Blahblah2012

pitifulgod wrote: »

You're not exactly conducting yourself with maturity around the topic.

I just don't agree with KILLING BABIES

amcalester

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Noné of your business

May not be any of my business but I’m not sure I’m overly interested listening to your faux moral outrage when you enjoy beastality.

Blahblah2012

amcalester wrote: »

May not be any of my business but I’m not sure I’m overly interested listening to your faux moral outrage when you enjoy beastality.

Good argument

BarleySweets

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

I don't think MURDERING BABIES ON DEMAND is a joking matter..

It’s not murdering babies. And Irish women do this every day regardless of how you intend to vote. You are not being asked to vote Yes to endorse abortion. A Yes vote simply means that you want Irish women to get the same service from Irish doctors instead of having to go to foreign countries’ doctors.

But right now, due to the 8th, they need to travel to foreign countries. Vote Yes to repeal the 8 so that they can use their local doctor and get the medical attention the need right here in Ireland instead of having to go to a foreign country.

amcalester

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Good argument ðŸ‘

Thanks.

We’ve had horseburger now we have horsefúcker.

Sofiztikated

thee glitz wrote: »

Your situation is easy to sympathise with. Ideally, there would be recognition of various levels of 'needing' an abortion. Indeed there are, but only after a nominal 12 weeks. I believe there would be strong support for allowing your partner, or any woman, to have an abortion carried out in the case of an inevitable miscarriage. The thing is though that that's not being prioritised - abortion on demand has been offered as the consequence of repealing the 8th and it's entirely disgraceful that this is so given the level of opposition to it.

To be honest, I don't view robs reasons for wanting access to abortion any different to a girl finding herself pregnant and not being in a position to bring a child into this world. Their reasons are not really for you to judge the levels of "need"

Which would you rather, she access it here, under safe means*, or do it under unsafe means? Because like it or not, some are going to do it anyway, as history shows.

*There's always a risk with any procedure or medicinal intervention.

Smertrius

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

I just don't agree with KILLING BABIES

you are killing baby anyway when woman can't afford the child or she is a teenager

Blahblah2012

amcalester wrote: »

Thanks.

We’ve had horseburger now we have horsefúcker.

Clever

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

3 years since your last post ( SSM referendum )

Do you just "tell it like it is" for referendums ?]

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

I do yeah..dig deep much?

Some people get paid for that sort of thing - posting in voting and referendum threads

Some sad sacks do it for free - eventually dawns on them they were absolutely r∅de

Zubeneschamali

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

Just telling it as it is.

A quick peek at your posting history shows you telling it like it was all over the SSM referendum, too.

Inquitus

Toastytoes wrote: »

Cos that’s exactly what happens if a woman goes to her go to request the abortion pill. There’s loads of crushing, grinding, hoovering.

No camp peddling lies, what a shocker!

You were in the no camp for the marriage equality vote too. How are things back there in the dark ages?

The NO camp is utterly dishonest in this referendum, the posters, the materials. It's quite shocking to see the level of lies and deceit they are willing to ply us with on this one, at least it has shocked me.

Smertrius

you say ireland is free country there is no free will when you say no to this

Zerbini Blewitt

pleas advice wrote: »

Do you trust women from England and Wales? Where there is more than one abortion for every four live births.

So, implied in your question:- abortion is an aberration that can somehow be stamped out! If so, this is a straightforward denial of human nature!

Regardless of any other way of looking at the whole abortion issue (as covered already here):- The genie never was in the bottle in the first place, in any country – ever!!

Most pregnant people who don’t want to be pregnant will find a way to terminate ASAP regardless of laws (e.g. they’ll use coat-hangers if that’s the only option left).
They always have throughout history and (for the foreseeable future) they always will, because it is the NORM. It’s well documented.

So draconian restrictions (like the 8th) only means more degradation, suffering and/or death for these unfortunate women.

It's like denying that deafness exists and then bringing in a law that says: “giving a person (who complains that they can’t hear much) a hearing aid shall be punishable by a 14 year prison sentence”.

Thus, the entire anti-choice position, at its core, comes across as a nature-denying fantasy.

Inquitus

Current bookies odds as we close in on polling day:

Smertrius

if child girl (someone under 18 ) get pregnant and you want her to keep up the pregnancy and she could die during childbirth or baby could die in mother womb.

thee glitz

BarleySweets wrote: »

He told you why already: due to the 8th, Irish doctors are bound to protect the life of the unborn over and above giving accurate information to the pregnant woman.

You've quoted my short and simple post, but apparently misread / haven't understood it.

In Rob’s wife’s case, even if they know she’s going to miscarry, they won’t tell her

No -

Rob wrote:

we were told no, she does not qualify to have an abortion as technically there was no FFA nor was there a threat to her health.

BarleySweets wrote:

That pain and plight is avoidable, but medical help is denied for her due to the 8th.

Would you prioritise abortion being made available for someone in this situation over general availability?

robarmstrong

Blahblah2012 wrote: »

I just don't agree with KILLING BABIES

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'd like your opinion on what I went through, I'd just like to hear your thoughts.

As previously stated my partner has a heart-shaped uterus and a medically diagnosed weak womb (there's a scientific medical name for it and I am sorry but it just escapes me right now!), basically, all of our miscarriages happened because the baby implanted in the "wrong spot" so to speak. I don't know if I should actually name the hospitals or not but we were told no, she does not qualify to have an abortion as technically there was no FFA nor was there a threat to her health.

If you're unsure of how it goes it's this - baby implants in an area that does not have enough room to support the growth of it, and it's amniotic sac, so when it reaches a certain size, it will rupture, so each and every single one of our previous pregnancies has been a gamble as to where they'd implant.

Do you think we should have been denied an abortion in those circumstances, knowing full well that even though that baby was healthy (technically) they would not survive past a certain point due to my partners medical issue?

So what's your opinion on the above? Gonna shame me for looking for an abortion?

Huntergonzo

Abortion is really a case of where people draw the line, I would have a serious issue with killing babies, but then again I'd say most of us do, however I don't consider a fetus a baby. I would put more value on the life of a fully grown woman than a growing life which is totally dependent on it's mother. And if a woman needs a late term termination, that should be at the discretion of the doctors, no woman in dire need of an abortion should be denied by an archaic law.

You often hear anti-abortionists claiming that 'life begins at concecption' but is this even true? I mean I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but surely that isn't technically the case, aren't sperm and eggs also alive? I mean 2 dead things don't come together to form a live thing or am I wide of the mark?

And surely this also means that anti-abortionists are staunchly against both ejaculation and women's periods.....I mean both events results in the loss of potential life, a monumental loss in some cases.

Just calling for consistency!

pleas advice

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Abortion is really a case of where people draw the line, I would have a serious issue with killing babies, but then again I'd say most of us do, however I don't consider a fetus a baby. I would put more value on the life of a fully grown woman than a growing life which is totally dependent on it's mother. And if a woman needs a late term termination, that should be at the discretion of the doctors, no woman in dire need of an abortion should be denied by an archaic law.

You often hear anti-abortionists claiming that 'life begins at concecption' but is this even true? I mean I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but surely that isn't technically the case, aren't sperm and eggs also alive? I mean 2 dead things don't come together to form a live thing or am I wide of the mark?

And surely this also means that anti-abortionists are staunchly against both ejaculation and women's periods.....I mean both events results in the loss of potential life, a monumental loss in some cases.

Just calling for consistency!

yes, you are well wide of the mark, a biologically separate human life begins at conception.

baylah17

pleas advice wrote: »

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Abortion is really a case of where people draw the line, I would have a serious issue with killing babies, but then again I'd say most of us do, however I don't consider a fetus a baby. I would put more value on the life of a fully grown woman than a growing life which is totally dependent on it's mother. And if a woman needs a late term termination, that should be at the discretion of the doctors, no woman in dire need of an abortion should be denied by an archaic law.

You often hear anti-abortionists claiming that 'life begins at concecption' but is this even true? I mean I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but surely that isn't technically the case, aren't sperm and eggs also alive? I mean 2 dead things don't come together to form a live thing or am I wide of the mark?

And surely this also means that anti-abortionists are staunchly against both ejaculation and women's periods.....I mean both events results in the loss of potential life, a monumental loss in some cases.

Just calling for consistency!

yes, you are well wide of the mark, a biologically separate human life begins at conception.

Nope
Not at all

nozzferrahhtoo

pleas advice wrote: »

yes, you are well wide of the mark, a biologically separate human life begins at conception.

Do you know the technical details of things like stem cell research and ivf and so forth? Or any other cutting edge biological sciences? Because there is very little unusual about us creating "biologically separate" entities with human DNA, fiddling around with them, and even destroying them.

What is it about a strand of DNA, even a partially unique one (actually the level of difference between one person's DNA and the next is not huge), that stimulates your obviously well meant moral and ethical concerns? And why do you think someone like myself and the many other pro choice people do not have that reaction? Clearly we are not ALL psychopaths. So perhaps there is a difference there that is open to introspection, discourse and reason.

Huntergonzo

pleas advice wrote: »

yes, you are well wide of the mark, a biologically separate human life begins at conception.

But are sperm and eggs not alive no?

If they're dead then fine I'll hold my hand up.

Huntergonzo

baylah17 wrote: »

Nope
Not at all

Yes, ah yes, be positive :-)

amdublin

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Abortion is really a case of where people draw the line, I would have a serious issue with killing babies, but then again I'd say most of us do, however I don't consider a fetus a baby. I would put more value on the life of a fully grown woman than a growing life which is totally dependent on it's mother. And if a woman needs a late term termination, that should be at the discretion of the doctors, no woman in dire need of an abortion should be denied by an archaic law.

You often hear anti-abortionists claiming that 'life begins at concecption' but is this even true? I mean I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but surely that isn't technically the case, aren't sperm and eggs also alive? I mean 2 dead things don't come together to form a live thing or am I wide of the mark?

And surely this also means that anti-abortionists are staunchly against both ejaculation and women's periods.....I mean both events results in the loss of potential life, a monumental loss in some cases.

Just calling for consistency!

Hey welcome to this discussion! You raise some very valid points

pleas advice

Huntergonzo wrote: »

But are sperm and eggs not alive no?

If they're dead then fine I'll hold my hand up.

they are 'alive' but they are not distinct human life, I mean, its basic biology...

Huntergonzo

amdublin wrote: »

Hey welcome to this discussion! You raise some very valid points

Thank you, I'm just trying to understand the logic of anti-abortionists.......no luck so far.

dudara

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Abortion is really a case of where people draw the line, I would have a serious issue with killing babies, but then again I'd say most of us do, however I don't consider a fetus a baby. I would put more value on the life of a fully grown woman than a growing life which is totally dependent on it's mother. And if a woman needs a late term termination, that should be at the discretion of the doctors, no woman in dire need of an abortion should be denied by an archaic law.

You often hear anti-abortionists claiming that 'life begins at concecption' but is this even true? I mean I'm speaking from a position of ignorance here but surely that isn't technically the case, aren't sperm and eggs also alive? I mean 2 dead things don't come together to form a live thing or am I wide of the mark?

And surely this also means that anti-abortionists are staunchly against both ejaculation and women's periods.....I mean both events results in the loss of potential life, a monumental loss in some cases.

Just calling for consistency!

To explore some of this further...

What about fertilised embryos as developed during IVF?
Morning after pill which prevents a fertilised egg from implanting
If abortion is wrong, why not call to prosecute and sentence women who have abortions?
Etc

The anti-choice side has just as many grey or fuzzy areas of logic as the pro-choice side, but they do not explore the grey areas or try to balance their priorities. If they did that, I believe their arguments would be more consistent and therefore compelling.

BTW, I have decided to no longer refer to the “No” campaign as “pro-life”. It is conferring them with a sense of greater moral superiority than they actually possess. Many people on the pro-choice side equally value human life.

For me it’s “pro-choice” or “anti-choice” or simply “Yes” / “No” from now on.

Huntergonzo

pleas advice wrote: »

they are 'alive' but they are not distinct human life, I mean, its basic biology...

But then, you're ending life by ejaculating (when not for procreation) and menstruating, surely you're against both these things no? I mean it would be pretty hypocritical if you weren't!!!

As a matter of interest, do you believe a fetus (such as those printed on No posters around Ireland) is a baby?

Smertrius

The anti-choice side has just as many grey or fuzzy areas of logic as the pro-choice side, but they do not explore the grey areas or try to balance their priorities. If they did that, I believe their arguments would be more consistent and therefore compelling.

BTW, I have decided to no longer refer to the “No” campaign as “pro-life”. It is conferring them with a sense of greater moral superiority than they actually possess. Many people on the pro-choice side equally value human life.

For me it’s “pro-choice” or “anti-choice” or simply “Yes” / “No” from now on.[/QUOTE] sometimes the pills or condemns dont work and woman is pregnant because the pills or condemns didn't work and her boyfriend dumbs her because she is pregnant