The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Annasopra

AnneFrank wrote: »

I disagree, she speaks for many people and many women.She's Pro life and all about traditional families.

Yes. She shames non traditional families. Disgraceful really.

Annasopra

horseburger wrote: »

You can debate an issue without bringing your religious, or agnostic, or humanist, or atheist beliefs, into the discussion.

I haven't heard her mention her religious beliefs into any of the live TV or radio debates in which she has participated on the issue of abortion.

She addresses religious events, for example she spoke in Knock last August, making an address on the issue of abortion. This was not a debate in that it wasn't one side against the other discussing the issue. She was speaking to people who are of the Catholic religion.

The suggestion that she is trying to ram her religious beliefs onto others, is unfair, I think, considering that when she speaks about issues like abortion, with a religious angle, it is in situations where the audience reading or listening, would be of the same religious belief and outlook.

For example her articles in The Irish Catholic, may include references to religious scripture, but in TV and radio discussions, where she is debating with a person whose perspective differs to hers in relation to religion, I haven't heard her emphasise her religious beliefs.

I haven't heard her bring her religious beliefs into any live TV or radio debate, in which I have heard her participating, with regard to the issue of abortion.

Her religious beliefs may get asked of her during a debate, but I think it is the case, that she doesn't bring it up, unless asked.

She wants her religious beliefs codified into law. This is ramming.

baylah17

seenitall wrote: »

So, she changed her mind on the 8th from 1983 to 2018?

Hopefully there are plenty more like her.

We know a lot more now
And the priest in the pulpit has less power

Bridge93

Haven't been in a church since I was about 10 for anything other than funerals and the like but my parents were saying the priest in the parish where I grew up has been telling parishioners to vote on their own gut, heart and head. No preaching of what the a Catholic Church hopes for, just that voting is an entirely private matter and this is a hugely emotive topic. Go vote how you see fit.

It wasnt me123

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have been weighing up the arguments for myself and I was open to "yes" but i'm falling on the "no" side here principally because I don't know what the term limit would be on abortion. Think this is a fatal flaw in the "yes" campaign. Still time for the "yes" side to convince me.

Terminations/abortions are not compulsory, what you are voting for is to repeal the 8th - not time limits for abortions. That will be in legislation. Either you believe its the woman's choice or not. Its actually very simple.

i think we have another No here pretending to be "on the fence" and then spends all their time picking holes in the Yes campaign.

A stranger is not going to change your mind - you need to do your own research, look at the InHer Shoes FB pages and see the heartbreak the 8th Amendment has caused.

Repeal all the way - trust women

Martina1991

amdublin wrote: »

"Nowhere else in medicine are we forced to withhold a safe procedure until someone is dying."
- Obstetric Doctor and Professor Louise Kenny

Right now, in Ireland a woman's life must be at risk before she can access an abortion. A blood infection can spread very quickly, it can and has killed women who were denied abortions when they needed one. We wouldn't accept this for any other person in need of medical attention, so why do we care so little for the lives of pregnant people?

Every person in Ireland who has the capacity to become pregnant is at risk from the 8th amendment. It is a dangerous law that has killed before and will kill again.

This is my main reason for being pro repeal.

Strangers having abortions has no direct effect on my life. I don't have the right to tell a woman what to do with her life.

But as I head into my late 20s and early 30s I know I will be contemplating having children.

Working in a hospital has made me so afraid of pregnancy. Women come in every day having miscarriages. Usually <12 weeks. The only ones who probably know are themselves and their partner.

Sometimes I think the general public or people who have never had a pregnancy are not aware of the risks involved.

I don't want mine, my sister's or my friends health held at ransom by this 8th f*cking amendment.

It wasnt me123

I admire all of you on the repeal continually try and debate and answer the same questions, over and over again.

I haven't the time or the inclincation. I have said all along it will be a 70 / 30 split for repeal. I just point out the so called "fence sitters" and then leave them off or block them, depending on my humour.

The 8th amendment has impacted most families in Ireland, either because a woman has had to go to the UK, or because a woman felt she had to continue with the pregnancy due to other factors but not necessarily her choice.

From 26th May women of Ireland will have choice and subsequently, appropriate medical assistance to help with any choice they make. Repeal is about Women having body autonomy and being able to draw on whatever medical assistance/counselling/support, IN IRELAND, that she needs for that body autonomy.

Sofiztikated

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have been weighing up the arguments for myself and I was open to "yes" but i'm falling on the "no" side here principally because I don't know what the term limit would be on abortion. Think this is a fatal flaw in the "yes" campaign. Still time for the "yes" side to convince me.

I assume you are up to speed on what a pregnancy can do to a woman?

Why should a woman have to put herself through it, if she doesn't want to? And don't come back with a 99% effective retort, because A) it's incorrect, and has been proven multiple times, and if you pointed a gun at someone, and there was a 1 in 100 chance of shooting them, would you shout "well it's 99% effective" at the poor **** you just shot?

And the data shows that no matter the term limits put on abortion, the vast majority accessing it do so before 12 weeks.

January

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I admire that you and others on the repeal continually try and debate and answer the same questions, over and over again.

I haven't the time or the inclincation. I have said all along it will be a 70 / 30 split for repeal. I just point out the so called "fence sitters" and then leave them off or block them, depending on my humour.

The 8th amendment has impacted most families in Ireland, either because a woman has had to go to the UK, or because a woman felt she had to continue with the pregnancy due to other factors but not necessarily her choice.

From 26th May women of Ireland will have choice and subsequently, appropriate medical assistance to help with any choice they make. Repeal is about Women having body autonomy and being able to draw on whatever medical assistance/counselling/support, IN IRELAND, that she needs for that body autonomy.

Do you remind removing the quote, I was wrong when I went back and looked it was a different poster!

Thanks for that by the way. I keep posting because there are people who haven't made their minds up and reading the lies and misinformation on this thread is heartbreaking.

pitifulgod

January wrote: »

Do you remind removing the quote, I was wrong when I went back and looked it was a different poster!

Thanks for that by the way. I keep posting because there are people who haven't made their minds up and reading the lies and misinformation on this thread is heartbreaking.

You're definitely one of the best posters in the thread. Imagine it isn't nice how certain posters treated you in the thread. It's refreshing to see more and more women feeling able to talk about it.

January

pitifulgod wrote: »

You're definitely one of the best posters in the thread. Imagine it isn't nice how certain posters treated you in the thread. It's refreshing to see more and more women feeling able to talk about it.

Ha, I wouldn't say I was anyway, sometimes I feel so frustrated because I can't get my point across as well as I want to. There's a lot of amazing eloquent posters in this thread who I admire because they're able to debate with the other side without getting frustrated.

I really feel like repeal is going to win, I'm so hopeful that other women won't have to do what I've done when I made my decision and that women won't have to travel any longer. It's shameful, it really is.

Shadowstrife

If you are voting 'Yes', can I please encourage you to go out and join a local canvassing team.

We all know the undecideds will close this referendum. Every conversation door-to-door really helps dispel the misinformation out there.

BabysCoffee

I agree Shadowstrife. Boots on the ground are badly needed. I went out canvassing for the first time yesterday and unfortunately I got a lot of No' s and a few undecideds. We need conversations to take place on the doorsteps.
If anyone can get out with local groups they should.

Nettle Soup

baylah17 wrote: »

Kk333 wrote: »

Haha best of look if he does that. Dont mess with grannies.

My Mum is 84 Catholic and a mass goer
She votes Yes in 1983
She voted Yes for Divorce in 1995
She voted Yes to Marraige Equality
She is voting Yes to repeal the 8th
Dont presume that because a woman is old or religious they will just vote like sheep!

I imagine she is very much in the minority but fair play to her for going against Roman Catholic recommendations!

Shadowstrife

^ Same here, lots of No's/undecideds. But every 'Yes' received was a pick-me-up.


Also, for those who don't feel comfortable with door-to-door, please offer people lifts in your car, or help out in similar ways. Every little helps.

_Dara_

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

From 26th May women of Ireland will have choice and subsequently, appropriate medical assistance to help with any choice they make.

Hopefully. Let's not get complacent. This is a topic that many people don't get into debate about. There could be many more Save the 8th voters than you think.

It wasnt me123

Dara, not according to any poll I've seen. They all put Repeal firmly in front. I think Ireland has come of age and wants this backward amendment gone. It hurts too many people. I'm not complacent or naive, I genuinely think the pro choice side will win well. I think a lot of people say don't know because they would like to keep their decision private, especially if its in a small rural area, it doesn't necessarily mean that its a No. Anyway, you are all being remarkably restrained with all the "on the fence but No really" posters. Well done

baylah17

Shadowstrife wrote: »

If you are voting 'Yes', can I please encourage you to go out and join a local canvassing team.

We all know the undecideds will close this referendum. Every conversation door-to-door really helps dispel the misinformation out there.

I'm in D14 not sure who to contact 're canvassing

baylah17

Nettle Soup wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

Kk333 wrote: »

Haha best of look if he does that. Dont mess with grannies.

My Mum is 84 Catholic and a mass goer
She votes Yes in 1983
She voted Yes for Divorce in 1995
She voted Yes to Marraige Equality
She is voting Yes to repeal the 8th
Dont presume that because a woman is old or religious they will just vote like sheep!

I imagine she is very much in the minority but fair play to her for going against Roman Catholic recommendations!

No
Listening to her a lot of her friends in the Bridge Club and other groups she's involved in are either voting yes or are abstaining as they see it as young people's issue
Her words

BabysCoffee

Together for Yes "Dublin Bay South" are canvassing in Terenure on Wednesday.
Search for them on Facebook if it suits to join and you are looking for more info.

January

baylah17 wrote: »

I'm in D14 not sure who to contact 're canvassing

You're looking for either Dublin South West Together for Yes or Dublin Mid West Together for Yes depending on your electoral area (that's how it's being divided up).

Mid West - https://www.facebook.com/Together4YesDMW/

South West - https://www.facebook.com/DublinSWProChoice/

nozzferrahhtoo

Shadowstrife wrote: »

If you are voting 'Yes', can I please encourage you to go out and join a local canvassing team.

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I agree Shadowstrife. Boots on the ground are badly needed.

Alas being in Germany there is very little I can do on the ground this time around. Aside from boards.ie I am not sure where else I could be usefully deployed remotely. politics.ie is a a near un-moderated mess little better than the cess pool comments section of you tube. So not much point discussing it there where people think "ye your mah" or "You are some w@nker" is an intellectual burn of a come back.

I have been more useful over the years pushing politicians in the US, UK and other locations to put pressure on politicians back in Ireland. But now we actually have a referendum coming, that is not required much at the moment.

To be honest though, the more clinical approach I take to the subject, I am not sure I would deploy me door to door if I were managing the ground troops. Not sure where I would be useful. Silenced and kept away from actual voters maybe

So perhaps time for me to just shut up until it is time to start drafting actual legislation. But I am open to anything I can do remotely if anyone has further suggestions.

nozzferrahhtoo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have been weighing up the arguments for myself and I was open to "yes" but i'm falling on the "no" side here principally because I don't know what the term limit would be on abortion. Think this is a fatal flaw in the "yes" campaign. Still time for the "yes" side to convince me.

The citizens assembly recommended 12 weeks as a cut off and there is little reason to think the government will deviate from that. Even attempting to do so would be a hot potato that I reckon no Irish Politician will want to deal with.

However if it allays your fears any, the simple fact is that longer term limits than 12 weeks do not have all that much affect on abortions that are based mainly on choice (as opposed to some medical necessity).

When you compile the figures on women choosing to have abortions from countries with abortion totally illegal.... to countries with term limits like the UK or the US.... to countries with close to no limits like Canada...... they are consistent. Over 80% of abortions happen in or before week 10, 90-4% in or before week 12, and pretty much the near totality by week 16.

However the statistics suggest countries where it is illegal are SLIGHTLY worse, likely due to the time spent planning, resourcing and paying for travel to other jurisdictions to avail of abortion. So regardless of term limits.... having abortion LOCAL would likely allay your fears more than voting no and having none here at all.

So I think your heart is in the right place by being concerned IN THEORY with longer term limits. But in reality and actual practice is is a concern that is pretty groundless. If someone were looking for a reason to vote "no" however I am sure it is something that could use to justify that vote to themselves. But other than that, I see little to no reason to be concerned. It is not going to happen, and even if it did it would have next to no impact.

iamwhoiam

Nettle Soup wrote: »

I imagine she is very much in the minority but fair play to her for going against Roman Catholic recommendations!

I dont think she is .My Mam is over 90 years old .Voted Yes for Divorce , Yes for Marriage Equality and will vote Yes for Repeal . She and others understand that they cannot choose for other people what is right for them .Many of her age group feel the same .

amdublin

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

So perhaps time for me to just shut up until it is time to start drafting actual legislation. But I am open to anything I can do remotely if anyone has further suggestions.

Please don't stop posting on boards.ie!!!!!

I learn something new every time you post. Plus you are a wise and calming influence.

nozzferrahhtoo

amdublin wrote: »

Please don't stop posting on boards.ie!!!!!

I learn something new every time you post. Plus you are a wise and calming influence.

awww shucks look I am blushing

Yeah I will continue to post here, but I am not seeing much utility in me doing much else anywhere else. But am open to suggestion. Though I have been rallying the Irish ExPat community over here to try and rally some yes voters back home so I am not doing NOTHING. Just very little

Dammit you will not learn much new from THIS post though. Ehhhh ehhhh ehhhh..... did you know the Unabomber was likely caught because he used the CORRECT version of the phrase "Have your cake and eat it" in something he wrote to the media, and people who knew him IDed him on that.

Sorry first thing that came into my head.

Achasanai

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I dont think she is .My Mam is over 90 years old .Voted Yes for Divorce , Yes for Marriage Equality and will vote Yes for Repeal . She and others understand that they cannot choose for other people what is right for them .Many of her age group feel the same .

I think there's a lot of misconceptions over how people of a certain age/place/class/etc are going to vote. It was the same with regards to the marriage referendum: a lot of my friends out canvassing would come up with some eye-opening classist or ageist remarks.

Smertrius

so we can't have all abortions and preserve life baby and help teenagers and rape women have abortions if they want to, we shouldn't need to vote for this, abortions should have been allowed in Ireland a long time ago, no woman should be forced go to another country to have abortions and doctors could inform a pregnant woman that her baby might not live a long and be forced go to through pregnancy of 9 months only find out their child only live few a hours.

Sofiztikated

Seeing as there's a second thread, but I don't see any info about it here.

Mickey Harte (The Gaa chap) launched the GAA Athletes for a NO vote.

It seems Ballyfermot De La Salle GAA Club didn't know the grounds were being used for a no vote campaign launch.

January

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Seeing as there's a second thread, but I don't see any info about it here.

Mickey Harte (The Gaa chap) launched the GAA Athletes for a NO vote.

It seems Ballyfermot De La Salle GAA Club didn't know the grounds were being used for a no vote campaign launch.

GAA are sending a letter to every club secretary in the country to let them know that no events on either side are to be held on the grounds or in the clubhouses of any of the clubs from now on.