The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Zerbini Blewitt

RobertKK wrote: »

....
If this referendum fails we will have another referendum at some stage, it won't be 35 years times next time, it will be far far sooner, and if this is rejected this time, a more restricted abortion regime will be voted on
....

Yes in that event, I also think a subsequent repeal will be sooner. I don’t think it’ll be more restrictive though, because-

Even more women & girls will have been humiliated, sadistically degraded, maimed, butchered, mutilated & killed by the 8th - by that time.

All their families, friends, neighbours & the wider community will be outraged by this (like Savita & all the other actual victims of the 8th up to now); adding to an even stronger end-this-lunacy-now feeling.

So I think it’s more likely that Ireland may actually end up with THE least restrictive regulations in Europe if not the world.

Funny how people see things differently, eh Rob?

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

You were mod warned for un-factual statements earlier in the thread regarding the doctors in the miss p case using her as a stunt, but so far the poster you quoted hasn't been. What lies have they and other repeal posters wrote on here in your opinion, with evidence if available?

I was not mod warned for un-factual statement, and the word is nonfactual.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

Stop making up I am telling lies please.

Yes people tell lies but it is ok, if one doesn't agree it is "lies".

Read what is proposed, it is not lies what I post. It is lies to make out one doesn't know what is proposed by the government.

I'm not making up that you are telling lies, you are most definitely spreading lies and misinformation all over this thread.

I've read what is proposed, and it is just that, a proposal. It is lies to make out that if the 8th is repealed these proposals will come into legislation when the government have to vote on it.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

I was not mod warned for un-factual statement, and the word is nonfactual.

Thank you for educating us all

Lies

would do as well - bit clearer




Any you'll never be pregnant - so you'll never be in a position to go for a termination


Funny that isn't ? the most squawky NO ones are sometimes men

RobertKK

Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »

Yes in that event, I also think a subsequent repeal will be sooner. I don’t think it’ll be more restrictive though, because-

Even more women & girls will have been humiliated, sadistically degraded, maimed, butchered, mutilated & killed by the 8th - by that time.

All their families, friends, neighbours & the wider community will be outraged by this (like Savita & all the other actual victims of the 8th up to now); adding to the even stronger end-this-lunacy-now feeling.

So I think it’s more likely that Ireland may actually end up with THE least restrictive regulations in the Europe if not the world.

Funny how people see things differently, eh Rob?

But if repeal sides fail, it will show the establishment which is behind repeal got it very wrong, and the people the politicians were listening to are out of touch with the Irish people, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Proposed legislation is based on the Dail committee which recommended 12 weeks unrestricted and longer in other cases.

Yes. Proposed.
Nothing in writing.
No Bill yet.

RobertKK

January wrote: »

I'm not making up that you are telling lies, you are most definitely spreading lies and misinformation all over this thread.

I've read what is proposed, and it is just that, a proposal. It is lies to make out that if the 8th is repealed these proposals will come into legislation when the government have to vote on it.

ok then what do you believe will be introduced as abortion law?
Don't know is not an answer given we know what is proposed.

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »

Mod: RobertKK, you spent a long time speculating on the Miss P case but presenting it as fact despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. It was both disgusting and insulting. Remember that Ireland is a small place where both friends and family of the deceased can easily see what you have posted.

It was not a stunt. This is not opinion. This is a fact. Drop that argument now or don't post in this thread again.

Really, reads like a mod warning for un-factual statements to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unfact

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

Show proof of this ?


If you think you can see into the future ( or the martians told you ) - i can haz lotto numbers ?

January

RobertKK wrote: »

ok then what do you believe will be introduced as abortion law?
Don't know is not an answer given we know what is proposed.

Don't know is a very valid answer considering the bill hasn't even been written yet.

Given what is proposed, I hope that everything in it is passed into legislation and after the 8th is repealed I will continue, along with all of our current pro-choice groups, to campaign for that to happen.

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really, reads like a mod warning for un-factual statements to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unfact

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

That was not mod opinion, you were being derogatory and insulting towards Ms. P and her family and medical team stating it was a publicity stunt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

RobertKK

January wrote: »

That was not mod opinion, you were being derogatory and insulting towards Ms. P and her family and medical team stating it was a publicity stunt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

Didn't stop your post just after it :

RobertKK wrote: »

I was only replying to replies. Plus I had finished posting in this thread last night so I had no intention of replying when one only gets called names and told they don’t care a relative lives or died.
So if I get a thread ban for replying, I have already a self imposed ban and I just want to use this reply to let others know that, some were replying last night after they knew I had stopped replying, a couple tried to bait me into replying via name calling/putdowns then but they weren’t worth it and the hassle one gets isn’t worth it.

More

Lies

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

Didn't stop your post just after it :

I did take a break, you have gotten very personal in this thread as you would rather discuss me, so the discussion can move on from my other posts this evening.

gctest50

You are posting lies like they are 100% fact


For example - how do you know this :

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

?

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

You are posting lies like they are 100% fact


How do you know this for example :



?

Maybe you should learn the difference between opinion and fact.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that would be called on regardless of who posted it and should be considered shameful.

_Dara_

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Dara, not according to any poll I've seen. They all put Repeal firmly in front. I think Ireland has come of age and wants this backward amendment gone. It hurts too many people. I'm not complacent or naive, I genuinely think the pro choice side will win well. I think a lot of people say don't know because they would like to keep their decision private, especially if its in a small rural area, it doesn't necessarily mean that its a No. Anyway, you are all being remarkably restrained with all the "on the fence but No really" posters. Well done

Polls have been wrong. This is an issue where I can easily envisage people either demurring completely when asked (when they actually do know how they are going to vote) or saying that they are going to vote opposite to how they are actually going to vote. It’s certainly a more contentious issue than the MarRef. There’s no room for complacency at all especially as that can sometimes breed smugness which, let’s face it, gets people’s backs up. We need to work on the assumption that it will be a close race as that will give the extra drive to capture the minds of the true undecideds.

jluv

RobertKK wrote: »

One can only vote on what is being proposed to replace it, something the Yes side try to avoid with talk of compassion, trust women, no mention of abortion on Yes posters, because they know if they were to put what the government plans to replace the 8th amendment with, it is bad for the Yes side.

I don't think people are thick, but if a person wants a clear conscience on the issue, and unrestricted abortion is an issue, then one can't really separate the issues, because currently removing the 8th amendment will lead to unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and longer in other cases.

If repeal wins, then we are all in the 'trust politicians' area and it is clear from some of the politicians on the yes side, who said they were pro-life and against the killing of the unborn, they are now advocating unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. These are the kind of people one has to trust, when they enter the polling booth.

Robert..thats where I was in my head for a while..if I vote to repeal I'm ok'ing unrestricted abortion. But I'm not being asked to ok unresticted abortion.I'm being asked do i agree with the 8th amendment being in the constitution. The answer to that is no. If and when the government legislate to introduce unrestricted abortion then I'm going to have to fight that (and being honest I don't know how or where or when)
If the unrestricted abortion were not on the table how would you feel regarding the 8th

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that is shameful.

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe you should learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Your posts are either taking the p!s or you think everyone is thick

This is a poor attempt at manipulation :

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

Unfactual, scaremongering lies


.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

It's not an accusation to say you should be ashamed. I don't want to get anyone banned from any thread by the way and have never tried to get anyone banned from this thread.

I am debating with you in a polite manner so nothing shameful here.

NuMarvel

RobertKK wrote: »

But if repeal sides fail, it will show the establishment which is behind repeal got it very wrong, and the people the politicians were listening to are out of touch with the Irish people, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

This is up there with believing that voting Yes in the Seanad referendum will lead to reform of the Seanad. Five year's later, the most that's happened is that a committee will be formed to consider a report and who knows when any recommendations will be implemented, if ever.

Voting No is going to kick the issue back down the agenda. Barring another horrific case, that's resulted in a girl or a woman being subjected to cruel or degrading treatment, no government will touch this for at least the next five years. And whenever they look at it again, they'll come to the same conclusion they did this time; that trying to put grounds for abortion into the constitution is a recipe for disaster.

And in the meantime, thousands of women and girls will travel or import pills, and people like you will go on believing that there's no abortion in Ireland, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

DubInMeath wrote: »

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that would be called on regardless of who posted it and should be considered shameful.

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

You know exactly what DubInMeath is saying

You are now mentioning Miss P. in your post hopibg someone "new" will take you up on it and you'll be all like " thread-ban oh poor me "


Pulling the parachute cord and playing the victim

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

You said you haven't posted lies and that the repeal side are.
I simply pointed out that the mod warning that you received and you denied receiving in relation to your un-factual statements regarding the miss p case as evidence that this might not be considered a fully factual statement, while also asking who from the repeal side has posted lies in your opinion with evidence in relation to repealing the 8th, which I'm still waiting on.

ForestFire

January wrote: »

Stop with the lies Robert, you've been called out so many times on it. If the 8th is repealed the 12 week legislation is not a guarantee. It could be shot down at the first hurdle by members of the Dail, you and I both know it you just love to scaremonger.

You might not realise, but this is more scary than what Robert has said.

There was plenty of posters telling me, when I had concerns about it going beyond 12 weeks that it would not... They said...

-It will be 12 weeks
-Did you read the citizens assemble report and recommendations
-politicians wouldn't risk going against this.
-It needs to be unrestricted due to rape cases
-It can't be less than 12 weeks due to pregnancy confirmation and appointments etc.
-it it the only proposal made and currently the only plan to replace the 8th.

So if you are saying we don't know, then it could be lower or higher than 12 weeks?

I don't agree with this and I am asumming it will be 12 weeks. At the moment the proposal is 12 weeks and I would hope that before the referendum this will be clarified and clear and only a matter of formality to pass.

If this is not clear and defined before the referendum, do you not think it could cause issues for voters?

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

You know exactly what DubInMeath is saying

You are now mentioning Miss P. in your post hopibg someone "new" will take you up on it and you'll be all like " thread-ban oh poor me "


Pulling the parachute cord and playing the victim

Who brought Miss P up?

Who took this thread off what was being discussed because they would rather throw it off on a different route?

People tried to get me banned from this thread tonight.

crustybla

I don't know how you guys do it, those of you here every day debating for repeal. Ye have some patience. I took part in a debate on facebook today and I had to come out of it, my head was melted! The blatant lies and bile spewed by some was staggering. Most of them were women. There were far more agreeing with me though, and most of them were men.

Iamwhoiam and Jluv made very good points. All a lot of people (on both sides but one in particular) seem to see is repeal=abortion in all its forms. If people actually educated themselves on the 8th, would they see things differently?

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Who brought Miss P up?

Who took this thread off what was being discussed because they would rather throw it off on a different route?

People tried to get me banned from this thread tonight.

I'm not trying to get you banned, I'm simply pointing out where your not telling the truth about what you are and have posted.