The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Smertrius

god give us freewill say to yes and freewill to have abortions

nozzferrahhtoo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

I assume you meant a 9 week old fetus, as I do not think 9 year old children have anything to do with this thread?

However corpses can fart and have erections. But like the fetus they are, in terms of personhood, humanity, consciousness, sentience..... dead. It would be interesting to know why yawning in particular sways you.

Even a single celled amoeba can move away from light, and respond to a needle stuck into it. Autonomic responses and bodily processes are not what we should value here.

However a vote of "no" is not going to stop abortions, or even reduce them any. Nor is a "yes" likely to increase the number of abortions Irish Women are already having. As much as the "no" side want to convince you of it, this vote goes way deeper than just a discussion of abortion. Abortion that is already happening.

A "yes" vote is about removing text from the constitution that impacts on, and harms, the health care of ALL pregnant women, even those who wish to remain pregnant and have a child. IF you care for that, vote yes. If you care for the women's safety and well being who are having abortion anyway only in the UK, and you would rather them have it here locally if they are going to have it anyway, vote yes. And if you care about the fetus at 9 weeks then vote yes, because having to travel for an abortion means it is likely to happen later than it would locally. If it was going to happen anyway would you rather it happen here at 8 weeks or in the UK at 9? Here at 10 or in the UK at 11 or 12? Why ADD time to the issue that you can not prevent anyway?

Andy From Sligo

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I assume you meant a 9 week old fetus, as I do not think 9 year old children have anything to do with this thread?
....

ah yes of course - better go back and amend it for people who didn't realise what i meant

garbo speaks

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I cannot vote in the referendum at all, but if I were to vote I was going to vote repeal until I saw on the posters that at 9 weeks a child in the womb can yawn and kick and now that's sort of changed my view now on abortion (if its accurate information that is) ...

It's a living, breathing little life.

Try_harder

Did I not vote on this already???

amcalester

garbo speaks wrote: »

It's a living, breathing little life.

A fetus does not breath in the womb.

gctest50

New poll - only 2 options now

Ave Sodalis

Try_harder wrote: »

Did I not vote on this already???

It was updated to reflect more current trends. People may change their mind, or make up their minds as the campaigns move on

Try_harder

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

It was updated to reflect more current trends. People may change their mind, or make up their minds as the campaigns move on

Still trust women

Ken.

Yes with a little over a month to go I reset the poll to take out the not sure option and allow everyone vote again. If you search my posts in this thread you'll find a screenshot of the results of the old poll,

posturingpat

The one thing i really can't get from the Yes side is this thing that the 8th ammendment has never and will never save a life, like that is complete and utter lies and people pedalling it are lying to themselves or being disingenuous.

robarmstrong

posturingpat wrote: »

The one thing i really can't get from the Yes side is this thing that the 8th ammendment has never and will never save a life, like that is complete and utter lies and people pedalling it are lying to themselves or being disingenuous.

Can't really talk about complete and utter lies with people pedalling to it/being disingenuous when you have the pro-life campaign spouting out lies left right and centre in regards to false statistics, incorrect and misleading statements along with general scaremongering supported by proven to be false pictures/phrases.

posturingpat

robarmstrong wrote: »

Can't really talk about complete and utter lies with people pedalling to it/being disingenuous when you have the pro-life campaign spouting out lies left right and centre in regards to false statistics, incorrect and misleading statements along with general scaremongering supported by proven to be false pictures/phrases.

Bit deflective there.
I never mentioned anything about anything else was focussed on this one single point as i repeatedly hear it and it's completely wrong.

Timberrrrrrrr

garbo speaks wrote: »

It's a living, breathing little life.

Another anti-choice lie :rolleyes:

crustybla

Good point Shadow, he'd be the one to assume he's registered.:rolleyes:

robarmstrong

posturingpat wrote: »

Bit deflective there.
I never mentioned anything about anything else was focussed on this one single point as i repeatedly hear it and it's completely wrong.

Now is it fact that it's completely wrong, or is it your opinion that it's completely wrong?

There's plenty of evidence there to point that it didn't save lives, is there any evidence you can provide that it did?

nozzferrahhtoo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah yes of course - better go back and amend it for people who didn't realise what i meant

Nice of you to not reply to pretty much any of my post all the same.

baylah17

robarmstrong wrote: »

posturingpat wrote: »

Bit deflective there.
I never mentioned anything about anything else was focussed on this one single point as i repeatedly hear it and it's completely wrong.

Now is it fact that it's completely wrong, or is it your opinion that it's completely wrong?

There's plenty of evidence there to point that it didn't save lives, is there any evidence you can provide that it did?

I caused women to die
Needlessly
Painfully
It costs lives it doesn't save lives

Ave Sodalis

posturingpat wrote: »

Well yes, i'm alive.

So the only reason your parents didn't abort you was because it is illegal to do so? If having you put them in a very difficult position (mentally, physically and/or financially), would you wish that on your parents? Would you want someone you love and care about to go through that?

reubenreuben

Anyone sane and mentally healthy will vote YES to repeal the 8th. The majority in Ireland.

The others who are not will vote NO. The minority.

robarmstrong

posturingpat wrote: »

Well yes, i'm alive.

So nothing to back up your claims, grand so.

reubenreuben

posturingpat wrote: »

The one thing i really can't get from the Yes side is this thing that the 8th ammendment has never and will never save a life, like that is complete and utter lies and people pedalling it are lying to themselves or being disingenuous.

The 8th doesn't help save a life. It restricts and over complicates saving the life of both the child and the mother.

That is why the majority in this country will vote to repeal it.

captbarnacles

This is why the prolifers seem to endlessly lose the argument and resort to nonsense: Irish women are having abortions.

What you are arguing for is should we 'in principle' ban abortions at the expense of the health of pregnant women for no particular gain to anyone bar some religious citizens.

That isn't an argument you are going to win.

Andy From Sligo

reubenreuben wrote: »

Anyone sane and mentally healthy will vote YES to repeal the 8th. The majority in Ireland.

The others who are not will vote NO. The minority.

surely traditional middle aged, old people and religious people should have been factored into that?- think they will vote NO

gctest50

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

surely traditional middle aged, old people and religious people should have been factored into that?- think they will vote NO

How many

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

surely traditional ........ old people

will face something like this :

robarmstrong wrote: »

.........

My partner is 27 weeks pregnant with a baby girl, however before this we have suffered countless miscarriages due to her having a uterine abnormality (she has a heart shaped uterus) - basically this means that unless a baby implants in a certain area, my partner will lose the baby. All of our miscarriages have occured due to the baby implanting in an area that cannot support the size or volume of the amniotic sac which eventually will rupture due to the pressure placed upon it by the sides of the uterine wall (the latest we got to was 19 weeks).

Medical professionals have denied us access to abortions because technically my partner's health is not at risk nor is the babies (the baby will be absolutely fine and healthy, her waters will just break anyway and the baby will pass away). My partner does not meet the requirements for a legal abortion on Ireland because the medical professionals are of the opinion that due to the outcome of the pregnancy resting solely on where the baby implants, we can (and we currently are) having a successful pregnancy.

However this means that whenever the baby is not in the right place my partner is forced to carry it until she eventually miscarries it and has to deal with the heartbreak

reubenreuben

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

surely traditional middle aged, old people and religious people should have been factored into that?- think they will vote NO

Only the latter are not sane and mentally healthy.

Annasopra

reubenreuben wrote: »

Anyone sane and mentally healthy will vote YES to repeal the 8th. The majority in Ireland.

The others who are not will vote NO. The minority.

Sigh. There is no need to insult people with differing views.

davidfitz22

reubenreuben wrote: »

Only the latter are not sane and mentally healthy.

Edgy.

That attitude gives a bad reflection on the yes side voters.
I'll be voting yes. That is my decision that I have come to.

If the no voters are voting the way they are, it's due to their moral choice not because " they haven't a functional brain" what a daft generalization

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

surely traditional middle aged, old people and religious people should have been factored into that?- think they will vote NO

Middle age & old people were a lot younger in 1983. Even if they were eligible to vote then, a lot voted against the 8th. Many of them now will vote repeal because they have seen the harm it does.
I don't think people should write off older people. I'm now in my forties, & I never had a vote on this issue.

gmisk

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/988483679470211073?s=19

John Mc Guirk playing a blinder isn't he... Does he honestly think things like this are going to endear him to anyone?