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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #8672
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You didn't lie but you misrepresented. Leaving out the reasoning for the result (which was not moral opposition, but that no training was yet provided).
    Typical whataboutery from the birth enforcement squad.

    Why would I apologise to the likes of you?
    Are you going to apologise for the death of Savita?
    The thousands of women you hurt/killed/endangered?
    10 per day. Every day.

    Apologies if I thought you might be a decent person.


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    #8673
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You are saying Dr Rhonda Mahony who dealt with this case is a liar. Are you saying there are no heart conditions in humans that can kill?
    Are you saying the unborn are immune to life threatening heart conditions?

    I'm not saying she is a liar, I am saying that your sister probably heard something different to what she was being told, it happens in times of crisis. The difference between life threatening and fatal foetal are miles apart and there are no fatal foetal heart conditions so your sister couldn't have been told that your nephew was most definitely going to die. Unborn babies are diagnosed with life threatening heart conditions every day in this country.


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    #8674
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,992 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Apologies if I thought you might be a decent person.
    That's rich, coming from a birth enforcer.
    Probably male and over 40.

    Where's your apology to the 10 women every day that you force to take the boat? Or risk their health with dodgy pills?


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    #8675
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Ah lads, no need to go down the personal attack routes. It detracts from the thread discussion.

    As again Robert, I'd appreciate your input on the below.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It isn't FFA, as the baby will develop healthily with no issues but the amniotic sac will rupture due to the pressure of the uterine walls (because the baby has implanted in an area that is not viable) leading my partner to miscarry.

    Is this me "dressing up abortion as being compassionate" ? My partner does not have nor will she have access to a safe and legal abortion here and instead will have to miscarry continuously until we have a baby that has implanted in a viable area (like where the baby in the current pregnancy has).

    Medical professionals have deemed her not suitable for legal abortion in this country due to the 8th, neither her health nor the babies health is in direct danger.

    Do you think it's fair that her and women like her will have to miscarry continuously because the 8th is denying them the dignity of a safe and legal abortion in their own home country? Or are they "killing" the unborn that were going to die anyways?


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    #8676
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8677
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    I'm not saying she is a liar, I am saying that your sister probably heard something different to what she was being told, it happens in times of crisis. The difference between life threatening and fatal foetal are miles apart and there are no fatal foetal heart conditions so your sister couldn't have been told that your nephew was most definitely going to die. Unborn babies are diagnosed with life threatening heart conditions every day in this country.

    Is that why her unborn had to have his heart checked weekly to see if he was alive?
    Many trips to the national maternity hospital where a pro-choice nurse suggested going to England was an option...
    Just because it doesn’t suit you can’t make out everyone to be wrong so you can paint yourself as being right.


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    #8678
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's rich, coming from a birth enforcer.
    Probably male and over 40.

    Where's your apology to the 10 women every day that you force to take the boat? Or risk their health with dodgy pills?

    The pills aren't dodgy, they might be if bought from an unreputable site but the ones that come from WOW and Women Help are not. They're safe.


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    #8679
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    You don’t think the abortion rate will rise going by your post, why?


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    #8680
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Is that why her unborn had to have his heart checked weekly to see if he was alive?
    Many trips to the national maternity hospital where a pro-choice nurse suggested going to England was an option...
    Just because it doesn’t suit you can’t make out everyone to be wrong so you can paint yourself as being right.

    Oh you've said previously that doctors told her she could go to England, now it was a pro-choice nurse? So not a doctor anymore?

    Once a baby in utero is diagnosed with a heart condition in utero they're transferred to one of the three major Dublin hospitals for monitoring every week. Doesn't matter which condition that is whether it is HLHS, ASD, VSD, Aortic Stenosis, Pulmonary Stenosis etc etc I could go on but there's too many different ones. If the baby starts struggling then the mother will be induced and the baby transferred to Crumlin for care. Just like your nephew was transferred to be cared for.

    Your sisters care was not unique, it's the care plan for every baby diagnosed with a heart condition in utero.


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    #8681
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    RobertKK wrote: »
    But most GPs in a poll said they don’t want to be abortionists and won’t be.

    There's nothing new about that. Even in countries where abortion is legal, doctors can elect to not carry about abortions themselves. Every doctor doesn't need to. As long as there are a decent number in each county that will, there's no issue with a doctor deciding not to perform them. They can give a referral to another doctor.


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    #8682
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You don’t think the abortion rate will rise going by your post, why?
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It isn't FFA, as the baby will develop healthily with no issues but the amniotic sac will rupture due to the pressure of the uterine walls (because the baby has implanted in an area that is not viable) leading my partner to miscarry.

    Is this me "dressing up abortion as being compassionate" ? My partner does not have nor will she have access to a safe and legal abortion here and instead will have to miscarry continuously until we have a baby that has implanted in a viable area (like where the baby in the current pregnancy has).

    Medical professionals have deemed her not suitable for legal abortion in this country due to the 8th, neither her health nor the babies health is in direct danger.

    Do you think it's fair that her and women like her will have to miscarry continuously because the 8th is denying them the dignity of a safe and legal abortion in their own home country? Or are they "killing" the unborn that were going to die anyways?

    Still waiting.


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    #8683
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,992 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    January wrote: »
    The pills aren't dodgy, they might be if bought from an unreputable site but the ones that come from WOW and Women Help are not. They're safe.
    Sorry. I let the emotions get the better of me there.

    I know the pills aren't dodgy. But taking them alone is.
    As are the "other methods" of inducing miscarriage.


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    #8684
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,458 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You don’t think the abortion rate will rise going by your post, why?

    Even if it does rise it makes little or no difference to those figures.


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    #8685
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8686
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    Who the hell is that idiot? I have never come across him before.
    Does he have a following?

    Former leader of Youth Defence, spoken at far right events in Europe, doesn't like immigrants or women. Tbh calling him a politician is a bit rich as I don't believe he has successfully been elected to anything. Failed politician and dubious human being would more apt. It's interesting examining the "leadership" of the forced birth brigade. An awful lot would linked to Opus Dei as well.


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    #8687
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    Oh you've said previously that doctors told her she could go to England, now it was a pro-choice nurse? So not a doctor anymore?

    Once a baby in utero is diagnosed with a heart condition in utero they're transferred to one of the three major Dublin hospitals for monitoring every week. Doesn't matter which condition that is whether it is HLHS, ASD, VSD, Aortic Stenosis, Pulmonary Stenosis etc etc I could go on but there's too many different ones. If the baby starts struggling then the mother will be induced and the baby transferred to Crumlin for care. Just like your nephew was transferred to be cared for.

    Your sisters care was not unique, it's the care plan for every baby diagnosed with a heart condition in utero.

    Please find where I said it was a doctor.


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    #8688
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Did the UK have the current abortion rate before 1968?


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    #8689
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    ballsymchugh wrote: »
    what happens if the referendum is a draw???

    Lawyers make millions with all the court cases that determine what happens next in this instance :D


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    #8690
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Still waiting.

    Your case is sad, but hard cases make bad law.


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    #8691
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,458 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Did the UK have the current abortion rate before 1968?

    how could we possibly tell? they didn't export their problem to another country like we do. all abortions were surgical and performed in backstreets with no medical supervision. I'm sure that situation was far preferable from your perspective.


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    #8692
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Your case is sad, but hard cases make bad law.

    Why did you avoid the part where I asked you if I was dressing up abortion as compassionate and queried if I'm "killing" my unborn?


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    #8693
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You don’t think the abortion rate will rise going by your post, why?

    Well, I'd imagine that if abortion were available here, women would more time to think about whether they want one or not. Whereas there's more of a commitment involved in booking one in England and it takes more time to plan. So out of fear of running out of time, one might plan it as quickly as possible. And go through with it because the plan has been made. Maybe with more room to breath, some might decide against it.


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    #8694
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Your case is sad, but hard cases make bad law.

    Wrong way round.

    Bad laws make hard cases.


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    #8695
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8696
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Please find where I said it was a doctor.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I have a nephew who was suppose to die not long after birth as he was diagnosed during pregnancy by the national maternity hospital as only having about 40 hrs of life when born before he would die.
    One nurse did say she could go to England, which added distress given she was hinting she could go for an abortion.
    He is now 10 years old and thanks to medical people who work to save lives, he is now living a normal life.
    Being diagnosed during pregnancy as having an unborn with a life limiting condition is not always black and white as is often painted by the repeal side.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    You are saying Dr Rhonda Mahony who dealt with this case is a liar. Are you saying there are no heart conditions in humans that can kill?
    Are you saying the unborn are immune to life threatening heart conditions?

    It's quite confusing, a doctor was dealing with your case but it wasn't the doctor that suggested it, but a qualified maternity nurse?


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    #8697
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8698
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Please find where I said it was a doctor.

    I'll put my hands up and apologise here. You never said it was a doctor, I was mixing you up with petalgumdrops for a second.

    Again though, why would your sister take the advice (and I know she didn't) of a nurse, rather than a doctor. No doctor ever told your sister that your sisters child was definitely going to die, they said might die. Which is not the same. There are no fatal foetal heart conditions so it won't be covered under the proposed legislation if it does come into effect.


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    #8699
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Why did you avoid the part where I asked you if I was dressing up abortion as compassionate and queried if I'm "killing" my unborn?

    I don't believe most cases are compassionate. If the unborn is alive and then something is done so he/she isn't alive, then the life had to be killed for this situation to happen.
    It is hard to dress up what abortion does and not appear to be trying to have a poke at someone. But it is taking an unborn human life and at the end of the process the life is dead, done intentionally for anything from health reasons, rape to one case I listened to in her story in the Irish Times, where it was she wanted the baby but her partner didn't so she had the life terminated.
    Yesterday there this #menforyes but where is it that men are encouraged to support women who are pregnant? For some men, abortion is like getting a cheque when they don't want the baby as it means they won't have to pay the subsequent cost of child support. It isn't very compassionate when people think of themselves above the lives of others whether born or unborn, most abortions are simply healthy women aborting healthy unborn lives.


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    #8700
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don't believe most cases are compassionate. If the unborn is alive and then something is done so he/she isn't alive, then the life had to be killed for this situation to happen.
    It is hard to dress up what abortion does and not appear to be trying to have a poke at someone. But it is taking an unborn human life and at the end of the process the life is dead, done intentionally for anything from health reasons, rape to one case I listened to in her story in the Irish Times, where it was she wanted the baby but her partner didn't so she had the life terminated.
    Yesterday there this #menforyes but where is it that men are encouraged to support women who are pregnant? For some men, abortion is like getting a cheque when they don't want the baby as it means they won't have to pay the subsequent cost of child support. It isn't very compassionate when people think of themselves above the lives of others whether born or unborn, most abortions are simply healthy women aborting healthy unborn lives.

    How is the status quo any more compassionate than what's proposed?


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    #8701
    Stab*City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Stab*City


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    I doubt that's been finalised at this point yet. Abortions that are carried out in hospitals will probably be covered under the public system like any other procedure. However, it's expected most abortions will happen outside of a hospital setting because they can be carried out be administering some medication. And for that to be free, the government will have to negotiate with the GP bodies to agree rates, etc. That won't and can't happen before the referendum is passed.

    What's your source out of curiosity?

    I've just been bombarded with Yes/No everywhere i look so i just thought i should get a little informed.
    bubblypop wrote: »
    It is to repeal, or not, the 8th amendment. Which gives the unborn an equal right to life as the mother.
    I can't believe you don't know this? I am not in the country at the moment, so I don't know how much information there is. Is there some lack of knowledge surrounding the referendum?

    Probably not i just didn't bother reading up on it.


This discussion has been closed.
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