The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

BabysCoffee

tunguska wrote: »

Why dont you go and talk to some people from the No side, find out what you might learn yourself. Like actually listen to them instead of trying to win an argument.

I'm open to listening to you. I want to hear what you learnt.

But now you are shutting me down. Sob sob....

I guess I need to find some nice No voters who can talk to me and I can listen and learn.

tunguska

NuMarvel wrote: »

We learn plenty from the spokespeople, like McGuire and Sherlock and Quinn. None of it is good.

Talk to a regular person not a self appointed figure head.

Ave Sodalis

I would also be open to hearing a new perspective on the pro-life side, and would be interested in what they have to say.

tunguska

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I'm open to listening to you. I want to hear what you learnt.

But now you are shutting me down. Sob sob....

I guess I need to find some nice No voters who can talk to me and I can listen and learn.

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

robarmstrong

tunguska wrote: »

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

We are prepared to listen, you just don't seem prepared to tell us?

BabysCoffee

tunguska wrote: »

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

I'm listening.

What did you learn?

iguana

tunguska wrote: »

If youre defacing a poster it means youre a coward who hasnt got the courage to go talk to someone face to face.

Not really. When I was grieving a miscarriage the sight of many of those posters would have destroyed me. I wouldn't have been able to cope with seeing them. I genuinely don't know if I would have been able to leave the house for the two months we can expect to keep seeing them. I certainly wouldn't have been safe to drive. That's not hyperbole, my mental health was way too fragile to have coped with them. And that's not an unusual reaction either. I know of a lot of women who are not managing very well at all right now because of those posters. The temptation, for their loved ones, to just get rid of them must be overwhelming. It's a horrible, horrible abusive tactic and they know it because women have been explaining for years about the hurt that imagery causes to bereaved families and begging them to stop.

Ave Sodalis

tunguska wrote: »

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

Are we at least allowed to know the general theme of it? Or where to find the level headed No arguments?

amdublin

tunguska wrote: »

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

I'm another person prepared to listen.

In what world does asking someone means the opposite (I.e. that you're not interested)

Come on just tell us. It's been built up to something amazing now

amdublin

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Are we at least allowed to know the general theme of it? Or where to find the level headed No arguments?

Actually that's a good point.

What discussion was the poster even at??

tunguska

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I'm listening.

What did you learn?

Like I said, have some courage and go talk to someone yourself.

amdublin

iguana wrote: »

Not really. When I was grieving a miscarriage the sight of many of those posters would have destroyed me. I wouldn't have been able to cope with seeing them. I genuinely don't know if I would have been able to leave the house for the two months we can expect to keep seeing them. I certainly wouldn't have been safe to drive. That's not hyperbole, my mental health was way too fragile to have coped with them. And that's not an unusual reaction either. I know of a lot of women who are not managing very well at all right now because of those posters. The temptation, for their loved ones, to just get rid of them must be overwhelming. It's a horrible, horrible abusive tactic and they know it because women have been explaining for years about the hurt that imagery causes to bereaved families and begging them to stop.

I'm sorry for your hurt Iguana

tunguska

amdublin wrote: »

I'm another person prepared to listen.

In what world does asking someone means the opposite (I.e. that you're not interested)

Come on just tell us. It's been built up to something amazing now

What?

robarmstrong

tunguska wrote: »

Like I said, have some courage and go talk to someone yourself.

Or just tell us what you've learned so we can all digest the information you gathered.

What are the chances of us coming across the same people you did?

Seriously failing to see why you don't just share with us what the perspective you learned was about, I'd be more than eager to share if it was me.

amdublin

tunguska wrote: »

Like I said, have some courage and go talk to someone yourself.

Where does one go? Where did you go??

Why the big mystery now? You learnt so much but won't tell us what you learnt. And not so much to change your mind how you're voting right?

NuMarvel

tunguska wrote: »

If youre defacing a poster it means youre a coward who hasnt got the courage to go talk to someone face to face.

I'm not condoning damaging posters, but you have to admit those posters go wide of the mark, don't they? They hardly foster the "love both" image pro life people like to think they portray, so they?

amdublin

tunguska wrote: »

What?

Just tell us!!

You say we are not interested in listening. A few of us have said we are. And you've now said no you still won't tell us we need to find the people you spoke with to find out ourselves.

Please tell us. I want to hear.

Ave Sodalis

It's like we're all kids, sitting around the kitchen fire, asking grampa to tell us one more bedtime story

iguana

tunguska, do you realise that what you are doing is pretty much identical to the usual underhanded discussion tactics of people supporting an argument they can't actually justify. It's very common, very transparent and anyone with any experience of human conversation is wise to it. I'm just mentioning that as I really do believe that you learned something important and I'd hate to think that you'd accidentally lead anyone reading this to think you were that kind of underhanded tactic user. The more you refuse to share what you have learned, the more you really do seem like that kind of disingenuous poster. So please do share, we are all so interested.

tunguska

amdublin wrote: »

Just tell us!!

You say we are not interested in listening. A few of us have said we are. And you've now said no you still won't tell us we need to find the people you spoke with to find out ourselves.

Please tell us. I want to hear.

But if you were interested and genuinely open to hearing what people on the no side have to say, you'd go seek them out in the real world. Theres discussions all over the city, find one and just go. And go with an open attitude.

robarmstrong

Or you know, you could stop being intentionally vague and deflective by just telling us what you learned so we could all collectively discuss this new perspective?

Otherwise you're just telling porky pies tbh.

iguana

tunguska wrote: »

But if you were interested and genuinely open to hearing what people on the no side have to say, you'd go seek them out in the real world. Theres discussions all over the city, find one and just go. And go with an open attitude.

It's twenty five past midnight and I'm the only adult in the house with my 5 year old. I can't actually go to a meeting right now but I am super curious right now. You've totally piqued my curiosity and I'd just really love to know what you have learned.

Annasopra

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Maybe she is suicidal.

Did I read something about having agreement from 2 doctors on suicidal grounds?

3

Annasopra

iguana wrote: »

I imagine we'll also have Northern Irish women coming here. It will be much easier to drive or get a bus to the nearest Irish county with an abortion service than it will be to fly or sail to Britain. Even if you have to come back again 72 hours after your initial appointment driving from Derry to Donegal is pretty straightforward.

Maybe but they get it on the NHS in mainland Britain as far as I know. More hypocrisy.

Zubeneschamali

stockdam wrote: »

So if you don't believe that something is right then your only solution appears to to be to use force to stop it?

You seem to believe that its fine to have a law against abortion with a 14 year sentence attached and then have the state turn a blind eye and prosecute no-one for breaking it.

It isn't. The state has a Constitutional duty to defend and vindicate the equal right to life of the unborn. Eventually, the AG is going to have no choice but to jail some teenager for buying abortion pills.

Unless we change the 8th first.

erica74

tunguska wrote: »

But if you were interested and genuinely open to hearing what people on the no side have to say, you'd go seek them out in the real world. Theres discussions all over the city, find one and just go. And go with an open attitude.

Is it a big secret? Why can't you just post it here? You'll reach a wide audience. Or, are you just talking out of your arse?

Repeal the 8th.

Zubeneschamali

tunguska wrote: »

Theres discussions all over the city, find one and just go.

How do I find one of these discussions of this pro-life wisdom, master?

robarmstrong

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

How do I find one of these discussions of this pro-life wisdom, master?

Ready, you are not, my young Padawan, to learn the ways of the pro-life campaign online.

Seek out a pro-lifer for a real-life discussion, you must.

Share with you my learnings, I cannot.

kylith

tunguska wrote: »

But if you were interested and genuinely open to hearing what people on the no side have to say, you'd go seek them out in the real world. Theres discussions all over the city, find one and just go. And go with an open attitude.

What with work and other commitments I don’t have time. Please tell us what you learned, that we can learn from you.

nozzferrahhtoo

tunguska wrote: »

Why dont you go and talk to some people from the No side, find out what you might learn yourself. Like actually listen to them instead of trying to win an argument.

The issue of abortion first came to my attention in my latter teens. I now approach 40. At this time the anti abortion brigade used to delight in setting up information stalls just outside central bank in dublin. Replete with many of the fetal photography that we are still used to seeing today.

I decided I wanted to inform myself on the issue rather than simply take the default position that was expected of someone in my kind of headspace. So I cleared an ENTIRE Saturday.... assuming it would be a long conversation with some back and forth and lots of education for me.

I headed into town and approached the stalls and openly told them that I did not want to blindly take a default position on this issue and I wanted to hear their side of the issue openly and honestly and at length.

They said "Have you seen these pictures here?".

I agreed with them that the pictures they had chosen were indeed quite gruesome but I was there for the conversation, and the substance of their position.

"Loook at the pictures maaaaaan" I was told again in a kind of empty drawl.

After a few more attempts resulting in repeatedly been referred to the pictures I left with a whole Saturday still to fill. The entire discussion with all of them took less than 30 minutes.

And this has been representative of pretty much every conversation I have had with them since. So please, by all means regale me with what I might learn from these people if only I would listen to them. Because I HAVE been listening to them. For 2 and a half decades. What is it you feel I am not hearing?

tunguska wrote: »

But thats the thing, youre not prepared to listen. If you were you wouldnt be asking me you'd make up your own mind and find out for yourself.

So you are admonishing us to talk to "normal people" not figure heads and listen to them. Then when we ask YOU questions so we can listen to YOU you reverse track on that and assert we are not prepared to listen (false) and that by asking "normal people" so we can listen to them..... it means we should not be asking you and we should make up our own mind and find out for ourselves?

Bit of a have cake and eat it stacking of the deck you are pulling as a fast one there don't you think? Simultaneously admonishing people to do something, while admonishing them when they actually try to do that very thing.

Weird this is. Honest it is not. So why do you do it?