The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

patrickSTARR

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Firstly its not an argument, its my thought process. Im still undecided. Just because I don't or do know these women, those lives are still lost. I don't think every unplanned pregnancy will result in an abortion if the 8th is repealed, but with it being more easily available it will become a more normalised option.

I know 2 women who have had abortions (that I know of) of healthy babies, both regret it and suffer years later.

On the flip side I know people who suffered from the 8th during pregnancies and suffer years later too.

Im happy with how Im making my decision in the run up to this vote, I will do my best to make the right choice.

I know 2 close friends who had abortions, both of whom were mothers already. I travelled with one while her husband stayed home & mind the kids. Neither of them regret it, & would do exactly the same again.
Women can have abortions now, as protected in our constitution,they just have to go overseas

erica74

The antichoice posters are blowing my mind:pac:

New one in Waterford this evening
"They said to cherish all the children equally, vote no" and in the background is the Irish flag and some 1916 leaders

:pac:

patrickSTARR

bubblypop wrote: »

I know 2 close friends who had abortions, both of whom were mothers already. I travelled with one while her husband stayed home & mind the kids. Neither of them regret it, & would do exactly the same again.
Women can have abortions now, as protected in our constitution,they just have to go overseas

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

robarmstrong

reubenreuben wrote: »

Why is it always england, england, england when some are referring to abortion statistics/comparisons.

Its not the only country that has legal abortions you know.

Yano I've no idea to be honest. I'm just assuming it's because where most of our women go to seek abortions, maybe that's why?

BabysCoffee

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

How does it affect you (taking in to account you think abortion is wrong) if a woman has an abortion?

patrickSTARR

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

Well, one case her & her husband lost their jobs in construction. They had 3 children already & just couldn't bring Another child into the family, without the love ones suffering. One has special needs. They have since lost their house.
The other one had a teenage son, had an extremely hard time bringing him up, suffers from depression, & if I'm honest, probably is an alcoholic. I think she made the right choice for her & whatever baby may have come along. Her son had a very hard upbringing. Very hard.

Smertrius

if they say its illegal abortion in a country, the country should pay the woman if she wants abortion to have it done. No woman should have suffer it her body and her right to have abortion

erica74

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

What difference does it make to you personally whether any woman anywhere has an abortion?

kylith

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Its a healthy mother aborting a healthy foetus that I have a problem with just because with unplanned. I cant back that, however I do agree those who have serious health issues in pregnancy need the 8th repealed.

For me its a tough decision.

The thing about a healthy woman aborting a healthy pregnancy is that you shouldn’t let that blind you to the rest of her life.

She may be healthy, but she could have no money and not be able to afford to raise a child. She may be raising 3 children by herself and can’t cope with a 4th. She may have to drop out of college and thus lose any chance is a good career. She may have been raped and does not want to have her rapist’s child.

Sofiztikated

patrickSTARR wrote: »

Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different. Do you mind me asking the reasons for why they wanted to have abortions?

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

I'm going to guess they didn't want to be pregnant.

Martina1991

patrickSTARR wrote:

Its my view that abortions are just wrong if the baby and mother are in good health.

So you would rather ALL women who are capable of becoming pregnant to suffer because YOU feel uncomfortable with abortion in one circumstance.

Irish laws should not be based on your own idea of morality.

Moiratat

I was not in good health, my mind was a toxic place of hatred and depression from my family and boyfriend abusing me. My mother an alcoholic to put it lightly left for weeks on end, leaving me with my baby brother and 3 younger sisters and no food or money. My older sister was never home and if she was she would only abuse us further (my older sister having sexually abused me and them). I "had" my boyfriend at the time, he abused me physically and mentally and it got to a stage where he would rape me and call me a slut or a whore afterwards. I became pregnant. My told my boyfriend and he tried to kill my baby by beating me, by forcing me to drink alcohol and many other ways, his family were stern Catholics. To me I wanted my baby, I wanted to be able to keep him or her and love them ,I still do love them but I had to look after my siblings which I couldn't do if my mother kicked me out which she would have. And I would have liked to have given my baby the best life possible and couldn't if I was kicked out and even at that point my baby could've been seriously hurt. My boyfriend threatened me that if I did not go to England he would kill me. So I did and I miss my baby terribly but I had to do what I did. Am I a murderer because of it or a killer? Every time I go out and see one of the no posters I want to end my life. I feel so much shame and disgust at myself. I had to leave my home to say goodbye to my baby, because of the eighth.

Sofiztikated

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/inconsistencies-in-malone-s-story-save-the-8th-group-1.3476830

Bannasidhe

Moiratat wrote: »

I was not in good health, my mind was a toxic place of hatred and depression from my family and boyfriend abusing me. My mother an alcoholic to put it lightly left for weeks on end, leaving me with my baby brother and 3 younger sisters and no food or money. My older sister was never home and if she was she would only abuse us further (my older sister having sexually abused me and them). I "had" my boyfriend at the time, he abused me physically and mentally and it got to a stage where he would rape me and call me a slut or a whore afterwards. I became pregnant. My told my boyfriend and he tried to kill my baby by beating me, by forcing me to drink alcohol and many other ways, his family were stern Catholics. To me I wanted my baby, I wanted to be able to keep him or her and love them ,I still do love them but I had to look after my siblings which I couldn't do if my mother kicked me out which she would have. And I would have liked to have given my baby the best life possible and couldn't if I was kicked out and even at that point my baby could've been seriously hurt. My boyfriend threatened me that if I did not go to England he would kill me. So I did and I miss my baby terribly but I had to do what I did. Am I a murderer because of it or a killer? Every time I go out and see one of the no posters I want to end my life. I feel so much shame and disgust at myself. I had to leave my home to say goodbye to my baby, because of the eighth.

You are not a killer.
You are not a murderer.
You are not the one who should feel shame because you did nothing shameful.
Feel disgust for those who put you in that situation.

You are a strong, brave, woman who has survived so much betrayal.

Achasanai

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Jazz music. No, wrong thread, abortion.

Abortion will happen here legally, instead of happening in England legally or here illegally.

With the fantastic and amazing extras of safe medical after-care as well as having the support of family & friends.

Bobeagleburger

erica74 wrote: »

The antichoice posters are blowing my mind:pac:

New one in Waterford this evening
"They said to cherish all the children equally, vote no" and in the background is the Irish flag and some 1916 leaders

:pac:

Jaysus they are getting despearate

So I went on my first canvas for Yes last night. I knew nobody beforehand but everyone was lovely and very welcoming. I was paired with someone who was more experienced but by the end I did a few houses on my own to save time (only because I was comfortable to, it wasn't expected).

I really enjoyed it. There was a lot of support, a few good conversations with undecideds, and the no voters we met were nice and respectful. Will definitely do it again and would urge anyone thinking about it to try it. Not scary at all!

BabysCoffee

Flying Fox wrote: »

So I went on my first canvas for Yes last night. I knew nobody beforehand but everyone was lovely and very welcoming. I was paired with someone who was more experienced but by the end I did a few houses on my own to save time (only because I was comfortable to, it wasn't expected).

I really enjoyed it. There was a lot of support, a few good conversations with undecideds, and the no voters we met were nice and respectful. Will definitely do it again and would urge anyone thinking about it to try it. Not scary at all!

That's great to hear. Well done!

Was it in Dublin or another part of the country?

BabysCoffee

BabysCoffee wrote: »

That's great to hear. Well done!

Was it in Dublin or another part of the country?

Thanks!

It was in Dublin West

circular flexing

Saw this doing the rounds today, great analogy

https://aidancomerford.net/2018/04/27/the-rule/

amdublin

Have any anti choicers watched The Handmaid's Tale I wonder. Does it unsettle them at all?? Make them think at all??


Like do you reckon Cora Sherlock or David Quinn sit down with a glass of wine to watch it of an evening.


I only started watching it late in the first season and then made sure I watched the double episode of the second series last night.


Like jaysis it really makes me think of the Catholic church when I watch it.


**Maybe the anti choicers SHOULD be watching it

Igotadose

patrickSTARR wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

I
Im sure there are some who don't regret it, everyones different.

I've read at least one study showing the majority of women that have abortions do NOT regret it. Nor are there any significant post procedure risks to the mental health of the woman.

BabysCoffee

8th Amendment Debate starting now on Late Late Show

PopePalpatine

amdublin wrote: »

Have any anti choicers watched The Handmaid's Tale I wonder. Does it unsettle them at all?? Make them think at all??


Like do you reckon Cora Sherlock or David Quinn sit down with a glass of wine to watch it of an evening.


I only started watching it late in the first season and then made sure I watched the double episode of the second series last night.


Like jaysis it really makes me think of the Catholic church when I watch it.


**Maybe the anti choicers SHOULD be watching it

I could imagine one of two possible reactions:

1. Grr, typical liberal Hollywood, demonising decent Christians with this sort of rubbish!
2. Ha-ha, this is what stupid liberal Hollywood actually believes!

Martina1991

Representative for Yes: chair of obs/gyne

Representative for No: a journalist whose friend CHOSE to have an abortion.

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

Representative for Yes: chair of obs/gyne

Representative for No: a journalist whose friend CHOSE to have an abortion.

Hmm sounds like it will be pretty much knowledge and logic against hearsay and and prepared script.

Don't watch the late late since Gay left, but would have tonight if home.

gmisk

That lady's heartbreaking story about ashes being couriered has broken my heart couldn't stop the tears.

The repeal the 8th crowd are so measured and compassionate.

gmisk

Rhona Mahony (master of national maternity hospital) is in favour of repeal.... So that lady on the save the 8th has downright lied there horrendous.

fritzelly

Haven't watched the LLS tonight, can anyone give a quick recap in 12 words or less on what happened?

gmisk

fritzelly wrote: »

Haven't watched the LLS tonight, can anyone give a quick recap in 12 words or less on what happened?

Repeal the 8th decent honest factual, save side aggressive evading or downright lies