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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #9242
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
    I trust older women who have life experience.

    As opposed to young women who are actually affected by the 8th and are more likely to actually have researched it?

    While we’re here: what lies have the Yes side told? Who should get to make the choice about whether to continue with a FFA pregnancy?


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    #9243
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is clear for the majority of older people that retain/No is the compassionate position to be on, who some on the Yes side have attacked with ageism comments.
    I don’t know you, and it is not my place to judge you as an individual even if I did as to make out I am somehow perfect.
    I think yes for compassion is a lie as most of the abortions would be healthy women aborting healthy unborn. I think a lot of older wise people would also see through this Yes slogan lie.

    Deflection. Answer the question Robert. What about her.


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    #9244
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,376 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Moiratat wrote: »
    And what about me Robert? I have life experience past many my age, I raised my siblings, educated them on important subjects unlike their schools, or is my life experience not valid to you?

    No either is the woman who Robert watched on the late late, trouble with her fourth pregnacy problems arose trip to England couldn't even afford to go back for funeral had to have ashes delivered by courier. Robert has been ever present in this thread he has seen it all he only agrees with what suits him.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is clear for the majority of older people that retain/No is the compassionate position to be on, who some on the Yes side have attacked with ageism comments.
    Ageism comments? What age does a woman have to be for you to trust her?
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
    I trust older women who have life experience.


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    #9245
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It could just be your locality, strong retain among women around where I live.

    No, I am from the country & I live in the city.


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    #9246
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Can I ask what your father would think now?

    He didn't hang around too long, so I can't ask him


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    #9247
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Simi wrote: »
    Sheer utter lies! No matter how restricted the government proposals they'd automatically oppose them without blinking. They opposed the protection of life during pregnancy act ffs!

    Plus they've had 35 years to 'find a better solution' for women in crisis pregnancy and yet they haven't. I wonder why that is?

    The protection of life during pregnancy bill had the lie that abortion treats a woman who is suicidal.
    It is like arguing if the woman was suicidal because she was sexually abused or raped that we must reintroduce the death penalty so the abuser can be killed to treat her suicidal thoughts.


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    #9248
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The protection of life during pregnancy bill had the lie that abortion treats a woman who is suicidal.
    It is like arguing if the woman was suicidal because she was sexually abused or raped that we must reintroduce the death penalty so the abuser can be killed to treat her suicidal thoughts.

    What?

    When a woman is suicidal because she is pregnant then ending that pregnancy will treat the suicidal thoughts. Forcing her to remain pregnant and locking her up against her will and force feeding her doesn't help.

    It's not the same as introducing the death penalty for abusers.


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    #9249
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The older people voting No have always had that position, it's driven by Rome and certainly not life experience. Thankfully young people nowadays are not brainwashed by the church.


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    #9250
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

    https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21


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    #9251
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,048 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    https://twitter.com/eilistweets/status/990004359319695361?s=19

    You would think if the save the 8th side are putting this lady front and centre she would at least decide what her story is?


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    #9252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Robert, you seem to have some kind of vendetta against Peter Boylan, an expert in the field of maternal care who has seen first hand the problems the 8th causes. Why do you persist in calling him a liar when he's presenting factual evidence?


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    #9253
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    January wrote: »
    What?

    When a woman is suicidal because she is pregnant then ending that pregnancy will treat the suicidal thoughts. Forcing her to remain pregnant and locking her up against her will and force feeding her doesn't help.

    It's not the same as introducing the death penalty for abusers.

    Really?
    Abortion made the girl at the the center of the C case suicidal, where she states abortion was worse than the rape.
    https://amp.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/ccase-mum-i-grieve-for-my-lost-baby-every-day-29241584.html


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    #9254
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

    https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

    Given that I haven't watched the LLS, I won't argue with you on this.

    However, given your propensity for saying something is a lie when its not, you'll have to forgive me for being dubious.


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    #9255
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    Robert, you seem to have some kind of vendetta against Peter Boylan, an expert in the field of maternal care who has seen first hand the problems the 8th causes. Why do you persist in calling him a liar when he's presenting factual evidence?

    So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
    Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.


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    #9256
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Really?
    Abortion made the girl at the the center of the C case suicidal, where she states abortion was worse than the rape.
    https://amp.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/ccase-mum-i-grieve-for-my-lost-baby-every-day-29241584.html

    You mean the girl who didn’t know what was happening and who didn’t have a CHOICE in the matter?


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    #9257
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭swampgas


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
    Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.

    Maternity care statistics and abortion statistics are not clear in Ireland. But anyone with a brain in their head can see that Savita would be alive had the 8th not been in place, and that would have made the statistics even better.

    Anyhow, I don't think you understand the concept of facts. You shouldn't just pick and choose the ones you like and ignore all those other ones that destroy your emotionally held position on abortion.


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    #9258
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So he states last December that Irish maternity care is better than the UK.
    Let’s remember then when he states a different position to support Yes. I doubt we had lots of women dying in pregnancy over the past four months.

    He hasn't changed his position or told lies. He's saying that Ireland has a good safety record compared with the UK and US, but that doesn't mean we can't improve. The level of deaths are low, but there are legitimate concerns in the way pregnant women are treated in this country because of the 8th. Women have died because of it, and more would have died if they didn't have the option to go to the UK.


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    #9259
    Killester1
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    bubblypop wrote: »
    He didn't hang around too long, so I can't ask him

    My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.


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    #9260
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
    I trust older women who have life experience.

    My mother and her sisters - ages range from 83 to 76 - with 13 children and who knows how many grand-children/great grandchildren between them are all radically pro-choice. Indeed, they all believe men shouldn't even be allowed to vote on this, I disagree with them on that.

    Their life experience has led them to their pro-choice views - because they had no choices.


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    #9261
    Wrongway1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,376 ✭✭✭Wrongway1985


    Killester1 wrote: »
    My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

    Are you sure you never asked your mother?


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    #9262
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Killester1 wrote: »
    My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

    Nope. You're alive because you're alive. You mother might have had a miscarriage, and then you wouldn't be here either.

    You being grateful for being alive shouldn't mean that someone else, a woman or a girl who finds herself pregnant, should be forced to continue a completely separate pregnancy to the one that created you.


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    #9263
    groovyg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    kylith wrote: »
    You mean the girl who didn’t know what was happening and who didn’t have a CHOICE in the matter?

    Anti abortion groups got got involved in that C case as well
    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/judge-jails-c-case-rapist-for-dreadful-evil-act-26165826.html


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    #9264
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

    https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

    Addressed in responses.

    https://twitter.com/Fedigan7/status/990131559792611333?s=19


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    #9265
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    threescompany wrote: »
    Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

    This sounds far fetched. Women tend not to tell others they have had an abortion. Read in her shoes stories if you don't believe me. I don't believe there are women opening up to a pro-lifer and then saying they didn't use contraception. I don't see mention of men in this post either. Should both parties not discuss contraception prior to sex?

    The tone of this post is very much punish those irresponsible women.


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    #9266
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,167 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
    I trust older women who have life experience.

    They will no longer be affected by the 8th.

    Those most unaffected by the 8th want to keep it the most.


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    #9267
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Dr Peter Boylan telling lies now given he said this last December.

    https://twitter.com/doctors4lifeire/status/989988955008401408?s=21

    If your only measure of good maternal outcome is "the mother didn't die" then Ireland performs pretty well. How well, I'm admittedly a little suspicious of because there are differences in how different countries count their statistics.

    Personally "mother didn't die" is not a satisfactory measure. I happen to think things like long term health impacts on the mother are also very important. Congrats you survived, sorry about the blindness, isn't exactly a great result.

    Further our maternal mortality rate is achieved in the context of most women whose health or life is in danger being able to access abortion albeit by travelling to the UK. Lauding excellent maternal mortality statistics in the context of that safety valve is suspect at best.


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    #9268
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Killester1 wrote: »
    My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

    I'm adopted and pro choice.


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    #9269
    Killester1
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Killester1


    swampgas wrote: »
    Nope. You're alive because you're alive. You mother might have had a miscarriage, and then you wouldn't be here either.

    You being grateful for being alive shouldn't mean that someone else, a woman or a girl who finds herself pregnant, should be forced to continue a completely separate pregnancy to the one that created you.

    Why do you have more empathy for the woman and less for the unborn ? Just asking.


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    #9270
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,581 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Killester1 wrote: »
    Igotadose wrote: »

    What study was this? Could you send the link? Anybody I know that had an abortion .... regret it to this day and the loss has played havoc with their minds.
    Many. Heres one https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

    Google abortion regret see what you find.

    The women I know all say the overwhelming emotion is relief


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    #9271
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Killester1 wrote: »
    Why do you have more empathy for the woman and less for the unborn ? Just asking.

    Because the woman already has a life and has lived for countless years before hand. Probably already has children who have lives. Why should the unborn have equal rights to the woman.


This discussion has been closed.
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