The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Killester1

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Are you sure you never asked your mother?

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

Killester1

Igotadose wrote: »

Killester1 wrote: »

Many. Heres one https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

Google abortion regret see what you find.

The women I know all say the overwhelming emotion is relief

Yeah and the women I know say differ ....

amdublin

Killester1 wrote: »

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

Is it a feeling or your mother actually wanted to have an abortion?

Anyway my mother could have been hit by a car when she was pregnant.

I'm here now. Like you. If i wasnt here id be none the wiser. Like you.

joe40

Killester1 wrote: »

bubblypop wrote: »

He didn't hang around too long, so I can't ask him

My birth father did a runner too.... but I feel because there was no abortion in Ireland, that’s why I’m alive today, for which I am sooo grateful.

If you were conceived as a result of a condom bursting, would you be opposing to contraception now.
It is an analagous "what if" scenario

NuMarvel

RobertKK wrote: »

No it is a consistent theme that People who state their position, that Yes has fallen under 50% and the thing is will this trend continue.
Even in the Irish Times today they were on the canvass scene in Cork city with both sides and the conclusion was it could go either way.

If you're looking at people who state their position, i.e. say whether they are voting yes or no, Yes consistently polls at the 60% mark.

The fact of the matter is that this poll is another big blow for the No campaign. They've had a much earlier start, because they were always going to campaign for a No, no matter what was going to be on the ballot paper. Yet this is the largest gain they've had; 4%. By any objective evaluation, given the amount of time and money they've spent on billboards, online ads, posters, and marches, that's a very poor result.

I absolutely agree it could go either way on the day, but that will be because of the type of campaign the Yes groups run, and it'll have little to do with No groups. If the Yes campaign keeps focused and runs a campaign along the lines of the debate last night, it'll pass.

Wrongway1985

Killester1 wrote: »

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

In a time when contraception wasn't available! Ultimately she didn't use unsavory methods to not have you either, while I appreciate your existence isn't it fair to say your reasoning is largely based on assumption especially when the 60s was prior to the 8th amendment so played no part in you personally being born anyway.

NuMarvel

Killester1 wrote: »

It was the sixties. The uk were refusing Irish girls abortions due to the high volumes and sending them back home ....... where abortion wasn’t an option.

It isn't the 60s anymore. In reality, abortion is an option today, and it will continue to be one after the referendum, no matter which way it goes.

The decision isn't if Irish women can access abortion, because they do it here and abroad. It's if they can access legal, and by extension, safe abortion here. And I have yet to hear a valid argument against that.

Bannasidhe

amdublin wrote: »

Is it a feeling or your mother actually wanted to have an abortion?

Anyway my mother could have been hit by a car when she was pregnant.

I'm here now. Like you. If i wasnt here id be none the wiser. Like you.

I shouldn't be here at all.

After my Mother nearly miscarried my brother she was told she shouldn't have any more children. But Ireland in the 60s .... so she had a miscarriage 2 years later. 3 1/2 years later accidental me came along. Turns out my Mother had cervical cancer, at the age of 36 she had to have a hysterectomy, chemo, and all the joys of cancer treatment in the 1970s to save her life. She'd had it when pregnant with my brother but her symptoms were dismissed by doctors.

I have lifelong medical issues as a result. I was born legally blind but thanks to a rare female consultant who took a chance with radical new experimental treatment and a determined Grandmother who refused to let the authorities put me in a home for the blind and walked 5 miles twice a day to the hospital (and paid for it) I gained some vision.

If, my Mother had aborted me I wouldn't know anything about it because I would never have existed, and if the doctors had listened to her originally I would never have been conceived in the first place and she wouldn't have suffered years of depression and mental health issues stemming from what she went through. She might have actually been happy and enjoyed her life. But she was never given any choices.

Moiratat

RobertKK wrote: »

It is clear for the majority of older people that retain/No is the compassionate position to be on, who some on the Yes side have attacked with ageism comments.
I don’t know you, and it is not my place to judge you as an individual even if I did as to make out I am somehow perfect.
I think yes for compassion is a lie as most of the abortions would be healthy women aborting healthy unborn. I think a lot of older wise people would also see through this Yes slogan lie.

So my experience is invalid to you because of what I have learned from it? Do I not deserve compassion as I was a healthy woman and my baby was healthy too?

Igotadose

Killester1 wrote: »

Igotadose wrote: »

Killester1 wrote: »

Many. Heres one https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

Google abortion regret see what you find.

The women I know all say the overwhelming emotion is relief

Yeah and the women I know say differ ....

Anecdotes are not data. Public policy should be data driven imo.

NuMarvel

RobertKK wrote: »

Young women most in favour of repeal. Older women most in favour of retain.
I trust older women who have life experience.

Odd how you left out that the majority of older women support repeal and legislating for 12 weeks:

39% in favour
36% against
15% don't know or won't say.

In fact, there's no gender or age group where the No vote has majority support.

Bannasidhe

Moiratat wrote: »

So my experience is invalid to you because of what I have learned from it? Do I not deserve compassion as I was a healthy woman and my baby was healthy too?

I'm sorry to say that compassion for living, breathing, women seems in short supply from those who scream 'Love Both' - as does compassion for born children whose lives are difficult (to put it mildly) due to poverty, homelessness, illness, disability.

Yeah_Right

PhoenixParker wrote: »

If your only measure of good maternal outcome is "the mother didn't die" then Ireland performs pretty well. How well, I'm admittedly a little suspicious of because there are differences in how different countries count their statistics.

Personally "mother didn't die" is not a satisfactory measure. I happen to think things like long term health impacts on the mother are also very important. Congrats you survived, sorry about the blindness, isn't exactly a great result.

Further our maternal mortality rate is achieved in the context of most women whose health or life is in danger being able to access abortion albeit by travelling to the UK. Lauding excellent maternal mortality statistics in the context of that safety valve is suspect at best.

Imagine if that was the standard for successful brain surgery.
Doctor- the surgery was a success.
Parents- our son is in a permanent vegetative state!
Doctor- but he's alive. Success!!

Sofiztikated

Spoke with a Yes campaigner on the street about an hour ago in Cavan.

Smart, articulate woman, who calmly explained to a gent her position, while I was there.

Said they get fierce abuse yesterday when setting up their stall, so much so that the head of the local No campaign came over and apologised. Both agreed that no matter the outcome, everyone still has to live here afterwards.

up for anything

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Spoke with a Yes campaigner on the street about an hour ago in Cavan.

Smart, articulate woman, who calmly explained to a gent her position, while I was there.

Said they get fierce abuse yesterday when setting up their stall, so much so that the head of the local No campaign came over and apologised. Both agreed that no matter the outcome, everyone still has to live here afterwards.

Who gave them the abuse did she say? What kinds of people? Old? Young? Male? Female?

Sofiztikated

up for anything wrote: »

Who gave them the abuse did she say? What kinds of people? Old? Young? Male? Female?

Didn't say, and didn't ask.

SusieBlue

threescompany wrote: »

I believe her point was that she believes the very act of abortion is wrong...... she was going to have an abortion but after discussion and thinking about it, she didn’t and now she is so glad she didn’t...... she was trying to convey there are other CHOICES

Yes, she chose not to. A choice she is advocating not allowing other women have.
Great that it all worked out for her and she has a happy life. Others aren’t so lucky.
Other people’s choices shouldn’t be limited by her opinions.

Killester1

amdublin wrote: »

Is it a feeling or your mother actually wanted to have an abortion?

Anyway my mother could have been hit by a car when she was pregnant.

I'm here now. Like you. If i wasnt here id be none the wiser. Like you.[/

Comparing death by car versus death by abortion isn’t quite comparing like with like.

SusieBlue

threescompany wrote: »

Of course it “dawns” on women to use contraception but many many women CHOOSE not to, for whatever reason. That’s a fact. They take risks & hope for the best. Anyone I know that’s been to the UK has had unprotected sex and taken a risk and ended up with an unplanned pregnancy .... why should I vote to repeal the 8th to enable their abortions ? Not a hope

Well the three women I know who travelled to the UK we’re doing so as a result of failed contraceptive. See what I did there?

Do you think forcing someone who doesn’t want a baby into motherhood is in the best interests of the child? Do you not see how you were weaponizing these babies into punishments for their careless mothers?
And please don’t mention contraception, because advice about how they should have used a rubber is of no use to someone who is already pregnant.

Why should you not vote to repeal? Cos someone might have an abortion you don’t approve of?
What’s it to you, seriously? Are you going to assist in the bringing up of this child you are forcing into the world?

Ken.

Mod-Seeing as how this thread is going to hit 10k posts very soon I've closed the poll. Will open a new one on the new thread.

Killester1

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

In a time when contraception wasn't available! Ultimately she didn't use unsavory methods to not have you either, while I appreciate your existence isn't it fair to say your reasoning is largely based on assumption especially when the 60s was prior to the 8th amendment so played no part in you personally being born anyway.

We have contraception today and the morning after pill .... now you want 12 weeks too as another form !!

smokingman

A lot of these "abortion up to 6 months" posters going up...for all their moral superiority, the no side sure are making baby jesus cry with all the lies.
http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-six-months-3975235-Apr2018/

SusieBlue

Killester1 wrote: »

We have contraception today and the morning after pill .... now you want 12 weeks too as another form !!

Contraception isn’t 100% reliable.
The MAP only works if you haven’t already ovulated that month. If you’ve already ovulated, it does nothing.
Which you won’t find out till you pee on a stick and get a positive test result.
And regardless, those options are of no help or use to someone who is already pregnant and having a crisis. The horse has bolted.

swampgas

Killester1 wrote: »

Why do you have more empathy for the woman and less for the unborn ? Just asking.

Wow. Are you telling me that if a woman you cared about was distraught about being 6 weeks pregnant, you would be more interested in forcing her to continue her unwanted pregnancy than you would about her happiness and well-being?

Do you actually see women as people at all?

.

Killester1

Killester1 wrote: »

We have contraception today and the morning after pill .... now you want 12 weeks too as another form !!

Not every woman can take the MAP.
and no contraception is 100%

Bannasidhe

Killester1 wrote: »

We have contraception today and the morning after pill .... now you want 12 weeks too as another form !!

You need to educate yourself about human reproduction and the preventative of...

To get you started :
Contraception aims to prevent conception. It is not 100% effective.

Morning after pill aims to prevent implantation after conception has taken place. It is not 100% effective and there is a limit to how often it can be used.

Abortion up to 12 weeks is via tablets and mimics a miscarriage ie after conception and implantation. It occurs well before a foetus is either sentient or capable of life outside the womb. It is not a contraception.

kylith

Can anyone on the No side please explain to me where the compassion is here?

https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/posts/160910714583354:0

PopePalpatine

kylith wrote: »

Can anyone on the No side please explain to me where the compassion is here?

https://www.facebook.com/RepealTheEighth/posts/160910714583354:0

Shure you can't spell "stillborn" without "born" and that's all that matters.

lillycakes2

I feel abortion should be allowed in certain criteria such as cases of rape , certain fetal abnormalities etc but the government haven't made this referendum about these types of cases.
They have made it to mean we would be welcoming abortion on demand,for any reason before 12 weeks. I don't agree with that, Total game changer.

Too many people will continue to have sex irresponsibly and use abortion then to avoid having a baby- which is a human life.
I would vote yes if it was for specific cases but seen as this referendum is just going to open up the flood gates to abortion for any reason at all, I will be voting no.
I would vote yes if the criteria was different.

swampgas

lillycakes2 wrote: »

I feel abortion should be allowed in certain criteria such as cases of rape , certain fetal abnormalities etc but the government haven't made this referendum about these types of cases.
They have made it to mean we would be welcoming abortion on demand,for any reason before 12 weeks. I don't agree with that, Total game changer.

Too many people will continue to have sex irresponsibly and use abortion then to avoid having a baby- which is a human life.
I would vote yes if it was for specific cases but seen as this referendum is just going to open up the flood gates to abortion for any reason at all, I will be voting no.
I would vote yes if the criteria was different.

How do you feel about the right to travel? Repealing the 8th won't mean more abortions, it will mean that people seeking them will be able to have them supervised by their own doctors or by other local medical staff.

There will be no opening of the floodgates - whoever is telling you that there will be is flat out lying and scaremongering.

.