The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Water John

So are we all now queuing up for a divorce?

PhoenixParker

Water John wrote: »

So are we all now queuing up for a divorce?

Obviously, how else can I get gay married?

amdublin

amdublin wrote: »

Why do the No side think irish women are mad for having abortions, or will be mad for having them if they are available on Irish soil.

When you think of it that's simply not our style.

I won't call it crisis pregnancies. But how how many unplanned pregnancies do you know? How many of your friends have unplanned pregnancies?

Many many of my friends babies were unplanned. Different scenarios - I've a single mum friend, I've a very young mum when she had her baby friend, and ive two friends whose third babies were unplanned.
I also know tons of friends of friends who have unplanned babies.

Just one of my friends (very briefly) considered an abortion at the time. And it wasn't the young mum or the single mum. 

The default for most Irish people is Not Terminate. It's have the baby.

Why do people think this will change??


For feks sake just trust women willya!!!

Well maybe you have to look at the some of the people/organisations who make up the retain group to get an answer to that.

Take Justin Barrett for example, youth defence apparently now claim he never had a leadership role in the organisation, bit strange  as hes on record as having been so, as are his and their links to neo nazi organisations

John McGuirk a f*ckwit since his student days, enough said.

The Sherlocks, well pretty much anti everything 

David Quinn, Breda O'Brien just as bad, and religion hasn't ever had a positive view of women having power or choice.

Basically you've a group of people who believe in discrimination against people as a fundamental core of their being. People that twisted can't fathom other people not being as twisted as they are.

_Dara_

Mrsmum wrote: »

Ok we can just go around and around. You know my views at this stage. I think it's wrong to abort healthy babies and so I'm not going to vote for it. I almost envy people in a way who are ok with it. If enough of people think that way then the 8th will be gone and so be it.

Goodnight and thank you for keeping it respectful.

But okay with it happening as long as it’s on foreign soil? Unless you don’t think Irish women should keep their current right to travel to get an abortion?

HonestKevin

DubInMeath wrote: »

Basically you've a group of people who believe in discrimination against people as a fundamental core of their being.

With all due respect, the entire pro-repeal campaign is based on discrimination. The 2 main excuses for bringing in abortion is to deal with cases of rape and incest. This is blatant discrimination against children based solely on how they were conceived.

Its like 1950's Ireland all over again. Back then we judged children based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived out of wedlock). Now we are judging children again based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived through incest or rape).

We are again creating two classes of children - those who were conceived "the right way" and those who were conceived "the wrong way".

gctest50

Welcome to boards.ie

Yer Da sells Avon

HonestKevin wrote: »

With all due respect, the entire pro-repeal campaign is based on discrimination. The 2 main excuses for bringing in abortion is to deal with cases of rape and incest. This is blatant discrimination against children based solely on how they were conceived.

Its like 1950's Ireland all over again. Back then we judged children based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived out of wedlock). Now we are judging children again based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived through incest or rape).

We are again creating two classes of children - those who were conceived "the right way" and those who were conceived "the wrong way".

Honestly, HonestKevin, your post is dishonest nonsense. Rape and incest are not the two main reasons for giving women the right to choose whether to remain pregnant or not.

_Dara_

HonestKevin wrote: »

With all due respect, the entire pro-repeal campaign is based on discrimination. The 2 main excuses for bringing in abortion is to deal with cases of rape and incest. This is blatant discrimination against children based solely on how they were conceived.

Its like 1950's Ireland all over again. Back then we judged children based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived out of wedlock). Now we are judging children again based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived through incest or rape).

We are again creating two classes of children - those who were conceived "the right way" and those who were conceived "the wrong way".

With all due respect, very few repealers are that restrictive. For many, most actually, the definition of ‘crisis pregnancy’ is much broader than just cases of rape and incest. So not only is the “entire” campaign NOT based on that, it isn’t even close.

But you know that. :cool:

I expect the post I’m writing here won’t be here tomorrow so I won’t expend any more energy on it.

HonestKevin

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Rape and incest are not the two main reasons for giving women the right to choose whether to remain pregnant or not.

We have been constantly told about rape and incest over the last 24 months as one of the main reasons why we need to bring in abortion. We have been told we need to deal with "these" children.

Children conceived as a result of incest weren't conceived in a "respectable" way. And we don't allow children in this country who were not conceived in a "respectable" way. Of course, all the people on the pro-repeal side were conceived in a "respectable" way. So they know best.

Nice to know that 2018 Ireland consists of children who were conceived in a "respectable" way and those conceived in an "unrespectable" way. What a progressive Ireland we live in.

_Dara_

^^^^ You... haven’t done your research, have you? I wouldn’t be “With all due respect”ing anyone there, Kev. A little knowledge truly is a dangerous thing.

Rape and incest are two of many reasons why repealers want the 8th repealed.

as of now i think every person with the time, energy and intellect to debate professionally-undecided virgin boards.ie accounts on this topic should be engaged in any of the following productive activities instead:

- writing/tweeting rte and the irish times asking them why they will not acknowledge that the no campaign has been conducted dishonestly, callously, viciously, with mysterious resources of dubious provenance, with underhand tactics, with fake/anonymous/misrepresentative actors both online and in real life, in their advertising, their posters, their online activities

- writing, tweeting rte and the irish times to ask them where is the investigative journalism into the resourcing and strategy of the no organisations and why the repeated uncovering of ruses, lies, scams and fraud in both conduct and financing is not front page news as conspiracy in the build up to an important national referendum

-writing, tweeting rte and the irishtimes to ask them where the editorial function is evidenced in merely reporting with 50/50 balance the views of both sides of this issue given the fundamental lack of substance in the arguments of one side and fundamentally subversive and ugly approach taken and proven to be taken by that side


the station of the state and the paper of record are disgracefully remiss in their function and duty and we should be screaming it from the rooftops

HonestKevin

_Dara_ wrote: »

Rape and incest are two of many reasons why repealers want the 8th repealed.

What's wrong with a child that was conceived as a result of incest? No one has power over how they were conceived.

I guess they are not "respectable".

_Dara_

HonestKevin wrote: »

What's wrong with a child that was conceived as a result of incest? No one has power over how they were conceived.

Well, nobody has power over any conception, whatever that means. A conception is a sperm and an egg liking the look of each other. Who’d have power over it?

Do you need to see Homer Simpson’s re-enactment of the moment of conception? It could help you.

HonestKevin

HonestKevin wrote: »

What's wrong with a child that was conceived as a result of incest? No one has power over how they were conceived.

are you an advocate of forcing a rape victim to carry the issue of rape to term?

also you should not type child if you mean foetus. as far as i know- which is 100% certain- theres no proposal to abort children.

welcome to boards.ie by the way.

which as far as im concerned can include itself in the list of remiss organisations noted above in how it deals with re-regs & bots, the insistence that clear professional troll accounts be treated as if they are good-faith real people, etc etc etc

shame shame shame tbh

HonestKevin

I think children who were conceived as a result of incest are entitled to redress after this referendum for the way they have been spoken about for the last 24 months.

Hopefully pro-repeal people will take as much of an interest in them as they have of children from mother and baby homes.

_Dara_

Here you go, Kevster. Hope it helps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLBP3eMjQE

Yer Da sells Avon

HonestKevin wrote: »

We have been constantly told about rape and incest over the last 24 months as one of the main reasons why we need to bring in abortion. We have been told we need to deal with "these" children.

Children conceived as a result of incest weren't conceived in a "respectable" way. And we don't allow children in this country who were not conceived in a "respectable" way. Of course, all the people on the pro-repeal side were conceived in a "respectable" way. So they know best.

Nice to know that 2018 Ireland consists of children who were conceived in a "respectable" way and those conceived in an "unrespectable" way. What a progressive Ireland we live in.

Nobody, apart from you, has singled out rape and incest. You are the only one talking about children being conceived in a "respectable" or "unrespectable" way. People seeking the repeal of the 8th Amendment simply want women to have a choice about their own bodies, regardless of how they got pregnant.

HonestKevin

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Nobody, apart from you, has singled out rape and incest. You are the only one talking about children being conceived in a "respectable" or "unrespectable" way. People seeking the repeal of the 8th Amendment simply want women to have a choice about their own bodies, regardless of how they got pregnant.

Why have pregnancies as a result of incest been specifically brought up by the pro-repeal side throughout this campaign as a reason why we need abortion in Ireland? I've noticed that they have never given a reason for this.

If they are trying to make the point that some children as a result of incest are disabled (most children as a result of incest are healthy) then this is blatant discrimination against disabled people.

Or is the reason simply that they don't like the idea of "these" children. Like 1950's Ireland didn't like the idea of children conceived out of wedlock. 2018 Ireland doesn't like the idea of children conceived as a result of incest. These children aren't "respectable". And we don't allow children who are not "respectable" in this country, now do we.

_Dara_

Incest hasn’t been mentioned that much and it’s usually in the context of rape. Wanting to abort a foetus conceived in rape hasn’t nothing to do with discrimination.

I might as well be typing boopity beepity schmoopity schmoop for all it matters.

Anyhoo, these posts will be gone tomorrow so there’s that.

Yer Da sells Avon

HonestKevin wrote: »

Why have pregnancies as a result of incest been specifically brought up by the pro-repeal side throughout this campaign as a reason why we need abortion in Ireland? I've noticed that they have never given a reason for this.

If they are trying to make the point that some children as a result of incest are disabled (most children as a result of incest are healthy) then this is blatant discrimination against disabled people.

Or is the reason simply that they don't like the idea of "these" children. Like 1950's Ireland didn't like the idea of children conceived out of wedlock. 2018 Ireland doesn't like the idea of children conceived as a result of incest. These children aren't "respectable". And we don't allow children who are not "respectable" in this country, now do we.

Most of the those whom I've seen bringing up rape and incest are on the anti-repeal side, but are willing to make exceptions for 'hard cases' like rape and incest or fatal fetal abnormalities.

HonestKevin

_Dara_ wrote: »

Incest hasn’t been mentioned that much and it’s usually in the context of rape. Wanting to abort a foetus conceived in rape hasn’t nothing to do with discrimination.

I might as well be typing boopity beepity schmoopity schmoop for all it matters.

Anyhoo, these posts will be gone tomorrow so there’s that.

Imagine there is someone who was conceived as a result of rape viewing this thread. You are saying it would have been ok to abort them as an unborn child but not yourself. You were conceived in a "respectable" way and they were not conceived in a "respectable" way.

That's discrimination no matter how you try to disguise it. You are "respectable" and they are not.

_Dara_

HonestKevin wrote: »

Imagine there is derpy derpy derpity derp.

Nah. You’re grrraaaaand.

Oh but I’m actually okay with the idea of myself being aborted. I’d be none the wiser. Don’t construct an argument based on an assumption. Lil pro tip from me to you.

erica74

HonestKevin wrote: »

We have been constantly told about rape and incest over the last 24 months as one of the main reasons why we need to bring in abortion. We have been told we need to deal with "these" children.

Children conceived as a result of incest weren't conceived in a "respectable" way. And we don't allow children in this country who were not conceived in a "respectable" way. Of course, all the people on the pro-repeal side were conceived in a "respectable" way. So they know best.

Nice to know that 2018 Ireland consists of children who were conceived in a "respectable" way and those conceived in an "unrespectable" way. What a progressive Ireland we live in.

What are you actually talking about?

Children conceived as a result of incest weren't conceived in a "respectable" way.

Are you trying to say that is a subjective view?

HonestKevin wrote: »

What's wrong with a child that was conceived as a result of incest? No one has power over how they were conceived.

I guess they are not "respectable".

If a girl or woman is raped by a family member and becomes pregnant as a result, she should have every option and support available to her here in Ireland.

HonestKevin wrote: »

Imagine there is someone who was conceived as a result of rape viewing this thread. You are saying it would have been ok to abort them as an unborn child but not yourself. You were conceived in a "respectable" way and they were not conceived in a "respectable" way.

That's discrimination no matter how you try to disguise it. You are "respectable" and they are not.

Imagine a girl or woman who was raped by her brother during her childhood and had an abortion as a result is reading this thread and sees you talking about "respectable" and "unrespectable"?

Annasopra

Achasanai wrote: »

How do we think it will go over all though? Should we be getting worried about the polls or is this normal for this period of a campaign?

Do not be complacent. I am looking at canvass data. Far from certain.

Annasopra

amdublin wrote: »

It will impact my emotional well-being if repeal doesn't pass. Like I will be devastated on the day. There will be tears.

And it will take me some while to get over it.

If No wins at last they are kind of prepared for that. It will be a massive shock for us Yes side.

But I am out canvassing every week. I am hearing resounding Yes on the doorsteps.

Every yes counts on the day. Please tell your family and friends how important it is for you that they get out on the day and vote for you.

Your area (south dublin) will be a yes. It is outside Dublin that is genuinely going to bring no vote up.

amdublin

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Your area (south dublin) will be a yes. It is outside Dublin that is genuinely going to bring no vote up.

I hear you. But no use one area saying yes unless yes overall.

I am nervous. But overall am positive that repeal will win. I think the majority of ireland wants change and compassion for women

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't read the vast majority of this thread - nor do I intend to, since I've probably read the same thing in the 1st thread.

I'm interested in how people feel about allowing the Government to have full control over future legislation in the event of the 8th amendment being repealed?

For me, that is the ultimate question that will sway those who are undecided. It is a level of decision making that I am unwilling to give this, or any future Government, just as I was unwilling to allow that level of power in the Seanad referendum, despite being gravely unhappy at how that particular organisation is run.

Fine by my. We elect the legislature to legislate. The 8th has to go. The stories of "in her shoes" are a shame on our society. I genuinely cannot understand how anyone would vote no and continue to allow this to happen.

Hannibal_Smith

HonestKevin wrote: »

With all due respect, the entire pro-repeal campaign is based on discrimination. The 2 main excuses for bringing in abortion is to deal with cases of rape and incest. This is blatant discrimination against children based solely on how they were conceived.

Its like 1950's Ireland all over again. Back then we judged children based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived out of wedlock). Now we are judging children again based on how they were conceived (if they were conceived through incest or rape).

We are again creating two classes of children - those who were conceived "the right way" and those who were conceived "the wrong way".

They're not my main two reasons (not excuses) for voting for repeal. I have one reason for voting, which is to allow a woman medical treatment she chooses.

Using rape as an example of why a woman would chose abortion is not discrimination against the child. It is giving the woman, who has been through a horrific attack, a choice in whether she wants to put her body through the further trauma of pregnancy and child birth which could further exacerbate the post traumatic stress she might be battling.

There's a difference in saying, you're pregnant as a result of rape you must have an abortion and offering a woman a choice in what to do.

It's nothing like being conceived the right or wrong way. It's about the woman. In the 1950s it was the shame the woman brought on the family that was the issue also. Times haven't changed much.

ELM327

This discussion about incest and the "acceptableness" of children is brought in by a newly registered poster on the NO side.
It has not been introduced by the REPEAL side and in all reality I contend it has little to nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Hannibal_Smith

HonestKevin wrote: »

Imagine there is someone who was conceived as a result of rape viewing this thread. You are saying it would have been ok to abort them as an unborn child but not yourself. You were conceived in a "respectable" way and they were not conceived in a "respectable" way.

That's discrimination no matter how you try to disguise it. You are "respectable" and they are not.

If I was the child conceived as a result of a rape, no I wouldn't believe I was conceived in a respectable way. Unless you think rape is a respectable act?