The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Edward M

david75 wrote: »

Weirder question for you. Right this very moment outside DIT Bolton street there’s an anti choice demonstration from *the Canadian* Pro life group ICBR.

Where is all the money coming from to ship these groups in? We know they’re doing this cos they can’t find people here and particularly young people, so it’s vastly expensive yet they’re doing it.

Also youth defence and their other branches are heavily fundraising and none registered with SIPO

I don't see that much, that's why I'm curious.
Out here we don't see the same level of campaigning as in the urban centres, I wouldn't be even in Cavan town very often from here.
I doubt we will have many, if any door to door canvassers here, reason, I don't know if any would want to be showing their position locally on this maybe, and I suppose door to door rurally would be hard for strangers to cover.
The most likely canvassers out here will be priests at mass, not hard to figure which side they'll be promoting!

david75

Edward M wrote: »

I don't see that much, that's why I'm curious.
Out here we don't see the same level of campaigning as in the urban centres, I wouldn't be even in Cavan town very often from here.
I doubt we will have many, if any door to door canvassers here, reason, I don't know if any would want to be showing their position locally on this maybe, and I suppose door to door rurally would be hard for strangers to cover.
The most likely canvassers out here will be priests at mass, not hard to figure which side they'll be promoting!

That’s interesting. Did you have any canvassers either side for marrriage equality?

Neyite

marsbar1 wrote: »

In the old thread people were asking me what old values of Ireland I was speaking of that I think will go if abortion is allowed on Irish soil against the catholic church. Ireland is a friendly place where people help you and talk to you, like in England 30 years ago. England has been invaded now by many other religions and people, crime is up morals are down, there is no community spirit anymore. Its a horrible place being changed beyond recognition by political correctness, and the loony left.
Ireland is a lovely place, I think attached to the old catholic values are all the nice things that gels the goodness of Ireland together. We have already had enough attacks on Irish culture as it is. This is yet another thing that will send Ireland on the same path to ruin in society as England is on, and for that matter a lot of Europe including Sweden, France and Germany.
Yes some of you talk about the abuse of the church in the past like is is some justification to allow abortion. That ought to stop and be investigated and never happen again.

You are wrong. So very wrong.

Where I live, people still check on their elderly neighbour, offer help with farming, clear pathways from snow, look out for each other, look out for each other's kids, and community spirit is thriving - well all work hard to make it a safe and welcoming community for all people in it.

We just got rid of the worst parts of 'old Ireland' which was the raging misogyny, the incarceration of women and children, the trafficking of children, the stranglehold of the church, the mistrust of foreigners, gay people and people of different religions, the corruption and abuse and we kept best bits.

And my part of the country is not unique. There's many neighbourhoods that are the same whether urban or rural.

Abortion didn't cause the woes you describe in the UK but I suppose it stands to reason that you'd find some convoluted way to pin it on women, given your views.

ohnonotgmail

david75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/daithigor/status/976097289306624001?s=21

As a complete aside I could never understood why she used Ui Bhriain instead of Ni Bhriain.

david75

Neyite wrote: »

You are wrong. So very wrong.

Where I live, people still check on their elderly neighbour, offer help with farming, clear pathways from snow, look out for each other, look out for each other's kids, and community spirit is thriving - well all work hard to make it a safe and welcoming community for all people in it.

We just got rid of the worst parts of 'old Ireland' which was the raging misogyny, the incarceration of women and children, the trafficking of children, the stranglehold of the church, the mistrust of foreigners, gay people and people of different religions, the corruption and abuse and we kept best bits.

And my part of the country is not unique. There's many neighbourhoods that are the same whether urban or rural.

Abortion didn't cause the woes you describe in the UK but I suppose it stands to reason that you'd find some convoluted way to pin it on women, given your views.

I’d echo that. I live in the city Center and have elderly neighbors and check on them often and do their lawn for them and bring up all their glass to the recycling n all. We’re still a country of good people. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Catholicism. At all.

Edward M

david75 wrote: »

That’s interesting. Did you have any canvassers either side for marrriage equality?

I can't honestly remember any at the door, I wouldn't be home much during the day anyway, but I seen none here, nor did anyone here mention anyone calling.
We would have gotten literature from both sides in the post as well as the official govt leaflet outlining both sides, but that'd be about it.
There would have been canvassers handing out literature in town too, outside the major shops and in the main street.

kylith

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

As a complete aside I could never understood why she used Ui Bhriain instead of Ni Bhriain.

If she married in she’s Ui, if she was born an O’Brien she’s a Ni.

ohnonotgmail

kylith wrote: »

If she married in she’s Ui, if she was born now O’Brien she’s a Ni.

Oh right, i never knew that. Cheers.

david75

Edward M wrote: »

I can't honestly remember any at the door, I wouldn't be home much during the day anyway, but I seen none here, nor did anyone here mention anyone calling.
We would have gotten literature from both sides in the post as well as the official govt leaflet outlining both sides, but that'd be about it.
There would have been canvassers handing out literature in town too, outside the major shops and in the main street.

I’d imagine it would be tricky to be a canvasser for either side in a smaller town or village. Everyone would kind of know each other no? I know in marref both sides bussed canvassers out to rural areas/smaller towns.

Might be the same thing here.
PLC deffo seem more active on it though despite there nit even being any official wording yet.
I think they’ve started too early tbh. In my experience of canvassing it almost makes no difference. People almost entirely have their minds made up already. It’s rare you’d get someone confused and undecided.

Sofiztikated

david75 wrote: »

I’d imagine it would be tricky to be a canvasser for either side in a smaller town or village. Everyone would kind of know each other no? I know in marref both sides bussed canvassers out to rural areas/smaller towns.

Might be the same thing here.
PLC deffo seem more active on it though despite there nit even being any official wording yet.
I think they’ve started too early tbh. In my experience of canvassing it almost makes no difference. People almost entirely have their minds made up already. It’s rare you’d get someone confused and undecided.

Well, I can say that the ProLife© were in Cavan town, about 3 or 4 weeks ago, with their vans with graphics, and nice glossy leaflets. Haven't seen anything door to door yet, from either side.

EDIT: And they weren't locals. 2 northern accents, and 2 Americans.

Zubeneschamali

david75 wrote: »

PLC deffo seem more active on it though despite there nit even being any official wording yet.

As noted earlier in the thread: they were always going to campaign for a No vote no matter what the proposal was.

FutureGuy

FutureGuy wrote: »

To the people in favour of keeping thh eighth amendment.

Your partner/sister/best friend/daughter/granddaughter are expecting. Week 18, the anomaly scan reveals a number of issues and an amnio a few days later reveals a fatal abnormality.

They do their research and consult with a number of doctors and are told that the pregnancy is very unlikely to go full term. If it does, the baby that is born is going to die with in one or two days, maybe a week, and after a bit of research, it's clear that they will be incredibly distressing days - heart attacks, strokes, apnea, constant agonizing pain and discomfort before eventually turning blue and dying. In addition, the mother's life is at risk for a serious complication if the pregnancy continues into the third trimester.

What's the plan?

I posted this two days ago, and those two days, we have seen quite a few people hoping to retain the eighth post on the forums.

Not one has even attempted to respond the above.

Deafening silence.

NuMarvel

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

As noted earlier in the thread: they were always going to campaign for a No vote no matter what the proposal was.

I imagine their strategy meeting was pretty quick and went something like this:

What will be our position on..
No.
But I haven't finished what I wa..
Still No.
Even if....
Yep. It's a No.
Well, that's that sorted. Any other bu..
No.
You're doing this on purpose now, aren't you?
.... Yes.

david75

FutureGuy wrote: »

I posted this two days ago, and those two days, we have seen quite a few people hoping to retain the eighth post on the forums.

Not one has even attempted to respond the above.

Deafening silence.

Head over to this thread and ask that same question. You’ll be flooded with the worst kind of insane replies in no time.
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057829719/95/#post106496329

robarmstrong

FutureGuy wrote: »

I posted this two days ago, and those two days, we have seen quite a few people hoping to retain the eighth post on the forums.

Not one has even attempted to respond the above.

Deafening silence.

To be brutally honest I wouldn't expect a response. They tend to pick and choose what they respond to rebuttals about their claims/statements and have only recently (thankfully though coz we were getting nowhere) began to slowly respond at the intervention of some mods who are attempting to get them to debate rather than drop controversial comments with no facts attached and run out of the thread.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

ohnonotgmail

david75 wrote: »

Head over to this thread and ask that same question. You’ll be flooded with the worst kind of insane replies in no time.
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057829719/95/#post106496329

why did you make me look at that thread?

david75

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why did you make me look at that thread?

I’m sorry. This thread has nothing on it. That one is the hotbed for the ultimate NO hardliners.

Oldtree

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So the second reading passes 110 for, 32 against.

Only 2 FG and 1 SF TD's voted against, the rest of the against votes coming from a sizable minority of FF TD's and a lot of Independants.

Amendments to be tabled from tomorrow, but this pretty much means the bill will pass by a similar majority.

21 FF TD's voted against, 19 for, 3 absentees.

Pretty much similar numbers to the above poll.

No campaigners out this way yet from either side. Maby they are all afraid they will be shot as trespassing burglars.

The_Valeyard

Oldtree wrote: »

Pretty much similar numbers to the above poll.

No campaigners out this way yet from either side. Maby they are all afraid they will be shot as trespassing burglars.

You threatening to shoot them?


Just politely say no thank you and that would be it.

nozzferrahhtoo

marsbar1 wrote: »

In the old thread people were asking me what old values of Ireland I was speaking of that I think will go if abortion is allowed on Irish soil against the catholic church. Ireland is a friendly place where people help you and talk to you, like in England 30 years ago. England has been invaded now by many other religions and people, crime is up morals are down, there is no community spirit anymore.

Ah the power of non-sequitur and scare mongering and fantasy all in one paragraph there, well done:

1) Fantasy: Much of what you describe about the UK is just your hatred of the UK and does not match the reality I have lived and breathed over there myself when I have been. You are simply inventing a horror venue in your mind so that you can.....

2) scare mongering: ........ use it to do a "If you allow abortion you will end up with this horror story" scare mongering tactic because you know as well as just about everyone else on this thread you have no anti abortion arguments, and no arguments indicting it morally or philosophically. So you are forced to rely on..........

3) non-sequitur: ........... pretending abortion is linked to ANY of the things you invented in your fantasy version of the UK. Because even if 100% of what you just said about the UK were 100% true...... you still have not linked them causally, even a tiny bit, to abortion.

Care to try again? Maybe next time with a REAL version of the Uk, without the Scare Mongering, and WITH causal links between things that are correlated or, in this case, you are merely pretending are correlated?

Madscientist30

ForestFire wrote: »

Madscientist30 wrote: »

ForestFire can you clarify what you mean by "abortion just because"? "Just because" implies there is no clear purpose behind doing it and it is almost done on a whim? Is that what you believe the reason is for most Irish women having abortions? Or to put it another way, would you outline a few case studies or examples of the types of thought processes you imagine Irish women are having to end their pregnancies "just because"?

Firstly thank you for asking to clarify.

I have searched a few times and I cannot see where I said this, but maybe its just my eyes?

Can you show me where I said this and I will clarify for you.

I'm sorry Forestfire, my mistake, it was actually theeglitz that mentioned the danger of 'abortion just because'. Apologies again.

Madscientist30

marsbar1 wrote: »

In the old thread people were asking me what old values of Ireland I was speaking of that I think will go if abortion is allowed on Irish soil against the catholic church. Ireland is a friendly place where people help you and talk to you, like in England 30 years ago. England has been invaded now by many other religions and people, crime is up morals are down, there is no community spirit anymore. Its a horrible place being changed beyond recognition by political correctness, and the loony left.
Ireland is a lovely place, I think attached to the old catholic values are all the nice things that gels the goodness of Ireland together. We have already had enough attacks on Irish culture as it is. This is yet another thing that will send Ireland on the same path to ruin in society as England is on, and for that matter a lot of Europe including Sweden, France and Germany.
Yes some of you talk about the abuse of the church in the past like is is some justification to allow abortion. That ought to stop and be investigated and never happen again.

I can assure you that community spirit is alive and well in "secular" France. What exactly is Irish culture anyway as you see it?

Mr.H

retro:electro wrote: »

100 years of the female vote. Time to end the nonsense and allow women decide for themselves what is best for them. I don’t care what a stranger irrelevant to my life cares about what I should do with my body. It is a matter between a woman and her doctor. Everyone else needs to mind their own.
Don’t want an abortion? Don’t have one.
But your principles and values which bear no relevance to my life should not supersede my own.

SO do you think only women of childbearing age should be allowed to vote?

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

SO do you think only women of childbearing age should be allowed to vote?

Where on earth are you getting that from retro:electro's post?

Seriously, where? It's not even insinuated or is it implied?

Mr.H

robarmstrong wrote: »

Where on earth are you getting that from retro:electro's post?

Seriously, where? It's not even insinuated or is it implied?

Just asking a question based on the sentence "women should be allowed to choose for themselves what to do with their own bodies".

Lets be honest, thats a bit of an easy comment to make also.

Women already rightfully do have choice over their own bodies. They can choose not to have unprotected sex if they dont want to get pregnant. I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

swampgas

Mr.H wrote: »

Just asking a question based on the sentence "women should be allowed to choose for themselves what to do with their own bodies".

Lets be honest, thats a bit of an easy comment to make also.

Women already rightfully do have choice over their own bodies. They can choose not to have unprotected sex if they dont want to get pregnant. I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

Try reading back over this thread, maybe go back 10 or 15 pages, before writing a post like that. Seriously.

Mr.H

swampgas wrote: »

Try reading back over this thread, maybe go back 10 or 15 pages, before writing a post like that. Seriously.

Why? its a valid statement.

Listen I am not talking about grey areas that are often used to validate the argument. I am talking simply a woman in or out of a relationship of course wants to have a healthy sex life. If the proper protection is used (properly) then you will not get pregnant.

ohnonotgmail

Mr.H wrote: »

Just asking a question based on the sentence "women should be allowed to choose for themselves what to do with their own bodies".

Lets be honest, thats a bit of an easy comment to make also.

Women already rightfully do have choice over their own bodies. They can choose not to have unprotected sex if they dont want to get pregnant. I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

Never?

Zubeneschamali

Mr.H wrote: »

I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

You are 100% right, I don't, because I am a man.

Which is why I will vote to repeal the 8th so that women who can get pregnant have a choice.

Oldtree

swampgas wrote: »

Try reading back over this thread, maybe go back 10 or 15 pages, before writing a post like that. Seriously.

It's becoming like a repetitive mantra.