The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

Just asking a question based on the sentence "women should be allowed to choose for themselves what to do with their own bodies".

Lets be honest, thats a bit of an easy comment to make also.

Women already rightfully do have choice over their own bodies. They can choose not to have unprotected sex if they dont want to get pregnant. I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

How many times does this need to be mentioned?

It does not matter how careful or how much protection is used, no contraceptive is 100%, why is this so difficult to grasp? Why is it so difficult to understand? Can you or can you accept that no matter how careful both parties are and what protection is used, it is not a 100% given? The women who have chosen to be careful and used protection fall pregnant, what then?

SusieBlue

Mr.H wrote: »

Just asking a question based on the sentence "women should be allowed to choose for themselves what to do with their own bodies".

Lets be honest, thats a bit of an easy comment to make also.

Women already rightfully do have choice over their own bodies. They can choose not to have unprotected sex if they dont want to get pregnant. I mean if both parties are careful and use protection then you dont get pregnant.

This is getting boring now. I'm going to start copying and pasting my answers to these nuggets of genius.

Contraception isn't 100% reliable. You can have protected sex and still get pregnant.
Women should absolutely be allowed to choose for themselves whether they want to continue with a pregnancy.
Forcing parenthood on an unwilling or unable mother (note I didn't say father - he can walk away) is neither in the best interests of the child nor the mother.

What I do with the contents of my womb is absolutely not your business.

david75

Mr.H wrote: »

Why? its a valid statement.

Listen I am not talking about grey areas that are often used to validate the argument. I am talking simply a woman in or out of a relationship of course wants to have a healthy sex life. If the proper protection is used (properly) then you will not get pregnant.

This again??
Jesus

Oldtree

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You threatening to shoot them?

Just politely say no thank you and that would be it.

What an imagination you show in your post, completely twisting on its head, what I said.
You must be one of those spin doctors

swampgas

Mr.H wrote: »

Why? its a valid statement.

Listen I am not talking about grey areas that are often used to validate the argument. I am talking simply a woman in or out of a relationship of course wants to have a healthy sex life. If the proper protection is used (properly) then you will not get pregnant.

Why not?

You asked a question that's been asked lots of times already, and debated extensively. Why not skim back over some of the previous posts first rather than expecting to be spoon-fed.

January

Contraception is not 100% effective. Contraception is not 100% effective. Contraception is not 100% effective. Contraception is not 100% effective.

FFS say it with my guys.

Mr.H

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Never?

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

January

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

You're wrong! Even with perfect use no contraception is 100% effective.

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

Provide proof of your claim about these statistics.

Look here - https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control

Read, learn. Perfect use is still not 100% effective. There's my proof, where's yours to counter this?

ohnonotgmail

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

I mean FFS. Are there people really this ignorant of basic science?
Both have an effectiveness rate of less than 100%. Even using the 2 together does not give 100% effectiveness. Its not that hard to understand.

Mr.H

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

As was already posted, the pill is 99% effective with perfect use. Meaning in every year, 1 in 100 women using the pill will get pregnant. Over the course of a woman's reproductive life, that's almost a 1 in 3 chance. And that's only the pill, we haven't even started on other methods like condoms, etc.

Mr.H

January wrote: »

You're wrong! Even with perfect use no contraception is 100% effective.

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

January

Mr.H wrote: »

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

Yes, even using two types of contraception.

Aren't they lucky that they were never a statistic then? Or you know, maybe some of them might have had abortions but not told you because of your views?

ohnonotgmail

Mr.H wrote: »

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

so anybody who doesnt want kids and gets pregnant is irresponsible?

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

I'll take actual proven statistics over your anecdote of knowing the full details of your friends' bedroom activities thanks.

January

BTW I wanted kids, I've had kids, I'm finished having kids. I use contraception. I'm not being irresponsible by having sex with my husband. Sorry for you if that's your view but it's not mine.

PhoenixParker

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

They publish both perfect use and normal use stats.
Stats are failures per year. A tiny risk of failure multiplies over a woman's fertile years to become a very significant risk of failure.

As stated earlier in the thread, the 99% perfect use rate of the pill means roughly a 1 in 3 chance of failure over a woman's fertile years if she's sexually active.

Also lets knock on the head that those using the pill "imperfectly" are somehow irresponsible and content to play the odds.

If you have any sort of irregular lifestyle (e.g. night shifts, lots of travel, job with irregular hours) it can be difficult to find a time window where you can reliably take the pill every single day.

Even those with regular lives can end up caught out by something simple like a dentist appointment or a long car trip.

PhoenixParker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so anybody who doesnt want kids and gets pregnant is irresponsible?

Perhaps several of them have also had discreet abortions, you simply don't know.

david75

Mr.H wrote: »

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

Can you come back to the topic? We aren’t having a referendum on people’s sex lives.

We’re having one to repeal the 8th amendment

eviltwin

January wrote: »

BTW I wanted kids, I've had kids, I'm finished having kids. I use contraception. I'm not being irresponsible by having sex with my husband. Sorry for you if that's your view but it's not mine.

Ditto. I completed my family at 32. No one could seriously expect that we stayed celibate until I was post menopause. We take precautions but if they fail and the worst happens then I know we won't be having a baby.

eviltwin

Mr.H wrote: »

Even using two types of contraception perfectly?

Funny because I know loads of couples who dont want kids and dont have kids because they are responsible

With respect how would you know if anyone has had an abortion. They are hardly likely to tell you.

Mr.H

January wrote: »

Yes, even using two types of contraception.

Aren't they lucky that they were never a statistic then? Or you know, maybe some of them might have had abortions but not told you because of your views?

You dont know my views!


First of all I would be only too happy to have kids. We will have kids (hopefully) when we are ready.

Secondly If I was asked two years ago would I vote for abortion without limitation, I would have said yes without even thinking about it.

The reason I ask questions is to validify my view point. I want abortion to be legalised but I also want actual debate about it.

I know you all now probably think my posts where immature. But on the contrary, I am asking basic questions to get a more rounded view on the topic. Just because I ask a question doesnt mean I agree with those words 100%

I am worried that because of the nature of the debate, we as a society are not actualy having one. You either want abortion legaised or you hate women. That seems to be the consensus. In fact I am finding it is the pro lifers who are more willing to debate than the pro choice.

It is scary to think that the pro choice argument is so thinly veiled on simple sentences like "women can choose what to do with their own bodies". Which is the reason for me pointing to that statement. I am not looking to troll or to upset anyone or to pick on women. I am merely trying to get more from the side who I actually agree with (the pro choicers), than simple regurgitated sentences that dont actually mean anything.

I hope you actually understand what I mean and I am not just coming across as rambling

Mr.H

eviltwin wrote: »

With respect how would you know if anyone has had an abortion. They are hardly likely to tell you.

I know three people and have talked about it on here before how they where treated and discarded with and there was no after care for them and they felt alone.

With respect. You do not know me.

ohnonotgmail

Mr.H wrote: »

You dont know my views!


First of all I would be only too happy to have kids. We will have kids (hopefully) when we are ready.

Secondly If I was asked two years ago would I vote for abortion without limitation, I would have said yes without even thinking about it.

The reason I ask questions is to validify my view point. I want abortion to be legalised but I also want actual debate about it.

I know you all now probably think my posts where immature. But on the contrary, I am asking basic questions to get a more rounded view on the topic. Just because I ask a question doesnt mean I agree with those words 100%

I am worried that because of the nature of the debate, we as a society are not actualy having one. You either want abortion legaised or you hate women. That seems to be the consensus. In fact I am finding it is the pro lifers who are more willing to debate than the pro choice.

It is scary to think that the pro choice argument is so thinly veiled on simple sentences like "women can choose what to do with their own bodies". Which is the reason for me pointing to that statement. I am not looking to troll or to upset anyone or to pick on women. I am merely trying to get more from the side who I actually agree with (the pro choicers), than simple regurgitated sentences that dont actually mean anything.

I hope you actually understand what I mean and I am not just coming across as rambling

we've heard all that nonsense before from self-proclaimed pro-choice people. It doesnt wash.

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

You dont know my views!


First of all I would be only too happy to have kids. We will have kids (hopefully) when we are ready.

Secondly If I was asked two years ago would I vote for abortion without limitation, I would have said yes without even thinking about it.

The reason I ask questions is to validify my view point. I want abortion to be legalised but I also want actual debate about it.

I know you all now probably think my posts where immature. But on the contrary, I am asking basic questions to get a more rounded view on the topic. Just because I ask a question doesnt mean I agree with those words 100%

I am worried that because of the nature of the debate, we as a society are not actualy having one. You either want abortion legaised or you hate women. That seems to be the consensus. In fact I am finding it is the pro lifers who are more willing to debate than the pro choice.

It is scary to think that the pro choice argument is so thinly veiled on simple sentences like "women can choose what to do with their own bodies". Which is the reason for me pointing to that statement. I am not looking to troll or to upset anyone or to pick on women. I am merely trying to get more from the side who I actually agree with (the pro choicers), than simple regurgitated sentences that dont actually mean anything.

I hope you actually understand what I mean and I am not just coming across as rambling

You're finding the pro-lifers more willing to debate? I'm hoping you mean off of boards because the pro-lifers we've had in here have either been trolls, re-regs or people so far into their own view they would come out with the most horrendous retorts.

Thinly veiled? No. It is a simple sentence, it's simple because it's so easy to understand but so many refuse to understand it, which actually makes it difficult.

We're the ones who have been fed simple regurgitated sentences that don't actually mean anything, if you think otherwise, you know how to unfollow and leave a thread.

SusieBlue

As opposed to the very measured pro-life side who go around saying women should have to birth their rapists babies and that anyone who procures an abortion is cruel and cold and is intentionally murdering an innocent defenseless Irish citizen.
Right.

Mr.H

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we've heard all that nonsense before from self-proclaimed pro-choice people. It doesnt wash.

You dont have to believe me because we dont know each other and after this conversation will probably not talk again. I have no reason to lie to you. I am not trying to change anyones views. I was merely looking for more debate but its evident it aint happening

eviltwin

Mr.H wrote: »

I know three people and have talked about it on here before how they where treated and discarded with and there was no after care for them and they felt alone.

With respect. You do not know me.

And do you know the circumstances of those people and the precautions they were using? Not looking for an argument but it's over simplistic to say that people who are responsible don't get pregnant when that's not the case.

robarmstrong

Mr.H wrote: »

You dont have to believe me because we dont know each other and after this conversation will probably not talk again. I have no reason to lie to you. I am not trying to change anyones views. I was merely looking for more debate but its evident it aint happening

You weren't here looking for a debate. You came in under the guise of a pro-choicer, stated absolute sh!te, got called out on it and did not address those who called you out.

You came here for an argument.

ohnonotgmail

Mr.H wrote: »

You dont have to believe me because we dont know each other and after this conversation will probably not talk again. I have no reason to lie to you. I am not trying to change anyones views. I was merely looking for more debate but its evident it aint happening

You are not looking for debate. You posted your opinion as fact. and easily disproven nonsense at that. You have not posted anything TO debate.