The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

robarmstrong

erica74 wrote: »

More emotive nonsense that does every woman who has ever had an abortion a total disservice.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRO ABORTION AND PRO CHOICE? Because it seems that you don't, despite it being explained over and over and over again.

What does your last sentence even mean? You seem to be asking a question but I cannot understand what you're asking.

Don't feed it, report it, ignore it and then it'll go away

We'll forever be inundated with posters like this to be fair. It's just not worth it anymore as we'll all get riled up and the thread will be shut again and we'll lose a venue for some valuable discussion.

Hannibal_Smith

Ismisejack wrote: »

The pro abortion side of the debate have no time for the unborn. They don’t care a toss about the unborn, and willingly murder it with little thought, this fact alone scares me. Don’t be fool the unborn is little more than an inconvenience to them on their pursuit to abortion on demand. Besides trying to absurdly claim the unborn doesn’t exsist and isn’t a life, I ask all pro abortion people here, what is yeer solution regards the baby’s or are yee really willing to kill them like that??

I'm not sure we've heard anything from the pro-abortion side of the debate.

A positive pregnancy test is more than an inconvenience. It is life changing. It is life changing even when the pregnancy is wanted! I am drawing the conclusion that when the word inconvenience is thrown around, it's because it's the easy jibe to throw.

Do you think people just want to get 'murdering babies and that's their only agenda? Do you have any depth of thought into the why a woman would not wish to carry on with a pregnancy ? Have you ever been pregnant? Do you understand that it's not an inconvenience, it is life changing, body changing.

Annasopra

Ismisejack wrote: »

Well uve mentioned abortion their in instances of rape incest etc. surely if that is your belief that rape victims shouldn’t have carry a pregnancy against their wishes why is it yee are campaigning for unlimited abortion up to twelve weeks. The rape situation just suits yee in pursuing your actual agenda which is abortion on demand

Any chance of answering my question?

suirvale

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

robarmstrong

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Any chance of answering my question?

Too busy thinking of other horrible remarks to throw in here before inevitably being banned.

If he does answer your question though prepare to read the same stuff he's spouted out over and over again.

January

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

I've spoken about my husbands point of view a few pages back.

If he had disagreed with me I know in my heart I would have went ahead with the abortion anyway. Ultimately I am the one who has to carry the pregnancy and give birth. It probably would have done irreparable damage to our marriage though. I'm glad we were and are on the same page.

robarmstrong

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

Yano what, for your first post in here fair play, that's a solid point of discussion.

Me personally? If my partner wanted to abort 110% in her mind that she wasn't ready for the pregnancy or couldn't physically handle it at that time in her life... I'd support her, I wouldn't like it but I'd support her, she knows herself better than I do and if that's what she believes then I'd take it as gospel.

amdublin

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

Are you male?

Say your girlfriend is pregnant. You are both delighted and very excited. Then let's say she becomes unwell and really needs treatment but the Dr says they can't because her life isn't in danger (yet).
What would you be feeling?

david75

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

Interesting spin on that would be to ask pro lifers suggesting that adoption is a viable option, would they be ok with a gay couple adopting the baby.

Safe bet they wouldn’t be up for that even if it did mean the baby got to live.

Herein lies the utter hypocrisy.

MilesMorales1

I don't really understand this 'what about the mens viewpoint'
Most things in society are already built around mens sensibilities and viewpoints, the laws are largely written by men. The man doesn't carry the baby, and often doesn't support it once its born, in certain kinds of relationships. If I was in that situation (hypothetically) I would discuss it with my girlfriend, make sure she knew my point of view, offer any support she needed, and go along with her decision whatever it is. Not my body.

Edward M

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

That's a good question, even to add to it, what if the man doesent want the baby or the responsibility of it, if he says his choice is to walk away free and clear, he can't abort, is he stuck regardless?

borderlinemeath

Ismisejack wrote: »

The pro abortion side of the debate have no time for the unborn.

The Pro Birth side of the debate have no time for babies once they've been born.

They don’t care a toss about the unborn, and willingly murder it with little thought, this fact alone scares me.

They don't care a toss about the babies once they're born, and willingly abandon all faux care and love with little thought, this fact alone disgusts me.

Don’t be fool the unborn is little more than an inconvenience to them on their pursuit to abortion on demand.

Don't be fooled, the baby, once born, means nothing to pro birthers. They have achieved their goal of forcing a woman to birth a baby that she did not want/cannot care for/may not live.

Besides trying to absurdly claim the unborn doesn’t exsist and isn’t a life, I ask all pro abortion people here, what is yeer solution regards the baby’s or are yee really willing to kill them like that??

Besides trying to absurdly claim that the baby will live a fulfilling life, even if it only lives a few hours and dies gasping for breath in agony. Or is so profoundly disabled that it will need constant care/medication/mechanical support for life. Or that it is born to parents that cannot cope, or lives it's life in poverty? What is your solution for all these children or are you really that uncaring that you will just abandon all the lovely babies you insist on being born?

nice_guy80

looking forward to seeing the love both campaign giving away loads of free contraceptives

considering that is what they are NOW encouraging women and men to use to prevent abortions...

crustybla

It's so sad but that's reality. I'm sure in an ideal world not one of us is pro-abortion. But there is a difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. It's far from an ideal world, and women (and the men that may support them) for whatever reason should ultimately have the right to chose what's best for them.

Just curious, why have the pro-life side not lobbied, called to doors and erected posters of dead babies in the case of the church and it's immensely tarnished history where babies/children/women are concerned? Any chance of the church paying some sort of restitution like they were supposed to but still haven't?

Maybe they'd be better off spending their dollars locating sold babies in America?

Just a thought. From a woman. Doesn't matter. Carry on.

david75

Remember the awful X Case in ireland?

The person who committed the rape served 3 years in jail. The rape victim a 14year old child, faced a jail sentence to for being raped....
That man who raped her attacked and raped another 15year old child a couple of years later and got another 3 years....
yet here we are still torturing women by not allowing them to access healthcare in ireland.

Trust women, trust our doctors, trust each other to look after our sisters, daughters and every woman in ireland to make their own bodily choices. Repeal 8th.

Ave Sodalis

crustybla wrote: »

It's so sad but that's reality. I'm sure in an ideal world not one of us is pro-abortion. But there is a difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. It's far from an ideal world, and women (and the men that may support them) for whatever reason should ultimately have the right to chose what's best for them.

Just curious, why have the pro-life side not lobbied, called to doors and erected posters of dead babies in the case of the church and it's immensely tarnished history where babies/children/women are concerned? Any chance of the church paying some sort of restitution like they were supposed to but still haven't?

Maybe they'd be better off spending their dollars locating sold babies in America?

Just a thought. From a woman. Doesn't matter. Carry on.

Have a peep into the thread about the pope's visit to find your answer... or don't, it's actually kinda depressing.

suirvale

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

Good question.
Any relationship moving into a even semi serious state would involve the "do you want kids" discussion, I even brought the subject up on dates when I was single as its a topic that's important to know early in my opinion in case one does and the other doesn't as there's no point letting things get serious if complete opposites on this.

Apart from this if a guy wants the baby, they can't force the girl to continue the pregnancy if she doesn't want to, same as they can't force the girl to get an abortion if they don't want a kid but the girl does*.

In the first case all the guy can do is try and understand this and not to be bitter about it. I'm sure it would mean the end of the relationship, and I'm not dismissing the pain that they would feel. It would be the same for the girl, if she wanted to keep the baby.

In the case where your in a serious loving relationship and your told that continuing the pregnancy would mean that your partner would die or even be in danger of such if you love your partner you'd want them to live and support them if they decided to terminate. I'd imagine it would be harder to support them if they decided to continue the pregnancy knowing there was a serious chance of them not surviving, but if you really love them you would support that decision too and hope for the best.


* i know their are plenty of he forced me to have the baby/have an abortion stories on the net, I'm ignoring them as the few I've read in both cases are on sites that just plain full of ****e.

_Dara_

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I don't really understand this 'what about the mens viewpoint'
Most things in society are already built around mens sensibilities and viewpoints, the laws are largely written by men. The man doesn't carry the baby, and often doesn't support it once its born, in certain kinds of relationships. If I was in that situation (hypothetically) I would discuss it with my girlfriend, make sure she knew my point of view, offer any support she needed, and go along with her decision whatever it is. Not my body.

Yeah, I think it’s important for the opinion of the man in the equation to be heard. But in a scenario where there’s a difference of opinion and one can’t convince the other and it’s the woman that wants to abort, there can’t be equality in this scenario. For want of a better phrase, someone will get their way and, IMO, it should be the person who has to physically endure the pregnancy.

MilesMorales1

_Dara_ wrote: »

Yeah, I think it’s important for the opinion of the man in the equation to be heard. But in a scenario where there’s a difference of opinion and one can’t convince the other and it’s the woman that wants to abort, there can’t be equality in this scenario. For want of a better phrase, someone will get their way and, IMO, it should be the person who has to physically endure the pregnancy.

Quite.


Incidentally I unquestionably believe in the christian god, but I can't believe in the organised Catholic Church and when they and the Iona institute won't apologise or pay restitution for things like the Tuam baby homes it just makes me laugh when they claim abortion is this and that blah blah.

Sofiztikated

Ismisejack wrote: »

The pro abortion side of the debate have no time for the unborn. They don’t care a toss about the unborn, and willingly murder it with little thought, this fact alone scares me. Don’t be fool the unborn is little more than an inconvenience to them on their pursuit to abortion on demand. Besides trying to absurdly claim the unborn doesn’t exsist and isn’t a life, I ask all pro abortion people here, what is yeer solution regards the baby’s or are yee really willing to kill them like that??

The only pregnancy my wife and I have had miscarried the day she was going for her 12 week scan. The first and last time we've had a viable pregnancy, and it was much wanted. I've never grieved for anyone more than I did for that lost child. We "buried" the future, and hopes, and dreams, and names, and outfits, and birthdays, and wedding days, the lot. It has put a strain on our marriage, but we're working through it.

If she had wanted to terminate the pregnancy, or had to terminate it for medical necessity (which is possible due to complications with a medical condition I have) I would be upset, for sure, but her well being is primary, in my view, and her desire to want to have my kids is a close second. If she doesn't think she is capable of bringing a child into the world, for any reason, any one at all, I support her in that choice. It would be a difficult decision for her to make, but I trust her to make the right one.

erica74

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.
say you girlfriend get pregnant and guys have fellings about whether abort or not its quite complex.

Realistically it is the woman who carries the baby. It's impossible for a man to have the final "say" in abortion because the woman is pregnant, she will have to endure the remainder of the pregnancy. Obviously I think every man should be given the opportunity to discuss the matter with their girlfriend or wife or even just a one time sexual partner. And every man should be realistic that their "say" can't be final.

Edward M wrote: »

That's a good question, even to add to it, what if the man doesent want the baby or the responsibility of it, if he says his choice is to walk away free and clear, he can't abort, is he stuck regardless?

Well unfortunately because of biology if a woman wants to continue with a pregnancy and the man doesn't want to, she gets the final "say". It's a sort of imbalance, if a man wants to continue with a pregnancy but a woman doesn't he's disappointed, if a woman wants to continue with a pregnancy but a man doesn't both she and the potential child are disappointed but unfortunately that's down to biology and there's not really a whole lot we can do about that.

One would hope that women who find themselves pregnant with a partner who doesn't want to be a father and they want to have an abortion, will benefit from abortion being made available in Ireland. They will be able to seek an abortion earlier and at less financial strain.

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Have a peep into the thread about the pope's visit to find your answer... or don't, it's actually kinda depressing.

As soon as I heard about that visit, I made a promise to myself not to visit any thread about the visit. Think of it like lent for a non-religious person except I'm swearing off papal discussion until at least September and I won't be putting money in the trocaire box:pac:

Madscientist30

Ismisejack wrote: »

The pro abortion side of the debate have no time for the unborn. They don’t care a toss about the unborn, and willingly murder it with little thought, this fact alone scares me. Don’t be fool the unborn is little more than an inconvenience to them on their pursuit to abortion on demand. Besides trying to absurdly claim the unborn doesn’t exsist and isn’t a life, I ask all pro abortion people here, what is yeer solution regards the baby’s or are yee really willing to kill them like that??

Many people who are here arguing for repeal have never had an abortion and more than likely never would but support the OPTION being available for women/families if they need it and maybe in case their family even needs it in the future. My solution regarding crisis pregnancies where the woman does not feel that it is a possibility for her to continue the pregnancy is to have the CHOICE of abortion open to her. What is your solution for crisis pregnancies, and I'm not just talking about the solution of forcing the continuation of the pregnancy? Thats only a solution for a few months to ensure birth. But for after that? What is your solution for the unborn after they become born into what are often very difficult situations? Can you talk about the practicalities of that situation and what should be done for all these children forced into the world at your behest? Where should they go? Who should raise them? Since "there is always a better solution than abortion" what are some practical solutions for this? Mass orphanages maybe? A huge expansion of foster care?

Do you believe abortion should be banned worldwide since in your mind it is murder?

neonsofa

Sofiztikated wrote: »

The only pregnancy my wife and I have had miscarried the day she was going for her 12 week scan.

I am so so sorry for your loss.

Annasopra

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its another way of using language to shame women.

Annasopra

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

There isn't even a wording or a date yet.

There is a wording.

Annasopra

david75 wrote: »

Weirder question for you. Right this very moment outside DIT Bolton street there’s an anti choice demonstration from *the Canadian* Pro life group ICBR.

Where is all the money coming from to ship these groups in? We know they’re doing this cos they can’t find people here and particularly young people, so it’s vastly expensive yet they’re doing it.

Also youth defence and their other branches are heavily fundraising and none registered with SIPO

Foreign organisations spending money here dont have to register with SIPO

Annasopra

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

As a complete aside I could never understood why she used Ui Bhriain instead of Ni Bhriain.

Because she is married I thought. She was Nic Mhathuna.

Annasopra

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

Anyone I know who got pregnant who was on the pill its because they forgot the odd time or decided not to use a condom that one time.

I mean ffs

Ffs at the silly stupid and sad repetitive mantra.
FFS that these silly stupid and sad statements have been debunked again and again and again and again and again and again
FFS that the silly stupid and sad mantra doesnt give a **** about women and judges them
FFS that the silly stupid and sad mantra completely disregards women who forcibly became pregnant through rape and/or incest

uptherebels

Mr.H wrote: »

Never!

You know the % stats for it failing are to account for it not being used correctly yes?

If a man wears a condom and a woman uses the pill, as long as both are used correctly (pill taken on time every time), then you wont get pregnant!!

wrong, even when used correctly there is still a chance of getting pregnant

https://www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control-options/effectiveness

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/pdf/contraceptive_methods_508.pdf

http://https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/how-effective-contraception/

:rolleyes:

suirvale

thats why i was afraid to post as i knew i would be told what you said..but its a lot more than that from my experience.