The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

erica74

suirvale wrote: »

thats why i was afraid to post as i knew i would be told what you said..but its a lot more than that from my experience.

What post are you responding to?

robarmstrong

suirvale wrote: »

thats why i was afraid to post as i knew i would be told what you said..but its a lot more than that from my experience.

There's no need to be afraid to post, we're very reasonable and we're open to an honest and reasonable debate or discussion. You can also feel free to share why it's a lot more than that from your experience so we can all compare and discuss our own opinions and beliefs.

We just don't like people popping in, saying horrible sh!t, passing opinion off as fact and in general being ridiculously unpleasant. You popped in, asked a genuine question and obviously you've experienced abortion in some way shape or form, so of course what you have to say will be heard and valued by us.

amdublin

suirvale wrote: »

thats why i was afraid to post as i knew i would be told what you said..but its a lot more than that from my experience.

I'm not sure what you are saying?

You seem to have experience of abortion. I Hope you're doing ok.


It's absolutely not straightforward. No one wants an abortion - someone who is pregnant or someone who's partner is pregnant.

But sometimes circumstance dictate that someone doesn't want to be pregnant...and that abortion is the choice for them to terminate the pregnancy. Of course for some that brings difficulty. For some after the difficulty comes peace and relief and health.

The most important thing is that the choice is there and everyone makes their own individual choice of what is best for them, for their body, for their health, for their life. And if that choice is abortion they don't have to travel to access pills and travel home while bleeding etc etc

david75

Pro-life bots and trolls are gearing up to sway Ireland's abortion vote


As Ireland's abortion referendum approaches, the fake news battle is raging online

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/ireland-abortion-referendum-repeal-the-8th-fake-news

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david75

....... wrote: »

Theres lots on them on boards.ie.

At one point you could be almost guaranteed a new prolife poster arriving in one of the abortion theads around 4.30-5pm on a weekday. I presumed it was the Iona bot shift change.

Really?
I hadn’t noticed

Ave Sodalis

david75 wrote: »

Pro-life bots and trolls are gearing up to sway Ireland's abortion vote


As Ireland's abortion referendum approaches, the fake news battle is raging online

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/ireland-abortion-referendum-repeal-the-8th-fake-news

This, along with the news of the "pro-choice" protestor (i.e. the well known pro-life advocate) and the so called nurse needs to be shared far and wide.

seamus

We can take some solace though that in the wake of the Cambridge Analytica scandal, the false propaganda industry is in a bit of disarray and the pro-life groups who recently engaged CA to run their campaigns have probably rethought whether that association is a good one.

So they may be left scrabbling to invent badly-staged videos like the one referred to above, and repeating their fake articles into their echo chambers until a new CA steps into the breach.

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

We can take some solace though that in the wake of the Cambridge Analytica scandal, the false propaganda industry is in a bit of disarray and the pro-life groups who recently engaged CA to run their campaigns have probably rethought whether that association is a good one.

So they may be left scrabbling to invent badly-staged videos like the one referred to above, and repeating their fake articles into their echo chambers until a new CA steps into the breach.

i think you give them too much credit.

david75

It’s already done damage though. It is as one of those involved said ‘psychological warfare’. Like even my elderly neighbours are aware of what fake news is, so you end up with people not being able to believe anything at all that they’re reading, or worse, believing everything that they read without checking, which is where the vast majority of people we all know on Facebook fall into.

Thereve been a few posters even in this thread that seemed to be playing off exactly the same script and derailing the discussion into irrelevant sideshows (why can’t she use contraception being the most recent on repeat).

It’s definitely happening already and seems very very coordinated across the board.

Zubeneschamali

Ismisejack wrote: »

Don’t be fool the unborn is little more than an inconvenience to them on their pursuit to abortion on demand.

Logically if our goal was abortion on demand, the unborn would not be an inconvenience, it would be absolutely necessary. We couldn't have abortion on demand without unborns.

Zubeneschamali

suirvale wrote: »

i never hear or see anyone in ireland talking about mens point of view.

I am a man, and have been offering my point of view over many, many posts in this thread.

Perhaps you mean no-one is talking about the views of Mens Rights Activist jackasses, in which case, feel free to chime in if you can contribute.

Zubeneschamali

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is a wording.

There is a proposed wording.

It is not the actual wording of a referendum until the Bill passes.

HandsomeBob

Looking forward to the Seanad vote.......should be entertaining at the very least.

suirvale

you should visit the filopines and see the millions in poverty ,. they need some kind of population control.

robarmstrong

suirvale wrote: »

you should visit the filopines and see the millions in poverty ,. they need some kind of population control.

Abortion isn't population control, completely different topic there.

Can I ask how this is related to the discussion of repealing/saving the 8th amendment?

amdublin

suirvale wrote: »

you should visit the filopines and see the millions in poverty ,. they need some kind of population control.

Are you just randomly popping in to say random stuff and disappear?

You first mentioned the male perspective. Literally mentioned it. Nil else.
Would you like to embellish?

And now you are talking about the Phillipines and people living in poverty. I've no clue what that has to do with Ireland and the 8th amendment.

What are your thoughts on the 8th amendment and how it affects women in Ireland today?

_Dara_

Misael Echoing Horse wrote: »

Oh goody goody, Outlaw Pete regurgitating a OneEyedJack argument (and not a top tier one), we all must have died and gone to boards heaven :)


You generally oppose abortion Pete, right? But not in cases where the mother's life is at serious risk or, for example, where treatments such as chemotherapy would be prevented? So, do you really oppose abortion or do you just essentially not oppose it at a slightly different point on the spectrum to me? How can you come on here and pretend to vindicate the right to life of the unborn when in some cases you'd allow it? Just because those cases are vastly different to others, doesn't matter does it, you're a big old hypocrite aren't you? :)

Or gosh, maybe you do oppose abortion but this is rather a nuanced and complex question, and people taking that nuance and complexity into account when forming their opinions are doing the adult, intelligent thing and not being hypocritical?


And you don't need to bother answering, I actually know what you think and I'll just full in the gaps myself, believe me. ;)

I apologise in advance for any thanks that this post may get, seeing as for some reason those really bug you.

Brilliant post! Have another thanks to add to the embarrassment of thanks you have already received.

Outlaw Pete

Misael Echoing Horse wrote: »

How can you come on here and pretend to vindicate the right to life of the unborn when in some cases you'd allow it? Just because those cases are vastly different to others, doesn't matter does it, you're a big old hypocrite aren't you? :)

Very poor logic.

First of all, I ain't pretending anything. There was a time when I might have endorsed abortion at 12 weeks but no longer. I guess the situation in Chile and other countries were women were harming themselves because of the unavailability of abortion services made me feel I should compromise but a few things have changed my view in that regard. The stats on the abortion on the basis of Down Syndrome very much one of them and now I realise that humans can never be trusted to decide if their developing young should continue to live or die as there will always be some who resort to eugenic behavior. If there was a vote tomorrow on whether or not it should be legal in Ireland to abort a preborn baby with down syndrome, the 'No' campaign would win by a landslide, and yet we are all set to to create a situation where that very thing will be possible.

You called me a hypocrite on the basis that I excuse abortions in some situations and not others. Well, then I'm not sure you understand what a hypocrite is. There are many actions that people are against but feel are justified in certain circumstances, that doesn't make them a hypocrite. Seems to me a large part of prochoice logic is to say "Hey look, you're a being a little tiny bit immoral there yourself with that view you just expressed and so how can you judge us for being totally immoral with ours". Yes I think it's okay for women to abort pregnancies on the grounds that their health will suffer greatly and also as a form of fetal euthanasia (as I see it). That doesn't make me hypocrite, far from it.

And you don't need to bother answering, I actually know what you think and I'll just full in the gaps myself, believe me. ;)

Typical prochoice response. You lot are all about hearing yourself speak and that response just proves it.

I apologise in advance for any thanks that this post may get, seeing as for some reason those really bug you.

Well, the abuse of the thanks function bothers me, yes, and the fact that you had the confidence to actually state that your post would go on to be well thanked illustrates that beautifully.

Outlaw Pete

borderlinemeath wrote: »

We certainly couldn't rely on the likes of LoveBoth or any other ProBirth organisation, once that baby is out of the womb they don't give a rats ar$e.

I work with disabled children. I know many people who don't agree with abortion on demand who also work with, and for, disabled children. In fact, I would say prolife views are far more common with those who work with the disabled in the residential services than it is for them to be prochoice (if my experiences are anything to by and I think they are). I have no idea where this nonsense started about people who have prolife views not caring about children who are born. It's utter rubbish but no doubt rubbish that be continued to be regurgitated on the regular.

robarmstrong

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Typical prochoice response. You lot are all about hearing yourself speak and that response just proves it.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Pete, we're not all about hearing ourselves speak. It's been stated numerous times throughout the thread that we are open to a reasonable and intelligent discussion, we cannot be held accountable if the pro-life side has failed in their attempt to provide such. I know I've reached out quite a lot to hear pro-lifers opinions but I'm hit with the "abortion on demand", "baby killers", "murderers!!!" line far too often.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Very poor logic.

Ya think? That is quite a whoosh.

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david75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Very poor logic.

First of all, I ain't pretending anything. There was a time when I might have endorsed abortion at 12 weeks but no longer. I guess the situation in Chile and other countries were women were harming themselves because of the unavailability of abortion services made me feel I should compromise but a few things have changed my view in that regard. The stats on the abortion on the basis of Down Syndrome very much one of them and now I realise that humans can never be trusted to decide if their developing young should continue to live or die as there will always be some who resort to eugenic behavior. If there was a vote tomorrow on whether or not it should be legal in Ireland to abort a preborn baby with down syndrome, the 'No' campaign would win by a landslide, and yet we are all set to to create a situation where that very thing will be possible.

You called me a hypocrite on the basis that I excuse abortions in some situations and not others. Well, then I'm not sure you understand what a hypocrite is. There are many actions that people are against but feel are justified in certain circumstances, that doesn't make them a hypocrite. Seems to me a large part of prochoice logic is to say "Hey look, you're a being a little tiny bit immoral there yourself with that view you just expressed and so how can you judge us for being totally immoral with ours". Yes I think it's okay for women to abort pregnancies on the grounds that their health will suffer greatly and also as a form of fetal euthanasia (as I see it). That doesn't make me hypocrite, far from it.



Typical prochoice response. You lot are all about hearing yourself speak and that response just proves it.



Well, the abuse of the thanks function bothers me, yes, and the fact that you had the confidence to actually state that your post would go on to be well thanked illustrates that beautifully.

Why are you worried about the thanks button??
Such a weird angle to take. It just so happens there are probably more people voting for repeal here than retain And anytime we get a new poster in with a new account they aren’t doing themselves or pro life any favours by the sheer nonsense and lies they’re coming out with.

Why would anyone like those comments?? Why does it even matter how many likes a comment gets??

Zubeneschamali

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I realise that humans can never be trusted to decide if their developing young should continue to live or die as there will always be some who resort to eugenic behavior.

Interesting, it is usually just the female humans that prolifers don't trust.

Outlaw Pete

B0jangles wrote: »

What would we do without Pete here to tell us what a Real Woman is?

What do mean what would you do? You're already doing it.

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

Also, any man that would support a woman stilling his child's heartbeat under the same circumstances, ain't no man to me either.

erica74 wrote: »

The prolife crowd "care" so much and "love both" but show no compassion whatsoever for women who fall pregnant and don't want to be pregnant.

Some of them don't, that's true. They're rare though, as most of those with prolife views care view much about pregnant women. Many of them indeed, are women.

_Dara_

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Very poor logic.

First of all, I ain't pretending anything. There was a time when I might have endorsed abortion at 12 weeks but no longer. I guess the situation in Chile and other countries were women were harming themselves because of the unavailability of abortion services made me feel I should compromise but a few things have changed my view in that regard. The stats on the abortion on the basis of Down Syndrome very much one of them and now I realise that humans can never be trusted to decide if their developing young should continue to live or die as there will always be some who resort to eugenic behavior. If there was a vote tomorrow on whether or not it should be legal in Ireland to abort a preborn baby with down syndrome, the 'No' campaign would win by a landslide, and yet we are all set to to create a situation where that very thing will be possible.

You called me a hypocrite on the basis that I excuse abortions in some situations and not others. Well, then I'm not sure you understand what a hypocrite is. There are many actions that people are against but feel are justified in certain circumstances, that doesn't make them a hypocrite. Seems to me a large part of prochoice logic is to say "Hey look, you're a being a little tiny bit immoral there yourself with that view you just expressed and so how can you judge us for being totally immoral with ours". Yes I think it's okay for women to abort pregnancies on the grounds that their health will suffer greatly and also as a form of fetal euthanasia (as I see it). That doesn't make me hypocrite, far from it.



Typical prochoice response. You lot are all about hearing yourself speak and that response just proves it.



Well, the abuse of the thanks function bothers me, yes, and the fact that you had the confidence to actually state that your post would go on to be well thanked illustrates that beautifully.

The thanks function works to allow people to show their appreciation for a post or parts thereof. In what way can it be abused?

It’s funny how sore you are about many people agreeing with posts that oppose yours. It couldn’t possibly be because those people... appreciate or agree with all or parts of the post, could it?

If you don’t get multiples of thanks for your own posts, why do you think that is? Nobody is restricted from thanking posts. There are no barriers.

SusieBlue

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

What do mean what would you do? You're already doing it.



A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

Also, any man that would support a woman stilling his child's heartbeat under the same circumstances, ain't no man to be either.



Some of don't, that's true. They're rare though, as most of those with prolife views care view much about pregnant women. Many of them indeed, are women.

Any man who takes a choice away from a woman when its none of his business, inflicting pain, distress, and fear on her, trying to control her and restrict her bodily autonomy, isn't a real man in my opinion.

gctest50

.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/almost-100-facebook-posts-on-referendum-were-paid-for-1.3436765


Almost 100 Facebook posts related to the abortion referendum and targeted at Irish users have been identified as having been paid for.

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