The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

_Dara_

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

Also, any man that would support a woman stilling his child's heartbeat under the same circumstances, ain't no man to me either.

I believe at one point, you claimed to be pro-choice in the first trimester. It was always clear that that wasn’t the case though. Your arguments here betrayed your pro-life views. At least in the above quote, you have finally nailed your (ugly) colours to the mast.

david75

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Interesting, it is usually just the female humans that prolifers don't trust.

They don’t trust women to make their own choices about pregnancy but do trust them to have and raise a baby.

The unbreakable circle of illogical stupidity of the pro life position.

Martina1991

Outlaw Pete wrote:

A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

You can't dictate or control the reasons why a woman wants an abortion.

Not now. Not after the referendum.

I don't know why you think you have the right to judge women who are worthy to have an abortion based on your morals.

B0jangles

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

Also, any man that would support a woman stilling his child's heartbeat under the same circumstances, ain't no man to me either.

So much judgement and so little compassion or understanding for other people's lives - not potential lives, or possible lives Pete - real, existing lives of which neither you nor I have any knowledge or experience.

I think that other people are the best and most familiar judges of how to live their own lives; you think you know better than they do - it's quite astonishingly arrogant.

_Dara_

B0jangles wrote: »

I think that other people are the best and most familiar judges of how to live their own lives; you think you know better than they do - it's quite astonishingly arrogant.

It really is, isn't it?

erica74

"not a real woman" :pac: :pac: :pac:
Well then I am happy to be "not a real woman"

Outlaw Pete

dudara wrote: »

Is this video supposed to appeal to my uterus?

Don't be so narcissistic, it was supposed to appeal to men also....... they're voting too, much to the displeasure of some it would seem.

I don’t get the point of it.

Well, those who are pro choice for healthy women to be legally able to kill their own healthy preborn babies (bit of a mouthful that, I can see why saying just prochoice is preferential to you all) speak about a developing prental baby at 12 weeks gestation as if it is nothing, literally nothing. Merely part of a woman's body that you all feel she should have the right to rip out of her like it was a parasite (indeed, there are some prochoicers who actually have referred to it as such on this very site) and all under the guise that it's a "medical procedure" but what the video shows is that at 12 weeks a preborn baby is very much not merely a woman's body, they are indeed moving their own body, and not just autonomically. That human being's life has clearly begun.

And also, don’t be daft, women don’t want to “kill babies in the name of women’s rights” (to paraphrase).

Course not........

The fact also remains that there is a not insignificant cohort of women who do not WANT to be pregnant, which may include financial, medical, work or personal reasons. And I believe that these women have a right to choose. I don’t believe in their rights being suppressed because they happen to be pregnant.

Look, I get why a woman might not want to have kids ffs but merely saying that you believe a woman should have a 'right' to that choice, is not a good argument for why they should. I mean, beyond the whole 'It's her body' bull**** (which ignores the fact that another human being's heartbeat is being stilled, and life snuffed out) what is your reasoning for why she should legally have the right to end the life her healthy baby, even when she herself is healthy? On what grounds?

david75

A foetus has a heartbeat at 12 weeks? Really?

Zubeneschamali

Well, Pete, after Abortion on Demand is available here, you may still be able to find Real Women(TM) in Malta.

Nettle Soup

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A healthy woman (who is pregnant from consensual sex) that would choose to have her healthy preborn baby's heartbeat stilled, is not a real woman to me, no.

Also, any man that would support a woman stilling his child's heartbeat under the same circumstances, ain't no man to me either.

So what are they then?

(and who are you!?)

robarmstrong

Infractions or bans aren't worth it lads and lasses it only adds fuel to the fire and will let them know that we've been gotten to.

Instead let's just continue to point out the abundance of flaws in their arguments and counter them all with facts to beat the band, eventually they'll either end up getting themselves banned or just slinking back into the caves when the 8th is repealed.

_Dara_

robarmstrong wrote: »

Infractions or bans aren't worth it lads and lasses it only adds fuel to the fire and will let them know that we've been gotten to.

I'm okay with that, to be honest. I don't feel the need to feign nonchalance the whole time. Sometimes, someone says something of staggering cuntishness and it needs to be responded to.

gctest50

robarmstrong wrote: »

................... just slinking back into the caves when the 8th is repealed.

If the 8th is repealed, the prolfe & trolls n bots will move on to voluntary euthanasia

Have to keep those dollars flowing in

Sofiztikated

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Look, I get why a woman might not want to have kids ffs but merely saying that you believe a woman should have a 'right' to that choice, is not a good argument for why they should. I mean, beyond the whole 'It's her body' bull**** (which ignores the fact that another human being's heartbeat is being stilled, and life snuffed out) what is your reasoning for why she should legally have the right to end the life her healthy baby, even when she herself is healthy? On what grounds?

Deaths from pregnancy come in at around 8 per 100,000 live births, in Ireland. Included in that is perfectly healthy women, that have complications during pregnancy.

Deaths from bungee jumping come in at approximately 1 in 500,000, but we still let people back out of doing one if they get scared.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod: Outlaw Pete, do not post in this thread again. Reason: flaming/baiting.

Everyone else, stop replying to him.

freshpopcorn

Quick question do you think we'll see many TD's who supported holding the referendum yesterday canvasing for a No vote?
There's one I'm thinking of who supported it but they've always appeared to be pro-life in the past.

January

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Quick question do you think we'll see many TD's who supported holding the referendum yesterday canvasing for a No vote?
There's one I'm thinking of who supported it but they've always appeared to be pro-life in the past.

Yes, there are definitely a few who will be campaigning for a No vote despite voting in favour of a referendum.

ForestFire

david75 wrote: »

A foetus has a heartbeat at 12 weeks? Really?

While in no way agreeing with anything else that was said since I last posted:o

"The fetus heart starts to beat at around 6 weeks."

When I have more time I do hope to come back to the discussion, but I would like to summarise as best as possible my views before doing so.

I have said previously that I am very likely to vote repeal, but I do how some issues around the whole process and etc.

But I am fully in favor of completely understanding what it means to terminate a 12 week fetus and the development it has reached at this stage (i.e. Physically without sentience).

And also of course about the other side of this debate the woman/wife/daughter/friends in my life and the wider Irish population and their needs.

January

Yes a fetus has a heartbeat at 12 weeks.

dudara

January wrote: »

Yes, there are definitely a few who will be campaigning for a No vote despite voting in favour of a referendum.

And that’s absolutely fine.

By voting for the referendum, they are acknowledging that the Irish population wants a chance to vote on this topic. That’s very distinct from voting on the topic itself.

david75

A parody news site today put it perfectly. TDs unsure whether to support repealing the 8th or not until they figure out will it affect them getting re-elected.

david75

January wrote: »

Yes a fetus has a heartbeat at 12 weeks.

Nothing like approaching a brain or nervous system though right?

robarmstrong

ForestFire wrote: »

While in no way agreeing with anything else that was said since I last posted:o

"The fetus heart starts to beat at around 6 weeks."

When I have more time I do hope to come back to the discussion, but I would like to summarise as best as possible my views before doing so.

I have said previously that I am very likely to vote repeal, but I do how some issues around the whole process and etc.

But I am fully in favor of completely understanding what it means to terminate a 12 week fetus and the development it has reached at this stage (i.e. Physically without sentience).

And also of course about the other side of this debate the woman/wife/daughter/friends in my life and the wider Irish population and their needs.

That's perfectly understandable, when you do have more time please jump back into the discussion, I'm interested to hear your issues regarding the process and what you feel would be a more appropriate option.

robarmstrong

robarmstrong wrote: »

Infractions or bans aren't worth it lads and lasses it only adds fuel to the fire and will let them know that we've been gotten to.

Instead let's just continue to point out the abundance of flaws in their arguments and counter them all with facts to beat the band, eventually they'll either end up getting themselves banned or just slinking back into the caves when the 8th is repealed.

Well one of them that was banned from here for not answering question or providing proof of their statements is posting on a thread about vaccinations. When asked for to provide proof they posted a link that's been deleted from a site regarding abortion in Ireland and telling people to visit the regret site to learn about the dangers of vaccinations.
When asked if all vaccinations were dangerous aparently only the hpv one is.

david75

DubInMeath wrote: »

Well one of them that was banned from here for not answering question or providing proof of their statements is posting on a thread about vaccinations. When asked for to provide proof they posted a link that's been deleted from a site regarding abortion in Ireland and telling people to visit the regret site to learn about the dangers of vaccinations.
When asked if all vaccinations were dangerous aparently only the hpv one is.

Don’t think we have to guess who that might be. Endless soapboxing and his opinion is fact end of story. No talking to him at all.

January

david75 wrote: »

Nothing like approaching a brain or nervous system though right?

Well they've a brain stem but no nervous system at that stage.

January

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=157228251618267&id=142243109783448

This is the reality of the 8th amendment. A fetus dying inside a woman's womb yet because it still has even a semblance of a heart beat they cannot help her. High risk of infection. Which infection would that be you ask,? Same thing that led to Savitas death.

david75

January wrote: »

Well they've a brain stem but no nervous system at that stage.

Thanks. We should do random facts like this when the thread gets busy.

david75

david75 wrote: »

Don’t think we have to guess who that might be. Endless soapboxing and his opinion is fact end of story. No talking to him at all.

Actually a woman.

And I stand corrected the one for the Flu is also dangerous in their opinion.

kylith

david75 wrote: »

A foetus has a heartbeat at 12 weeks? Really?

Actually, yes. But not a brain.