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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #1442
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    1) It's not as simple as giving it up for adoption. There are a multitude of reasons for having an abortion and the 8th affects them all

    2) There are a multitude of reasons for having an abortion. The 8th affects them all.

    3) Where have you recently seen pro-choice people saying that it's only religious nutters who are pro-life?
    do you use social media
    4) Everyone is entitled to free speech, even those that disagree with others. You have a right to an opinion. Others have a right to have an opinion on your opinion.
    totally agree
    5) I guess I'm an SJW (:rolleyes:) for even replying to you, but if you're going to automatically dismiss those who disagree with you as SJW crazies, you cannot expect a reasonable discussion. Also, do you see the hypocrisy of saying that pro-choice are dismissing pro-life as religious nuts, whilst you dismiss pro-choice as SJWs?
    it's usually the sjw folk who are hypocrits, spouting about free speech but yet trying their hardest to shut down anyone with an opposing opinion


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    #1443
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    italodisco wrote: »
    I don't live in a bubble rob, that's how things work in the real world. I know 3 separate individuals (friends) who have had an abortion and 2 of them certainly did it simply because it would have impacted on what they saw as their own freedom to enjoy their life.

    I didn't give my opinion as it wasn't my choice or business to do so but I personally found it quite harsh.

    If you have to ask me if I have evidence for my previous post then you must be extremely naive to think that type of thing wouldn't happen.

    I suppose you think I'm a religious pro life head too

    You'd have to be extremely naive to think that type of thing would happen.

    thee glitz wrote: »
    What's the difference?

    There's no such thing as "abortion on demand", that implies droves and droves of pregnant women waltzing in and getting an abortion then and there on the day. Unrestricted abortion is the ability to apply for an abortion without having to satisfy the 8th's previous restrictions. Why is that so difficult to grasp?


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    #1444
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    What's SJW?


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    #1445
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    amdublin wrote: »
    What's SJW?

    Seriously Juicy Wahlburgers.


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    #1446
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    italodisco wrote: »
    it's usually the sjw folk who are hypocrits, spouting about free speech but yet trying their hardest to shut down anyone with an opposing opinion


    Yes I use social media. So far, I haven't seen anyone saying the other side are not allowed an opinion. I have seen people start whinging when someone opposes their opinion that they're being bullied and having their opinion shot down. I've seen people think they have a right to an unchallenged opinion, despite airing the opinion in a public forum. I have yet to see anyone even imply that the other side cannot have an opinion


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    #1447
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    amdublin wrote: »
    Who are you to judge their reasons. They knew best. Let people decide for themselves.

    If you get pregnant and feel you can't do it because of your anxiety but must do it because of your personal morals then that is great. I am genuinely pleased for you if thats yoir choice.

    Stop pushing your decisions and beliefs on to other people.

    In other words take your nose out of other people's bedrooms and vaginas and mind your own business.

    Post above is a typical example of someone who can't read.
    I never pushed my opinion on anyone.
    I expressed my opinion.
    I would never go out of my way to advise someone to not have an abortion.
    You are asking me to take my nose out of other people's business? I suggest you don't reply to me so as that would indicate you have your nose in mine?

    Next level triggered


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    #1448
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    thee glitz wrote: »
    That's exactly why it matters. Are we all gathered here to discuss repealing so women getting the treatment they need, or just pretending and using special cases as a justification for abortion for any reason?

    The first thing that needs to happen is repealing the 8th. And I honestly cannot understand how anyone can be against that as it is dangerous.

    After that, we all have different ideas and opinions on what is reasonable and what is not. But we can’t all have exactly our own way, so we listen to groups like the citizens assembly and the oireachtas committee and lobby our politicians for what it is we want, and we reach a consensus and legislate on that basis.

    The ‘special cases’ are often highlighted as they are clearly tragic and really do show the shortcomings of our current legislation. Some people would be happy if only those cases were catered for. Some people want more availability. Some want situations like Canada where there are no limits. But none of these, regardless of where you draw your personal line, can be allowed while the 8th is still in the constitution.


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Some time before she died perhaps - I'm not a doctor. At which point did she request one?
    Well I am a doctor (no longer practicing) ang from reading the report it seems that although her pregnancy was deemed high risk due to her immaturity, her life was not what could be considered significantly at risk until the first signs of her embolism. At which time it was too late.

    The time when she should have been offered a termination, if that was what she wanted, was as early in her pregnancy as possible.

    Most children don't get pregnant. If it puts her life at risk, they shouldn't go through with it. Certainly, it's a special case.

    Agreed. Children should not get pregnant. All pregnancies put a woman’s life at greater risk than not being pregnant. If you want to allow children to have abortions on the basis of their age alone, you need to repeal the 8th to allow this to happen.
    Maybe there's nothing could have done. If there was evidence that the girl's life was at risk, maybe they could have done something about it. The spirit of the law seems to allow saving women's live.

    The spirit of the law is not good enough. The actual words need to allow it.
    thee glitz wrote: »
    It's not me sacrificing the health of women - it's those who don't see medical reasons as a special case.

    If you vote to retain the 8th, then you are sarcraficing the health of women.


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    #1449
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭swampgas


    italodisco wrote: »
    Post above is a typical example of someone who can't read.
    I never pushed my opinion on anyone.
    I expressed my opinion.
    I would never go out of my way to advise someone to not have an abortion.
    You are asking me to take my nose out of other people's business? I suggest you don't reply to me so as that would indicate you have your nose in mine?

    Are you in favour of repealing the 8th?


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    #1450
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    amdublin wrote: »
    What's SJW?


    Social Justice Warrior. They're the loons that cry abuse at every wrong look, or another name that people with right wing views give anyone with a left wing view.


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    #1451
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Yes I use social media. So far, I haven't seen anyone saying the other side are not allowed an opinion. I have seen people start whinging when someone opposes their opinion that they're being bullied and having their opinion shot down. I've seen people think they have a right to an unchallenged opinion, despite airing the opinion in a public forum. I have yet to see anyone even imply that the other side cannot have an opinion

    So why did the pro choice group call a hotel and make threats because the pro life group were having some praise jebus save the babies event? Would that not be considered trying to stop them have an opinion?


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    #1452
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Social Justice Warrior. They're the loons that cry abuse at every wrong look, or another name that people with right wing views give anyone with a left wing view.

    So now I am right wing because I can't stand liberals / socialists etc?


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    #1453
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭swampgas


    italodisco wrote: »
    So now I am right wing because I can't stand liberals / socialists etc?

    Yes.

    Which state do you live in? Your views sound very .... US-centric.


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    #1454
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    italodisco wrote: »
    Post above is a typical example of someone who can't read.
    I never pushed my opinion on anyone.
    I expressed my opinion.
    I would never go out of my way to advise someone to not have an abortion.
    You are asking me to take my nose out of other people's business? I suggest you don't reply to me so as that would indicate you have your nose in mine?

    Next level triggered
    italodisco wrote: »
    I don't live in a bubble rob, that's how things work in the real world.

    Sounds like you're pushing an opinion of "how things work in the real world" on me by insinuating I live in a bubble.

    Have you actually got anything to contribute to the thread or do you wanna come in, soapbox for a bit, call people social justice warriors and just be generally ridiculous?


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    #1455
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    swampgas wrote: »
    Are you in favour of repealing the 8th?

    Honestly, I'm 99% in favour of repealing..... But the idea that someone would have a termination simply to suit their lifestyle is whats starting to get to me....

    If I was forced to vote I would have to go with a vote in favour of repealing the 8th....


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    #1456
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    thee glitz wrote: »
    What's the difference?



    Yes, indirectly. By not opposing abortion for any reason as being the result of repealing the 8th, they are turning voters away.



    Are they, though, or is that your opinion.

    Maybe we’re just unwilling to lie. I don’t oppose abortion for the woman’s own reasons


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    #1457
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    italodisco wrote: »
    Honestly, I'm 99% in favour of repealing..... But the idea that someone would have a termination simply to suit their lifestyle is whats starting to get to me....

    If I was forced to vote I would have to go with a vote in favour of repealing the 8th....

    Nobody is forcing you to vote.

    An idea does not necessarily mean there will be a resulting action.


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    #1458
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Sounds like you're pushing an opinion of "how things work in the real world" on me by insinuating I live in a bubble.

    Have you actually got anything to contribute to the thread or do you wanna come in, soapbox for a bit, call people social justice warriors and just be generally ridiculous?

    Rob, I'm just going on life experience and what I have encountered, you asked if I have evidence and I gave an example to you.

    Try to control yourself


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    #1459
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    italodisco wrote: »
    No.

    It's not a good enough reason to terminate a life.

    Have the child, give it up for adoption if you can't raise it.

    As an anxiety sufferer myself I know only too well about making rash decisions based on an over thought out fear etc.

    Many choices I've made due to anxiety I have seriously regretted down the line which in turn just made it worse for me.

    I'd love to vote in favour of choice but unfortunately the reality is plenty of people will terminate just to suit their lifestyle / career etc.

    As for the pro choice side constantly trying to make out the pro life lot are a bunCh of religious nutters, they are just as entitled to an opinion as the supposedly free speech left wing.

    Can't wait for the barrage of sjw types to come at me now and give me hell for having an opinion yawn

    I just can't see this happening. It just doesn't sound realistic does it?

    Big queues of ladies lining up for their abortions on demand to suit their lifestyle / career etc.


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    #1460
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    BabysCoffee wrote: »
    I just can't see this happening. It just doesn't sound realistic does it?

    Big queues of ladies lining up for their abortions on demand to suit their lifestyle / career etc.

    It's how things work in the real world, silly.


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    #1461
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    italodisco wrote: »
    Rob, I'm just going on life experience and what I have encountered, you asked if I have evidence and I gave an example to you.

    Try to control yourself

    Anecdotal life experience is not evidence.

    Try again.

    Control myself? Grow up.


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    #1462
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It's how things work in the real world, silly.

    I look forward to demanding abortions when the 8th is repealed.

    One for everyone in the audience.


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    #1463
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    italodisco wrote: »
    So why did the pro choice group call a hotel and make threats because the pro life group were having some praise jebus save the babies event? Would that not be considered trying to stop them have an opinion?

    Why did you mention that, and not that pro-life groups have cause pro-choice events to be cancelled? Wasn't there something funky about that story?
    italodisco wrote: »
    So now I am right wing because I can't stand liberals / socialists etc?

    You seem quite determined to paint yourself as some sort of victim in all this. Is being right wing now a bad thing?


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    #1464
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Nobody is forcing you to vote.

    An idea does not necessarily mean there will be a resulting action.

    I know I know...... I have a daughter and I would like her to have her own choice when she's grown up...

    If I do use my vote it will be yes, I'm just not sure if I should vote or not.

    I've never been one to have a conscience until now


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    #1465
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭swampgas


    italodisco wrote: »
    Honestly, I'm 99% in favour of repealing..... But the idea that someone would have a termination simply to suit their lifestyle is whats starting to get to me....

    If I was forced to vote I would have to go with a vote in favour of repealing the 8th....

    It shouldn't. It's a crock. It's simply a way of saying that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. What the hell is this "lifestyle" nonsense, anyway? Having a child is not like picking out new wallpaper, it's a huge huge decision to make, either way. And if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, who knows better than she does about whether that's the right decsion or not?


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    #1466
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Why did you mention that, and not that pro-life groups have cause pro-choice events to be cancelled? Wasn't there something funky about that story?



    You seem quite determined to paint yourself as some sort of victim in all this. Is being right wing now a bad thing?

    I'm no victim lol

    And it depends on what right wing stance a person has.

    I'd have no issue with an economically right wing view at all but I'd have a huge issue with groups like pegida


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    #1467
    Bredabe
    Registered Users Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    italodisco wrote: »
    Honestly, I'm 99% in favour of repealing..... But the idea that someone would have a termination simply to suit their lifestyle is whats starting to get to me....

    If I was forced to vote I would have to go with a vote in favour of repealing the 8th....

    Pregnant people who terminate to suit their lifestyle, statistically more likely to benignly neglect the child, I don't have the stats on that, but I know from experience that ppl more interested in external forces rarely change.

    *benign neglect is as damaging to a child as telling the child it was unwanted and what a nuisance it is.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



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    #1468
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    italodisco wrote: »
    I'm no victim lol

    And it depends on what right wing stance a person has.

    I'd have no issue with an economically right wing view at all but I'd have a huge issue with groups like pegida

    As do I, and an issue with "left wing" extreme groups like PETA, so can we please drop the whole SJW, religious nutters rubbish that doesn't actually apply to anyone here?


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    #1469
    italodisco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭italodisco


    BabysCoffee wrote: »
    I look forward to demanding abortions when the 8th is repealed.

    One for everyone in the audience.

    Cop on


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    #1470
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Bredabe wrote: »
    Pregnant people who terminate to suit their lifestyle, statistically more likely to benignly neglect the child, I don't have the stats on that, but I know from experience that ppl more interested in external forces rarely change.

    *benign neglect is as damaging to a child as telling the child it was unwanted and what a nuisance it is.

    I'm not surprised.


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    #1471
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    italodisco wrote: »
    Have the child, give it up for adoption if you can't raise it.

    Cop on.


    italodisco wrote: »
    I'd love to vote in favour of choice but unfortunately the reality is plenty of people will terminate just to suit their lifestyle / career etc.

    Cop on.

    italodisco wrote: »
    Can't wait for the barrage of sjw types to come at me now and give me hell for having an opinion yawn

    Cop on.

    I can do it too go me!


This discussion has been closed.
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