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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #2552
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Berserker wrote: »
    Open prescriptions and scrapping of the three day wait are two.

    But those are just details in the legislation to follow. NOTHING in the legislation would encourage me to keep the 8th.

    Even if no legislation gets passed, and the PLDPA remains in force, repealing the 8th will improve the situation.


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    #2553
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #2554
    lunamoon
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lunamoon


    As a pregnant woman, I will be voting to repeal the 8th. Here are my views:

    - I'm against abortion. I would never have one including if my unborn baby had a FFA.
    - If (touch wood it doesn't happen) I was somehow in a horrific accident and I was relying on life support I would like it kept on until my unborn child could be born safely.
    - If I contracted a disease or illness and the drug is harmful to my unborn baby I would refuse to take them.

    All of the above would be MY choice. Just because I would do the above doesn't mean anyone else should be forced to do it. Every woman should have the right to choose what she wants to do with her own body.


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    #2555
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    lunamoon wrote: »
    As a pregnant woman, I will be voting to repeal the 8th. Here are my views:

    - I'm against abortion. I would never have one including if my unborn baby had a FFA.
    - If (touch wood it doesn't happen) I was somehow in a horrific accident and I was relying on life support I would like it kept on until my unborn child could be born safely.
    - If I contracted a disease or illness and the drug is harmful to my unborn baby I would refuse to take them.

    All of the above would be MY choice. Just because I would do the above doesn't mean anyone else should be forced to do it. Everyone woman should have the right to choose what she wants to do with her own body.

    Your compassion comes through in this post. Fair play to recognising what is your choice does not have to be every woman's choice. And other women's choice does not have to be the same as yours.

    Best of luck to you and baby! Exciting times ahead


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    #2556
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Berserker wrote: »
    Firstly, they make me balk, as a 'Yes' voter. I'm going to be open and admit that I am biased here because I come from a family of doctors. Open prescriptions and scrapping of the three day wait are two. On the waiting period, I think that is is common sense to have the window as it will give women the medical support they need during the abortion. I'm not even going to comment on why open prescriptions are a bad idea for abortion pills. That should be self evident. I'm going to be very clear on how I view it. Abortion should be available, unrestricted but the women should have multiple visits to her doctor, during which she can get he care she requires. This nonsense of only needing one visit because I'm too busy and I should be able to get my open ended prescription, is only going to lead to issues for the patient and she will end up sitting in A&E, adding to that problem. If we are going to do this, let's do this properly and give women the services and support they need to do it.

    Women take abortion pills they've imported in their bedrooms every day. Women in Scotland have recently been able to only have one visit to their doctor to take the pill and have been sent home to take the other pills on their own. I don't see an issue with this, the pills are safe, I've taken them myself. It's not rocket science. Take pill 1, wait 24 hours then place 2 pills under your tongue/between your gum and your cheek and let them dissolve. The abortion starts pretty soon afterwards once the second pills are taken. Not many people end up in a&e because of them.


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    #2557
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    January wrote: »
    Women take abortion pills they've imported in their bedrooms every day. Women in Scotland have recently been able to only have one visit to their doctor to take the pill and have been sent home to take the other pills on their own. I don't see an issue with this, the pills are safe, I've taken them myself. It's not rocket science. Take pill 1, wait 24 hours then place 2 pills under your tongue/between your gum and your cheek and let them dissolve. The abortion starts pretty soon afterwards once the second pills are taken. Not many people end up in a&e because of them.

    I'm a bit confused by this post, and surprised actually!


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    #2558
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Edward M wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused by this post, and surprised actually!

    What part is confusing I will try explain it better.


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    #2559
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    We need to make sure all women have support access.
    Thats what those who want a yes vote want
    TerryDublin wrote: »
    Why are you ask me about health risk when I say in my post that I want woman who need abortion to be able to have one.

    I don't understand. You just said you don't

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2560
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    Youre not reading my post! I never said this.

    You didn't say it. You are being asked what if this was the case.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2561
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    January wrote: »
    What part is confusing I will try explain it better.

    I thought going through the medical services was the best option.
    I know the pill can be taken at home, but the way you said it it sounds like it should be nearly available at the chemist, no doc needed at all?


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    #2562
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    I feel the Government have not fully represented my view. I always planned to vote for repeal as I don't want any woman who needs an abortion unable to have one. But I am against abortion otherwise so what do I vote.

    My sons fiance is pregnant and we all watched her first scan on DVD. So excited all of us. How could I vote for laws that would mean she could end their babys life. My grandchilds life. I know its so young so small but its still living you know. If she would want to do such a thing I would want her helped with why she would want to do this. If it was finance or fear of not coping. Help with these.

    All around me my friends work people seem to be caught up in this but only from the view of the woman and her rights reproductive. The baby seems to be lost in all of this. Forgotten. Women have so much help with difficulties they face and I am happy for this but why is stopping the baby to live further seen so insignificant. I hope I am wrong and I can vote for repeal but not abortion as birth control only abnormalities rape etc.

    Why would you think that your son's fiance would consider an abortion just because the 8th is repealed?

    You do know that she could have an abortion right now? She could get on the plane to England or she could order pills online.

    I presume she wouldn't do this because she is carrying a very wanted baby (as most are). The 8th being repealed will not change this.


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    #2563
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    I feel the Government have not fully represented my view. I always planned to vote for repeal as I don't want any woman who needs an abortion unable to have one. But I am against abortion otherwise so what do I vote.

    My sons fiance is pregnant and we all watched her first scan on DVD. So excited all of us. How could I vote for laws that would mean she could end their babys life. My grandchilds life. I know its so young so small but its still living you know. If she would want to do such a thing I would want her helped with why she would want to do this. If it was finance or fear of not coping. Help with these.

    All around me my friends work people seem to be caught up in this but only from the view of the woman and her rights reproductive. The baby seems to be lost in all of this. Forgotten. Women have so much help with difficulties they face and I am happy for this but why is stopping the baby to live further seen so insignificant. I hope I am wrong and I can vote for repeal but not abortion as birth control only abnormalities rape etc.

    Trust your daughter in law to make the right decision for herself and your son.


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    #2564
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    it's spelled baulk

    and I expect the Vote No 'bots' will be out in force from now on


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    #2565
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Edward M wrote: »
    I thought going through the medical services was the best option.
    I know the pill can be taken at home, but the way you said it it sounds like it should be nearly available at the chemist, no doc needed at all?

    Sorry you took me up wrong. Yes going through the medical services is the best option and an option that shouldn't be skipped. But people don't need two/three gp apps to complete the process. They don't need a waiting period between the GP appt and getting access to the pills. Even online you have to have a medical assessment and a doctor looks over it before you're approved.


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    #2566
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    January wrote: »
    Even online you have to have a medical assessment and a doctor looks over it before you're approved.
    What form does this assessment take? I actually am genuinely curious.


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    #2567
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    pleas advice wrote: »
    What form does this assessment take? I actually am genuinely curious.

    It asks estimated gestation, if you have an iud any known allergies if you've a heart condition if you've a doctor or hospital within a certain distance whether you're being forced into the abortion or not whether you are OK with having the abortion or if you're unsure etc. How many pregnancies you've had before if youve had an abortion before.if you've had an ultrasound or not (it is recommended but not mandatory just in case the pregnancy is ectopic)

    Its not foolproof but if a doctor has any concerns they'll contact you for further information.

    Its why I think having a consultation with a doctor is important.


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    #2568
    Constabulary
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1 ✭Constabulary


    What’s people’s here consensus, will the referendum pass or fail and by how much?


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    #2569
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Constabulary wrote: »
    What’s people’s here consensus, will the referendum pass or fail and by how much?

    Pass. Hopefully by around 60/40 but I'll take anything once it passes.


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    #2570
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Constabulary wrote: »
    What’s people’s here consensus, will the referendum pass or fail and by how much?

    I think it will pass. I've really no idea how much by.

    I want it to pass. I don't mind by how much or little


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    #2571
    Oldtree
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    January wrote: »
    Pass. Hopefully by around 60/40 but I'll take anything once it passes.

    The same sex referendum had a relative drop in a red sea poll (from about this time) before the referendum to the result of 8.68%.

    The current red Sea has yes at about 56% and if it was to follow a similar relative drop up to voting. then the yes would be around 51.14%. So I am going for 51% yes (possibly more) depending on how the undisideds vote, turnout, maby up as high as 56% yes is not inconceivable.

    But there are far more undecided this time round at

    For interest:

    Latest red Sea 56% yes 26% no 16% undecided 2% refused

    CFJE4PqWYAAQiC7?format=png

    Poll 68% yes 22% no 10% undecided

    Result 62.9% yes 37.9% no

    The divorce referendum is from an.ireland long gone so I don't think its worth using the figures to do a similar comparison with.

    CEj6RW5WIAAbRtE?format=jpg


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    #2572
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    Well, its up and running, the save the eighth campaign is officially launched.
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/doctor-using-braindead-woman-as-incubator-was-noble-36758629.html


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    #2573
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    I feel the Government have not fully represented my view. I always planned to vote for repeal as I don't want any woman who needs an abortion unable to have one. But I am against abortion otherwise so what do I vote.

    My sons fiance is pregnant and we all watched her first scan on DVD. So excited all of us. How could I vote for laws that would mean she could end their babys life. My grandchilds life. I know its so young so small but its still living you know. If she would want to do such a thing I would want her helped with why she would want to do this. If it was finance or fear of not coping. Help with these.

    All around me my friends work people seem to be caught up in this but only from the view of the woman and her rights reproductive. The baby seems to be lost in all of this. Forgotten. Women have so much help with difficulties they face and I am happy for this but why is stopping the baby to live further seen so insignificant. I hope I am wrong and I can vote for repeal but not abortion as birth control only abnormalities rape etc.

    But she doesn't want to have an abortion and nobody is going to force her to have one so...?


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    #2574
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    TerryDublin wrote: »
    Yes this I feel is okay.



    If no abnormality ffa risk to life like you said then waht are the reasons which justify ending babys life?

    In your first post you said
    I always planned to vote for repeal as I don't want any woman who needs an abortion unable to have one.

    Why has your mind changed over the past 3 pages?


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    #2575
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    ....... wrote: »
    What if it was something that couldnt be helped?

    I never want children. NEVER. Ive plenty of money and I would cope fine with stress/lack of sleep/lack of support/lifestyle changes etc...

    But I dont want kids. Why on earth would it be a good thing to force a woman like me to be a mother? It happened my mother. She didnt want kids, but there were no other choices. She let us know it all our lives.

    Mine too. Since I was old enough to understand she told my sister and I to "never have children".


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    #2576
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,690 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Because it is your biological duty, woman, and it is evil and unnatural not to have children. Wanting has nothing to do with it, you owe it to the rest of us!

    (OWTTE)
    image.png



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    #2577
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Is anybody else concerned that the legalization of abortion could be used to target women in poorer demographics? Many of these women may be seen as a burden to the state, unemployed, living in state housing, not contributing from financially to the state? Could there be an ulterior motive behind this referendum?


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    #2578
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Is anybody else concerned that the legalization of abortion could be used to target women in poorer demographics? Many of these women may be seen as a burden to the state, unemployed, living in state housing, not contributing from financially to the state? Could there be an ulterior motive behind this referendum?

    Nobody is going to be forced to have an abortion. No one. It doesn't happen in countries where abortion is already legal and it won't happen here.


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    #2579
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Is anybody else concerned that the legalization of abortion could be used to target women in poorer demographics? Many of these women may be seen as a burden to the state, unemployed, living in state housing, not contributing from financially to the state? Could there be an ulterior motive behind this referendum?

    Trite rubbish of the type we can expect from now to referendum day,
    Remember the divorce referendum in '95 ..."Hello Divorce, Goodbye Daddy"


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    #2580
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Nobody is going to be forced to have an abortion. No one. It doesn't happen in countries where abortion is already legal and it won't happen here.

    Correct but easier access and free access might encourage abortions


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    #2581
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Correct but easier access and free access might encourage abortions

    Women who want to be pregnant are not suddenly going to want abortions because they are legal, that's genuinely crazy - what would make you think they would change their mind like that?

    It's women who genuinely want or need abortions who are currently being "encouraged" (coerced would be a better word) by the 8th to continue a pregnancy that they don't want, or which is damaging their health, or which is not viable. Changing that is a good thing.


This discussion has been closed.
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