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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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    #2942
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,531 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    No, they don't, but no is still their answer.


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    #2943
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    You can see one of the things that was really driving it :

    Farming Humans - take away their babies and sell them, and keep them for work :

    The Irish Responsible Society, of which five key PLAC (Pro-Life Amendment Campaign ) leaders were members, was the Irish branch of the group led by the English right-wing Catholic activist Valerie Riches

    The first action of her Irish followers was to campaign against a small State grant to the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre.

    Its next campaign was against the removal of the stigma of illegitimacy from children born out of wedlock.




    http://littleatoms.com/penance-industry

    As recently as the 1980s and 1990s, though, I remember witnessing at first hand, this world, where fervent religiosity melded with an invisible, and profitable economy.

    Like thousands of women in 20th century Ireland, Elsie was put in a convent for a life sentence.

    Her crime?

    Having a child out of wedlock.


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    #2944
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    thee glitz wrote: »
    No idea, but I'd like to see it discussed.

    Well. You're pro life. What's your view.


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    #2945
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    That article.

    Why are some people so intent on controlling other people's bedroom activity and wombs.

    Sigh.


    https://www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup-614595?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share


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    #2946
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Sorry to hear something terrible happened to someone close to you. I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.
    Who is "they"? I genuinely know hundreds of pro choice people who who care about what happens to victims of rape, who are genuinely concerned about their welfare, about what they might go through in unwanted pregnancy, about the possible trauma that might cause during pregnancy and even after they make a decision to have the baby e.g. post natal depression. Of course not every victim of rape wants to abort, but some do make that decision and the idea that they should forced against their will to go through the full 9 months if it is an unwanted pregnancy is abhorrent. I just cant figure who "they" is. Are you talking me and all the other pro choice posters here. I havent seen anyone here used victims of rape in a pro choice agenda. In fact it is the opposite many people are pro choice because they care and are compssionate towards women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2947
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,946 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    gctest50 wrote: »
    You can see one of the things that was really driving it :

    Farming Humans - take away their babies and sell them, and keep them for work :

    Replying with "#LoveBoth" would just be too easy, like Homer beating up the Krusty Burglar.


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    #2948
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Sorry to hear something terrible happened to someone close to you. I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.

    This doesn't make any sense to me, maybe it's the fact that I'm tired. But your saying that the pro choice side don't actually care about these women and are using them just so they can have abortion on demand?

    Sorry but that myth has been debunked already as far as I'm concerened. What hasn't been debunked is the PLC side insisting that we don't need to repeal as the health care and assistance that these women receive is fine as long as another child is brought into the world.


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    #2949
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    thee glitz wrote:
    I'm saying that they don't particularly care, pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming to do so while pushing for a regime more liberal than required to help them.
    Who the hell is they.

    Most people who are pro choice are so because they care about the lives of women effected by the 8th.

    It's the pro life side that have shown here to be lacking in compassion.


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    #2950
    thee glitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    January wrote: »

    Well. You're pro life. What's your view.[/quote]

    My view is that I've no knowledge of constitutional law or skills in drafting it to be able to propose an amendment that would allow for abortion where reasonably necessary, but also prevent legislation allowing it where not, just that I'd like to see it discussed by those best placed to do so.

    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Who is "they"? I genuinely know hundreds of pro choice people who who care about what happens to victims of rape, who are genuinely concerned about their welfare, about what they might go through in unwanted pregnancy, about the possible trauma that might cause during pregnancy and even after they make a decision to have the baby e.g. post natal depression. Of course not every victim of rape wants to abort, but some do make that decision and the idea that they should forced against their will to go through the full 9 months if it is an unwanted pregnancy is abhorrent. I just cant figure who "they" is. Are you talking me and all the other pro choice posters here.

    "They" is loads of people here.
    I havent seen anyone here used victims of rape in a pro choice agenda.
    It's a pro-choice tactic, visible in this thread. Sometimes coupled with rape for added distress.
    In fact it is the opposite many people are pro choice because they care and are compssionate towards women who find themselves in difficult circumstances.

    How is that the opposite? They show that they don't particularly care about rape victims, FFA etc by not seeking that proposed legislation be more restrictive.


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    #2951
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    every pole on the N4 has been done
    I'm going to report them for false message

    1 in 5 babies are aborted in the UK
    THEY ARE FOETUSES

    A foetus is an unborn human being after 8 weeks. However what do you believe is the difference in moral worth between a foetus and a born baby? Physically the only difference is in growth and development. In your opinion why is it moral to terminate the life of one and not the other?


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    #2952
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,531 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Most Constitutional lawyers, save Mr. Binchy, don't believe it's possible to compose an Amendment that incorporates the complexity of the abortion issue.
    BTW we have history to prove Mr. Binchy was radically wrong, the last time.


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    #2953
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    sean635 wrote: »
    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    every pole on the N4 has been done
    I'm going to report them for false message

    1 in 5 babies are aborted in the UK
    THEY ARE FOETUSES

    A foetus is an unborn human being after 8 weeks. However what do you believe is the difference in moral worth between a foetus and a born baby? Physically the only difference is in growth and development. In your opinion why is it moral to terminate the life of one and not the other?

    I'm not sure what is the post and what is the quote above...but I'm really not sure what is the 8 week timeframe mentioned in this post??


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    #2954
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    amdublin wrote: »
    That article.

    Why are some people so intent on controlling other people's bedroom activity and wombs.

    Sigh.


    https://www.joe.ie/life-style/story-of-the-8th-how-right-wing-catholic-groups-staged-a-remarkable-political-coup-614595?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onsite_share

    Religious zealotry.
    Misogyny.
    Sexual repression.
    Control.
    Money.

    There's more but it'd be a long list.


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    #2955
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    amdublin wrote: »
    sean635 wrote: »

    I'm not sure what is the post and what is the quote above...but I'm really not sure what is the 8 week timeframe mentioned in this post??

    Apologies. I edited and fixed the quote box. By 8 weeks I mean by 8 weeks gestation it’s considered a foetus. Before that it’s an embryo


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    #2956
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    thee glitz wrote: »


    How is that the opposite? They show that they don't particularly care about rape victims, FFA etc by not seeking that proposed legislation be more restrictive.

    Are you claiming that because the majority of pro Repeal give enough of a **** about ALL womens health care, they don't care enough about specific cases?

    D'ya know, you've got us. It's mandatory abortions we're after, we got a big truck load of hammers cheap from some commies, and we want to use them. And we've own the land that all the abortion clinics are going want.


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    #2957
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    sean635 wrote: »

    Apologies. I edited and fixed the quote box. By 8 weeks I mean by 8 weeks gestation it’s considered a foetus. Before that it’s an embryo

    Weren't you banned from posting in this thread?


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    #2958
    thee glitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    This doesn't make any sense to me, maybe it's the fact that I'm tired. But your saying that the pro choice side don't actually care about these women and are using them just so they can have abortion on demand?

    I'm tired too, but here goes... No, I'm not saying that they dont care about them. Yes, I'm saying that they are using them to push abortion on demand. They may care about them, but not as much as they claim to, and not even necessarily
    as much as some who intend voting No. The agenda is abortion on demand, stories of rape victims are a happy convenience.
    Sorry but that myth has been debunked already as far as I'm concerened.
    I don't think so?
    What hasn't been debunked is the PLC side insisting that we don't need to repeal as the health care and assistance that these women receive is fine as long as another child is brought into the world.

    What's PLC if not a college course? We can probably do better than the 8th but who's got the palatable solution?


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    #2959
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,080 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    thee glitz wrote: »

    How is that the opposite? They show that they don't particularly care about rape victims, FFA etc by not seeking that proposed legislation be more restrictive.

    Are you completely unaware of the reasoning behind the 12 week proposal? It is proposed mainly to address the issue of women who have been raped to avoid retraumatising them through different medical and legal processes.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2960
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Religious zealotry.
    Misogyny.
    Sexual repression.
    Control.
    Money.

    There's more but it'd be a long list.

    Reading the article it’s clear that the Eight Amendment was religiously motivated. But I don’t think that’s a ground for removing it. The amendment itself does not concern religion. There is no mention of god or the church in it’s text. All it does is guarantees an equality of rights between the mother and the unborn. There are atheological arguements for this as well which I believe are the only arguements that matter.


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    #2961
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    January wrote: »
    Weren't you banned from posting in this thread?

    I didn’t realize it was permanent. I thought it had been lifted


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    #2962
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    thee glitz wrote: »
    I'm tired too, but here goes... No, I'm not saying that they dont care about them. Yes, I'm saying that they are using them to push abortion on demand. They may care about them, but not as much as they claim to, and not even necessarily
    as much as some who intend voting No. The agenda is abortion on demand, stories of rape victims are a happy convenience.


    I don't think so?



    What's PLC if not a college course? We can probably do better than the 8th but who's got the palatable solution?

    Your posting on a thread regarding the repal or not of the 8th and you don't know that PLC stands for Pro Life Campaign, as it's been used and explained as such already.

    Rape victims etc are a happy convenience for the repeal side, I'm sorry but your posting crap.

    Edit: if you feel your not post links proving that these people are being used by the pro choice side.


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    #2963
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    thee glitz wrote: »
    ..........


    What's PLC if not a college course? .....

    google etc is a search engine, giving a bit of context helps

    try :

    PLC abortion


    http://bfy.tw/HRG7



    hth


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    #2964
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    sean635 wrote: »
    I didn’t realize it was permanent. I thought it had been lifted

    Oh you were told it had been lifted?


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    #2965
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,603 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    sean635 wrote: »
    amdublin wrote: »

    Apologies. I edited and fixed the quote box. By 8 weeks I mean by 8 weeks gestation it’s considered a foetus. Before that it’s an embryo


    MOD NOTE
    Your thread band. Don't post here again!


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    #2966
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    amdublin wrote: »
    Oh you were told it had been lifted?

    I was told my banning from after hours had been lifted. Does that not mean I’m allowed to post here now?


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    #2967
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    groundhog day .........


    thee glitz wrote: »
    ..........


    What's PLC if not a college course? .....

    gctest50 wrote: »

    bertieinexile wrote: »

    Who are PLC? google is giving me Post Leaving Certificate Courses and of course Public Limited Company.....



    You have to "help" it some bit, bit of context like

    http://bfy.tw/HK9V


    ,
    ,


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    #2968
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,603 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    sean635 wrote: »
    I was told my banning from after hours had been lifted. Does that not mean I’m allowed to post here now?

    Hi!
    You can still post in After Hours but your banned from this thread!


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    #2969
    sean635
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭sean635


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Hi!
    You can still post in After Hours but your banned from this thread!

    Ok. Sorry.
    Leaving now


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    #2970
    thee glitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Are you claiming that because the majority of pro Repeal give enough of a **** about ALL womens health care, they don't care enough about specific cases?

    Abortion isn't healthy or care for the foetus concerned, so considering the procedure 'healthcare' is inaccurate in most instances.

    What I'm saying is that they're pushing for a liberal abortion regime where the alternative is retention of the 8th. This can't be considered having a great concern for supposedly special cases, yet many claim to do so over those who would allow for it but who are also uncomfortable with abortion on demand.
    D'ya know, you've got us. It's mandatory abortions we're after, we got a big truck load of hammers cheap from some commies, and we want to use them. And we've own the land that all the abortion clinics are going want.

    Sounds like sarcasm, but can we be sure..?


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    #2971
    thee glitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    gctest50 wrote: »
    thee glitz wrote: »
    ..........


    What's PLC if not a college course? .....

    google etc is a search engine, giving a bit of context helps

    try :

    PLC abortion


    http://bfy.tw/HRG7



    hth
    I appreciate that you've gone to some effort, but it would be more efficient for the sake of all to just spell it out. The number 1 result is Peter Lougheed Centre btw.


This discussion has been closed.
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