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Social Housing: a flawed system

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    #62
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    I have a friend that was given a council house recently. When I heard the location I said to myself. No way.

    I had seen the showhouse in this new build estate and thought if the council own a few maybe they are different sizes , builds etc... they weren't.

    These houses are on sale from €640k for 3 bed and €695k for 4 bed which she is in.

    Mad. I'd kill for that house.

    Its ****ing sickening

    Thats what it is

    Your friend has no right to be in that house

    Thats a house for doctors

    This country is ****ed


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    #63
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users Posts: 3,949 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    Doesn't bother me as there's **** all I can do. Unless I can get a 400 - 500k deposit together I won't be living there sadly :(

    Beautiful houses though.


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    #64
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    thierry14 wrote:
    Your friend has no right to be in that house


    The council own the house and can rent to whom ever fits the rental criteria.
    Do you mourn the loss of the class system?


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    #65
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    The council own the house and can rent to whom ever fits the rental criteria.
    Do you mourn the loss of the class system?

    Maybe the criteria is wrong then. All systems need constant monitoring and changing when circumstances change. The whole idea of a home for life needs to be reviewed. Yes if you need to be housed by the State then fair enough, but don't leave people in three bed semi's when their family's have grown up and left the house.

    It amazes me that we think it is right that some people are looked after while others are not.

    The only issue I see with the council estate is the stigma attached to them because of a small number of problem tenants. Deal with them and you don't have any issues.

    The whole idea of the regulations associated to council properties and HAP properties is ridiculous. I have personally witnessed a private house purchased by the council and the council went in an removed a perfectly functioning kitchen and bathroom and replaced them.

    Some of the council properties and HAP properties are well in much better condition than privately owned properties simply because the privately owned properties can't afford to modernize their property.


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    #66
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    The main issue with social housing is that it removes the need for affordable housing. Which is really what the aim should be. But there's a lot of issues preventing the capacity for it.


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    #67
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    thierry14 wrote: »
    Its ****ing sickening

    Thats what it is

    Your friend has no right to be in that house

    Thats a house for doctors

    This country is ****ed

    Well la di dah.


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    #68
    gar32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    We don't need social housing we need affordable housing. If everyone got a basic income say €1200 a month and if you work you get more of course.

    Then the council building housing for people and anyone can rent or buy paying enough to cover cost of building so tax is not paying directly for people's housing. Tax in paying for people income. It would have to be done on a lagre scale to get prices down but if anyone can buy or move in it will not be a ghetto. If people behave bad and are renting they can be asked to leave. If they have bought the place then the building committee would have to deal with it. (Letters, Warning, stopping services etc until the issue is fixed.)

    A little bit over the top would be something like this. https://www.thevenusproject.com/

    Any large building would do. There are so many block plans where people like living in an apartment. Unless the whole system changes the money and greed will keep things as they are and homelessness will be there to put fear into normal people so the pay €1400 a month (50% tax) on samll 1 bed apartments in Dublin.


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    #69
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    The Student wrote:
    Maybe the criteria is wrong then. All systems need constant monitoring and changing when circumstances change. The whole idea of a home for life needs to be reviewed. Yes if you need to be housed by the State then fair enough, but don't leave people in three bed semi's when their family's have grown up and left the house.


    So people who have a council house get kicked out at a certain stage?despite being part of a community for years. Where do you purpose people go when the kids grow up?


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    #70
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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    #71
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,428 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    what kind of psychological effects could this have on individuals and families?


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    #72
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #73
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    what kind of psychological effects could this have on individuals and families?

    The same when you loose your house because you cant afford the private rent or you cant afford your mortgage!


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    #74
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    ....... wrote:
    This post has been deleted.


    Where are these properties? Very few one bed council properties. Plus you cannot tell someone who has honoured their tenancy time to get out now and move 20 miles away from a community they have been part of.


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    #75
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,428 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The Student wrote: »
    The same when you loose your house because you cant afford the private rent or you cant afford your mortgage!

    so this is good for society?


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    #76
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Wanderer78 wrote:
    what kind of psychological effects could this have on individuals and families?


    Somehow I don't think they have thought or care about the social issue of removing someone from their social surroundings. Friends neighbours, the people we look to as we get older.


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    #77
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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    #78
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #79
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Where are these properties? Very few one bed council properties. Plus you cannot tell someone who has honoured their tenancy time to get out now and move 20 miles away from a community they have been part of.

    Well then change the tenancy agreement or charge rent based on the property rather than the income to the property. If you want to stay in your community then that's okay but it will cost you to stay.


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    #80
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,428 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    yes i will agree, but we sometimes, in fact a lot of the time, somewhat ignore the complex social and psychological effects of such actions


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    #81
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,428 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The Student wrote: »
    Well then change the tenancy agreement or charge rent based on the property rather than the income to the property. If you want to stay in your community then that's okay but it will cost you to stay.

    what if you simple cannot afford to do so? it is a good idea we encourage the break up of communities?


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    #82
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    The council own the house and can rent to whom ever fits the rental criteria.
    Do you mourn the loss of the class system?

    We own the house

    Not the council

    They bought that house from our taxes

    They should buy less extravagant houses for people on social with our money


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    #83
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    The Student wrote: »
    Well then change the tenancy agreement or charge rent based on the property rather than the income to the property. If you want to stay in your community then that's okay but it will cost you to stay.

    But it does cost people to stay. Its called rent.


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    #84
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #85
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    so this is good for society?

    whats good for society is fairness to all. Not prioritizing one section of society over another. In my view the fairest way is to charge people based on a property and its location.

    Deal with anti social behavior and you have dealt with a significant part of the problem. I know houses the same size of my own house in council estates are going for half the price of mine simply because of where they are. They have the same public transport as I have and the houses are exactly the same size as mine.


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    #86
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    thierry14 wrote: »
    We own the house

    Not the council

    They bought that house from our taxes

    They should buy less extravagant houses for

    W people on social with our money

    What about all those first time buyers grants and mortgage interest relief co co tenants are subsidising through their taxes? Tax isn't a one way street which only those in private accomodation pay.


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    #87
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    But it does cost people to stay. Its called rent.

    Not if its only based on the income of the house. Base it on the property irrespective of the income of the property. This would be fairer. Why should a person in a three bed property pay less than a family for exactly the same property.


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    #88
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #89
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Well la di dah.

    Typical public servant reply


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    #90
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,428 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    i think its always important to try put yourself in these situations, moving home isn't necessarily black or white, but some would have you think it is.

    we must accept that this 'the market' thing is utter nonsense, neoclassical theory is a bust, period


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    #91
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    thierry14 wrote: »
    Typical public servant reply

    As opposed to the person who wants housing demarcated for certain classes.


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