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Dilemma with the bill

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24

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    #32
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Ginger83 wrote:
    Housing adaptation for person with a disability.


    Threat of Revenue is your only real option as far as I can see.


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    #33
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Housing adaptation for person with a disability.

    paid to you or to the builder?


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    #34
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    lawred2 wrote: »
    paid to you or to the builder?

    Paid to builder on our behalf.


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    #35
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Paid to builder on our behalf.

    that's mental - wonder was due diligence done on him?

    ask for the VAT back or else threaten him with the revenue..


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    #36
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    lawred2 wrote: »
    that's mental - wonder was due diligence done on him?

    ask for the VAT back or else threaten him with the revenue..

    All looked above board, co co even told us he does alot of grant work.


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    #37
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    All looked above board, co co even told us he does alot of grant work.

    do they know he considers them cash jobs?

    utterly bizarre


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    #38
    ironwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭ironwalk


    That's well dodgy and I'm surprised that any builder who does that type of work (where the Co Council are paying the grant out to him directly), I'm surprised that he would take the risk of cutting off that type of work.

    Have a chat with him and ask for his mature consideration as to whether or not this is really a cash job.


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    #39
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    lawred2 wrote:
    ask for the VAT back or else threaten him with the revenue..


    He can't give the vat back. That's illegal because its not his money. It belongs to the revenue /taxpayer. He needs to pay the vat & OP can offset it against their tax.

    Homeowners don't actually claim vat back as they are not vat registered. It's offset against their income tax. If you don't pay income tax then you don't get the vat back.

    OP you do know that you can't claim the vat for the part that the Co Co paid. Only the part that you paid yourself.


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    #40
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Paid to builder on our behalf.

    If it was paid to the builder directly from county council , he would of invoiced them not you so you wouldn't be able to claim the vat back .


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    #41
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I am a tradesman. The rules of the scheme are that you get it cleared in advance. This is revenues rules not mine.

    Think about it. Not all tradesmen are registered for vat or have a tax clearance certificate. This is why you need to have all of this discussed at the time of quotation. This is why it needs to be registered on revenue website before any work starts.


    What doesn't need to be agreed up front is that it is or isn't a black economy job. It is assumed to be legit.

    What's stopping the trader putting it up on the system now? The whole point of the system is to avoid the black economy and therefore self funding.


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    #42
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    OP, are you trying to claim back the VAT on home improvements, to be claimed back over 2 years on income tax (last time I looked). This was introduced a few years back.


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    #43
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    What's stopping the trader putting it up on the system now? The whole point of the system is to avoid the black economy and therefore self funding.

    The revenue rules are that he puts quote on the revenue website before work starts. I don't make the rules. I can just tell you what I have to do as a tradesman.


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    #44
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    OP, is the property tax of the property tax in your name?
    And as above, you can’t claim the VAT back outright, but you do get it as a tax credit, if the builder inputs the details on the revenue system before the job is carried out.


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    #45
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    OP, are you trying to claim back the VAT on home improvements, to be claimed back over 2 years on income tax (last time I looked). This was introduced a few years back.

    Vat61a form


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    #46
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    He can't give the vat back. That's illegal because its not his money. It belongs to the revenue /taxpayer. He needs to pay the vat & OP can offset it against their tax.

    Homeowners don't actually claim vat back as they are not vat registered. It's offset against their income tax. If you don't pay income tax then you don't get the vat back.

    OP you do know that you can't claim the vat for the part that the Co Co paid. Only the part that you paid yourself.

    Why is that?

    We got a quote of X + vat, paid it in full. What does it matter where funds came from.


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    #47
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The revenue rules are that he puts quote on the revenue website before work starts. I don't make the rules. I can just tell you what I have to do as a tradesman.

    Where does it say that? From my reading I don't see this precondition.


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    #48
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    Where does it say that? From my reading I don't see this precondition.


    It's on ROS online. It's in the instructions I have to follow when I fill in a clients details.


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    #49
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's on ROS online. It's in the instructions I have to follow when I fill in a clients details.

    What happens if builder has not done that?


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    #50
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    He can't give the vat back. That's illegal because its not his money. It belongs to the revenue /taxpayer. He needs to pay the vat & OP can offset it against their tax.

    Homeowners don't actually claim vat back as they are not vat registered. It's offset against their income tax. If you don't pay income tax then you don't get the vat back.

    OP you do know that you can't claim the vat for the part that the Co Co paid. Only the part that you paid yourself.

    Yeah everyone gets that but if the lad is trying to make off with VAT charged to the client (as per original quote) she is well entitled to ask for it back as he's not planning on handing it over to revenue.

    If the job is legit then yes it belongs to the government.

    But if you charge a client a VAT inclusive price and then refuse a VAT invoice claiming it to be a cash job, it's usually because you don't plan on handing it over to revenue.


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    #51
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Ginger83 wrote:
    We got a quote of X + vat, paid it in full. What does it matter where funds came from.


    You can only get tax credit on what you spend out of your own pocket. The grant part you didn't pay & you can't claim for.


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    #52
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Vat61a form

    Erm that's not a form that you would fill out.

    You've got your schemes mixed up by the looks of it. The relevant scheme is the HRI.


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    #53
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    Where does it say that? From my reading I don't see this precondition.


    Taken from ROS :

    Choosing a HRI contractorHow do I know my contractor is a ‘Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) qualifying’ contractor?

    A HRI qualifying contractor is one who is participating in the HRI scheme. This means the contractor is registered for registered for Value Added Tax (VAT) and be tax compliant. 

    You will know your contractor is a HRI qualifying contractor when you check HRI online and see the work details the contractor entered. Once you see the details on HRI online, you know the contractor qualifies.

    If the contractor is not a HRI qualifying contractor, they will not be able to enter the details to HRI online. It is important to check that the work details are on HRI online before work starts. If you don’t check and the Contractor is not a HRI qualifying Contractor you won’t be able to claim the HRI tax credit.

    What should I give to my contractor?

    Before any work begins, you should:

    tell the contractor that you will be applying for the HRI Tax Creditask the contractor to confirm that the they are a qualifying contractor under the schemeask the contractor to enter the details of the work through HRI onlinegive your contractor details of your Property ID (your Property ID is included on your Local Property Tax (LPT) letters from Revenue)tell the contractor if it is a rental property.What does my contractor have to do?

    The contractor must then enter the details of the work through HRI online. It is up to you to confirm that the contractor has done this before the work begins. They must also enter payment details as you make them. You will be unable to claim the HRI Tax Credit if the contractor does not do this.


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    #54
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's on ROS online. It's in the instructions I have to follow when I fill in a clients details.


    From what I see you enter the details of the quote into the system so you can tell the client that it has reached a certain level and may or may not be at a refundable level as it currently stands.

    I don't see where it precludes a retrospective addition post carrying out the work.


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    #55
    beechwood55
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭beechwood55


    We had work done last year - total spend including VAT was €5,468. Last week I gave the contractor our LPT no. 12 hours later it has been set up and I can see the details on myaccount on the Revenue website.
    Will be adding more work next month.


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    #56
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Ginger83 wrote:
    What happens if builder has not done that?

    Avatar MIA wrote:
    I don't see where it precludes a retrospective addition post carrying out the work.


    ROS website :
    If the contractor is not a HRI qualifying contractor, they will not be able to enter the details to HRI online. It is important to check that the work details are on HRI online before work starts. If you don’t check and the Contractor is not a HRI qualifying Contractor you won’t be able to claim the HRI tax credit.

    Clearly says details must be entered online by the builder before any work starts


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    #57
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Would not the council check for a tax clearance cert before paying someone, I know in my dealings with OPW it was needed and ergo would be some background check on tax being paid on it? So one would assume they are VAT registered but that is a lotta money to "hide under the carpet"


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    #58
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleeper12 wrote: »

    Clearly says details must be entered online by the builder before any work starts

    Mad, can you do a screen grab when you're next on that section and post here. Obviously redacting any identifying info.

    It seems strange that no mention offline ROS and Joe Public don't know that the contractor has to tell them to input online - which seems to have happened to the OP.


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    #59
    muckbrien
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭muckbrien


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    I expected a receipt for the payment. It was part grant payment / balance cash.

    Just make sure you can lawfully account your cash you gave him before reporting anything

    Revenue have a habit of auditing all sides in these matters


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    #60
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    Lads - just to clear one thing up.

    The OP is not claiming on the Home Renovation Incentive - they are attempting to claim back the VAT under an allowance for disabled people.


    OP:

    If the work was grant aided in full then I don't see how you would be allowed claim the VAT back - it would be the payee who could claim back the VAT.

    If the works were only partially grant aided then you can obviously go about claiming the VAT back on the portion you paid for.

    To try to claim VAT back on works that are grant aided would surely mean you are making a profit on the grant?


    Apologies if I have misunderstood anything here.


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    #61
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,091 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Mad, can you do a screen grab when you're next on that section and post here. Obviously redacting any identifying info.

    It seems strange that no mention offline ROS and Joe Public don't know that the contractor has to tell them to input online - which seems to have happened to the OP.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/home-renovation-incentive/hri-for-contractors/how-does-hri-work.aspxHow does HRI work?

    The Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) allows homeowners or landlords to claim a tax credit of 13.5% of the total cost of repairs, renovations and improvements to their property. They can only claim the HRI Tax Credit for specific types of work on specific types of property. To qualify, the work must also be done by a HRI qualifying contractor.
    Before you begin any work, you should:
    • Tell the homeowner or landlord about HRI.
    • Ask the homeowner or landlord for their Property ID. Their Property ID is included in any Local Property Tax (LPT) letters from Revenue.
    • Ask the homeowner or landlord if it is a rental property. If your work involves converting the property to rental units, ask how many rental units there will be when the work is finished.
    • Enter the details of the work through HRI online. You must enter the full estimated cost of the work, even if this is over €30,000 before Value Added Tax (VAT) is added, or if the homeowner or landlord is claiming a grant.
    • Tell the homeowner or landlord that you have entered the details and that they can check them through HRI online.
    The homeowner or landlord may be spending less than the minimum amount on the property to qualify for the HRI Tax Credit. You should still enter the details through HRI online, as they may have other work carried out at a later stage.
    After you begin the work, you should enter all payment details through HRI online as you receive them.


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/home-renovation-incentive/hri-for-homeowners-and-landlords/choosing-a-hri-contractor.aspx

    Choosing a HRI contractor

    How do I know my contractor is a ‘Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) qualifying’ contractor?

    A HRI qualifying contractor is one who is participating in the HRI scheme. This means the contractor is registered for registered for Value Added Tax (VAT) and be tax compliant.
    You will know your contractor is a HRI qualifying contractor when you check HRI online and see the work details the contractor entered. Once you see the details on HRI online, you know the contractor qualifies.
    If the contractor is not a HRI qualifying contractor, they will not be able to enter the details to HRI online. It is important to check that the work details are on HRI online before work starts. If you don’t check and the Contractor is not a HRI qualifying Contractor you won’t be able to claim the HRI tax credit.
    What should I give to my contractor?

    Before any work begins, you should:
    • tell the contractor that you will be applying for the HRI Tax Credit
    • ask the contractor to confirm that the they are a qualifying contractor under the scheme
    • ask the contractor to enter the details of the work through HRI online
    • give your contractor details of your Property ID (your Property ID is included on your Local Property Tax (LPT) letters from Revenue)
    • tell the contractor if it is a rental property.
    What does my contractor have to do?

    The contractor must then enter the details of the work through HRI online. It is up to you to confirm that the contractor has done this before the work begins. They must also enter payment details as you make them. You will be unable to claim the HRI Tax Credit if the contractor does not do this.


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