So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

macraignil

EnzoScifo wrote: »

The prevalence of one off housing in rural areas is a planning issue that should have been remedied years ago. It has a huge knock on effect to traffic in the city. AFAIK it is now much harder to build one off if you're not local these days, but the damage is done.

As far as I'm concerned if you made the choice to isolate yourself then the rest of society shouldn't have to bend over backwards for your own particular needs.

Do you seriously believe no one should be allowed live in rural areas?

Do you support the locals only planning restrictions in Irish law that according to RTE radio are due to be challenged in european court for being against the free movement of EU citizens legislation?

What damage done are you talking about? (I think the restriction on rural housing has exacerbated the housing shortage in this country and lead to a missed opportunity for better more distributed development which could involve park and ride facilities and more widespread public transport.)

Do you seriously believe society ends at the boundary between urban and rural areas and everyone outside of an urban area is some sort of isolationist fleeing from the rest of society?

I made no suggestion that anyone should "bend over backwards" and simply am trying to make the point that traffic management needs to take a number of different peoples situation into account and not just do everything for the average.

Cork Boy 53

macraignil wrote: »

Do you seriously believe no one should be allowed live in rural areas?

Do you support the locals only planning restrictions in Irish law that according to RTE radio are due to be challenged in european court for being against the free movement of EU citizens legislation?

What damage done are you talking about? (I think the restriction on rural housing has exacerbated the housing shortage in this country and lead to a missed opportunity for better more distributed development which could involve park and ride facilities and more widespread public transport.)

Do you seriously believe society ends at the boundary between urban and rural areas and everyone outside of an urban area is some sort of isolationist fleeing from the rest of society?

I made no suggestion that anyone should "bend over backwards" and simply am trying to make the point that traffic management needs to take a number of different peoples situation into account and not just do everything for the average.

So how was the commute this evening,assuming you were working today? As bad as you predicted with the school traffic etc?

namloc1980

Merchants Quay just after 6 was flowing very freely. No gridlock to be seen and plenty of pedestrians on Patrick Street too. And no rain either!!

macraignil

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

So how was the commute this evening,assuming you were working today? As bad as you predicted with the school traffic etc?

Got in early and out a bit early so guess I missed the worst of it. Looked like Shandon street was backed back badly this evening so changed lanes and headed down the quay to cross over the river at the Opera house which was better than usual so in the end made OK time. I hope I'm wrong about my school traffic prediction.

fin12

nostro wrote: »

Even though North Main Street. Car park which is mostly empty charges €25 per week and is five mins walk away.

I never knew there was a deal like that there. Pretty good. Thought the cheapest was 40 euro.

EnzoScifo

macraignil wrote: »

Do you seriously believe no one should be allowed live in rural areas?

Do you support the locals only planning restrictions in Irish law that according to RTE radio are due to be challenged in european court for being against the free movement of EU citizens legislation?

It's simply unsustainable. Not only does it affect urban areas, but it also destroys the communities and small businesses of smaller towns and villages in favour of private motor transport. Instead of walking to the locally owned grocery shop or even *gasp* parking outside it, people living outside the village will prefer to drive 20-50km to the local Lidl.

What damage done are you talking about? (I think the restriction on rural housing has exacerbated the housing shortage in this country and lead to a missed opportunity for better more distributed development which could involve park and ride facilities and more widespread public transport.)

widely distributed one off development would have no discernible impact on the housing crisis.

One house on a 1/2 acre plot vs medium/high density in urban areas and selected suburbs. Which one do you think will house more people and will create the density needed for reliable rapid transport?

Do you seriously believe society ends at the boundary between urban and rural areas and everyone outside of an urban area is some sort of isolationist fleeing from the rest of society?

No, but I believe small towns and villages need to be protected from the hollowing out effect of rural one off housing. Never mind the strain on local authority services such as utilities and roads to serve minute numbers of people living in isolation. County Cork has 12,000km of roads to look after. This includes little boreens off L & R roads that lead to one or two houses with 8 occupants max.

I made no suggestion that anyone should "bend over backwards" and simply am trying to make the point that traffic management needs to take a number of different peoples situation into account and not just do everything for the average.

Unfortunately, your moaning that you should be able to drive from your rural home to as close to the front door of your workplace as possible at the expense of thousands of public transport users in need of a reliable service is the very essence of wanting society to bend over backwards for your needs.

macraignil

EnzoScifo wrote: »

It's simply unsustainable. Not only does it affect urban areas, but it also destroys the communities and small businesses of smaller towns and villages in favour of private motor transport. Instead of walking to the locally owned grocery shop or even *gasp* parking outside it, people living outside the village will prefer to drive 20-50km to the local Lidl.

So you not only want to decide where people live but you also want to decide where they do their shopping (at some non existent locally owned grocery store that is within walking distance of everyone's house or what ever space they are allowed in your medium/high density area to allow for efficient public transport)?

widely distributed one off development would have no discernible impact on the housing crisis.

I don't agree and what evidence do you have that building houses would not help people have houses?

One house on a 1/2 acre plot vs medium/high density in urban areas and selected suburbs. Which one do you think will house more people and will create the density needed for reliable rapid transport?

Are you simply saying you should be the one to decide where everyone lives again?

No, but I believe small towns and villages need to be protected from the hollowing out effect of rural one off housing. Never mind the strain on local authority services such as utilities and roads to serve minute numbers of people living in isolation. County Cork has 12,000km of roads to look after. This includes little boreens off L & R roads that lead to one or two houses with 8 occupants max.

For most services in rural areas the home owner pays for the full cost of the service so there is no strain on anything that is properly organised. Increased rural development would create the density of population to make rural utilities more economical to run.
If you have one farmer living on a small road they still require their refuse collection, post delivery, etc. If you have a number of houses on the same road the economics for the service provider are much more achievable. Are you suggesting that by forcing everyone to live in concentrated urban areas the council can just forget about all the smaller roads?

Unfortunately, your moaning that you should be able to drive from your rural home to as close to the front door of your workplace as possible at the expense of thousands of public transport users in need of a reliable service is the very essence of wanting society to bend over backwards for your needs.

I never said in any post that I was against public transport and simply want to make the point that public transport does not cater for everyone and to expect every person to be able to travel by public transport is delusional. I repeat I am not asking for any bending over backwards but simply saying access to Cork city for non urban residents should be still permitted.

namloc1980

macraignil wrote: »

I never said in any post that I was against public transport and simply want to make the point that public transport does not cater for everyone and to expect every person to be able to travel by public transport is delusional. I repeat I am not asking for any bending over backwards but simply saying access to Cork city for non urban residents should be still permitted.

Access should be permitted? When did access to the city cease?

macraignil

EnzoScifo wrote: »

The prevalence of one off housing in rural areas is a planning issue that should have been remedied years ago. It has a huge knock on effect to traffic in the city. AFAIK it is now much harder to build one off if you're not local these days, but the damage is done.

.

According to Enzo no one should be allowed live outside of the city anyway so access to the city is impossible if no one is allowed live outside it????
One day the're dictating what street people can drive , next, its dictating what street you are allowed live on, then dictating what shop people need to do their shopping in....... Where does this nanny state ******** end?

grogi

macraignil wrote: »

According to Enzo no one should be allowed live outside of the city anyway so access to the city is impossible if no one is allowed live outside it????
One day the're dictating what street people can drive , next, its dictating what street you are allowed live on, then dictating what shop people need to do their shopping in....... Where does this nanny state ******** end?

Let's put it that way: if you are not going to commute to the heart of the city from the middle-of-nowhere, then fine. Unfortunately the vast majority will keep commuting: complaining, causing motoring havoc and emitting tons of pollutants in the process.

the beer revolu

macraignil wrote: »

According to Enzo no one should be allowed live outside of the city anyway so access to the city is impossible if no one is allowed live outside it????
One day the're dictating what street people can drive , next, its dictating what street you are allowed live on, then dictating what shop people need to do their shopping in....... Where does this nanny state ******** end?

It's called planning.
You know the way one isn't allowed to just build wherever they like. That's planning.

Unfortunately planning has not been very smart, in general, in this country.

cgcsb

macraignil wrote: »

Do you seriously believe no one should be allowed live in rural areas?

Do you support the locals only planning restrictions in Irish law that according to RTE radio are due to be challenged in european court for being against the free movement of EU citizens legislation?

What damage done are you talking about? (I think the restriction on rural housing has exacerbated the housing shortage in this country and lead to a missed opportunity for better more distributed development which could involve park and ride facilities and more widespread public transport.)

Do you seriously believe society ends at the boundary between urban and rural areas and everyone outside of an urban area is some sort of isolationist fleeing from the rest of society?

I made no suggestion that anyone should "bend over backwards" and simply am trying to make the point that traffic management needs to take a number of different peoples situation into account and not just do everything for the average.

Germany, with one of the world's most evenly spread populations, best public transport and indeed one of the most densely populated European countries operates a total ban on rural development more than 1km outside of villages with few exceptions for farm houses and small dwellings for those working in forestry. That's the way forward.

grogi

cgcsb wrote: »

Germany, with one of the world's most evenly spread populations, best public transport and indeed one of the most densely populated European countries operates a total ban on rural development more than 1km outside of villages with few exceptions for farm houses and small dwellings for those working in forestry. That's the way forward.

The Germans will not tell us how to run our successful country! /s

cgcsb

macraignil wrote: »

According to Enzo no one should be allowed live outside of the city anyway so access to the city is impossible if no one is allowed live outside it????
One day the're dictating what street people can drive , next, its dictating what street you are allowed live on, then dictating what shop people need to do their shopping in....... Where does this nanny state ******** end?

it's called town planning, every developed nation does it. Would you prefer the Eritrean model of development?

FrStone

cgcsb wrote: »

macraignil wrote: »

According to Enzo no one should be allowed live outside of the city anyway so access to the city is impossible if no one is allowed live outside it????
One day the're dictating what street people can drive , next, its dictating what street you are allowed live on, then dictating what shop people need to do their shopping in....... Where does this nanny state ******** end?

it's called town planning, every developed nation does it. Would you prefer the Eritrean model of development?

I'd prefer the US model where people aren't penalised for owning and using a car. Sure what happens if you live in the village of Grenagh and work in Rinagaskiddy - you need a car.

namloc1980

FrStone wrote: »

I'd prefer the US model where people aren't penalised for owning and using a car. Sure what happens if you live in the village of Grenagh and work in Rinagaskiddy - you need a car.

What penalties are there for owning a car and driving in Ireland?

macraignil

FrStone wrote: »

I'd prefer the US model where people aren't penalised for owning and using a car. Sure what happens if you live in the village of Grenagh and work in Rinagaskiddy - you need a car.

The US would be a country that actually values freedom and liberty for the individual as part of the foundation of the state. Not sure that would suit many of the posters here who would rather we conform to the German model of strict containment of the population and universal conformity to using public transport or a bicycle.

Grenagh to Ringaskiddy sounds like a reasonable journey in a car and I think the government should do more to address the spiraling cost of motoring here. The motor insurance industry has completely lost any respect for customers and some sort of state third party insurance should be established to bring them back in line. Having never made an insurance claim my premium has gone up 100% over the last few years and heard someone on the radio today who got a renewal quote of 19,000 euro.

The girlfriend was living in rural Australia for a while and some of her friends there thought nothing of driving a few hours each way to go to their favorite chipper. Much nicer country than Germany from what I've heard.

cgcsb

FrStone wrote: »

I'd prefer the US model where people aren't penalised for owning and using a car. Sure what happens if you live in the village of Grenagh and work in Rinagaskiddy - you need a car.

Ah yes the US model, endless sprawls of suburbs and heartless cities. It ain't going to happen fortunately.

cgcsb

macraignil wrote: »

The US would be a country that actually values freedom and liberty for the individual as part of the foundation of the state. Not sure that would suit many of the posters here who would rather we conform to the German model of strict containment of the population and universal conformity to using public transport or a bicycle.

Grenagh to Ringaskiddy sounds like a reasonable journey in a car and I think the government should do more to address the spiraling cost of motoring here. The motor insurance industry has completely lost any respect for customers and some sort of state third party insurance should be established to bring them back in line. Having never made an insurance claim my premium has gone up 100% over the last few years and heard someone on the radio today who got a renewal quote of 19,000 euro.

The girlfriend was living in rural Australia for a while and some of her friends there thought nothing of driving a few hours each way to go to their favorite chipper. Much nicer country than Germany from what I've heard.

The new world would probably suit you better. Bland sterile suburbia that goes on forever. In Europe we have historic livable cities that most people don't want choked with traffic.

Richmond Ultra

Anybody have an idea when north mall is back open as it is a pain having to go down the small side streets to reach Victoria Cross instead of going Sundays Well.

the beer revolu

I drove that way from Shandon Street this evening to Wilton.

macraignil

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

Anybody have an idea when north mall is back open as it is a pain having to go down the small side streets to reach Victoria Cross instead of going Sundays Well.

An email was circulated in work last week saying that the city council were just repairing a collapsed culvert and it would be open again by now. Have not checked myself but wouldn't have expected it to be closed for long from what they were saying. They did mention it will be closed again for more work down the line but we would get notification.

macraignil

cgcsb wrote: »

The new world would probably suit you better. Bland sterile suburbia that goes on forever. In Europe we have historic livable cities that most people don't want choked with traffic.

I would be one of those who would like the city I live near not to be choked with traffic. That's one of the reasons I have serious doubts about the Cork traffic management changes that are closing off routes while alternatives are not being improved.

I seriously don't know how you put me down as someone suited to bland suburbia. I realise your basing your comment on very little knowledge so here is a link to some videos of my garden in case that helps you decide where I should live.

grogi

macraignil wrote: »

I would be one of those who would like the city I live near not to be choked with traffic. That's one of the reasons I have serious doubts about the Cork traffic management changes that are closing off routes while alternatives are not being improved.

I seriously don't know how you put me down as someone suited to bland suburbia. I realise your basing your comment on very little knowledge so here is a link to some videos of my garden in case that helps you decide where I should live.

My garden and my freedom for an automobile.... More and more land... For me...

skeleton_boy

macraignil wrote: »

The US would be a country that actually values freedom and liberty for the individual as part of the foundation of the state. Not sure that would suit many of the posters here who would rather we conform to the German model of strict containment of the population and universal conformity to using public transport or a bicycle.

Grenagh to Ringaskiddy sounds like a reasonable journey in a car and I think the government should do more to address the spiraling cost of motoring here. The motor insurance industry has completely lost any respect for customers and some sort of state third party insurance should be established to bring them back in line. Having never made an insurance claim my premium has gone up 100% over the last few years and heard someone on the radio today who got a renewal quote of 19,000 euro.

The girlfriend was living in rural Australia for a while and some of her friends there thought nothing of driving a few hours each way to go to their favorite chipper. Much nicer country than Germany from what I've heard.

This post made me chuckle.

Paragraph 1 - The state should not be intervening in how the individual lives their life
Paragraph 2 - The state should interfere with the motor insurance market :pac:

grogi

One more thing to add here... Braess's paradox

j8wk2feszrnpao

skeleton_boy wrote: »

Paragraph 2 - The state should interfere with the motor insurance market :pac:

You don't think the state should ensure the consumer/public aren't being screwed over by the insurance industry?

cgcsb

macraignil wrote: »

I would be one of those who would like the city I live near not to be choked with traffic. That's one of the reasons I have serious doubts about the Cork traffic management changes that are closing off routes while alternatives are not being improved.

Alternatives have been improved, Cork City Bus services are now operating much smoother by all accounts.

cgcsb

skeleton_boy wrote: »

This post made me chuckle.

Paragraph 1 - The state should not be intervening in how the individual lives their life
Paragraph 2 - The state should interfere with the motor insurance market :pac:

Gas isn't it. They probably want the state to build excessive amounts of road capacity as well, all in the name of individual freedom.

opus

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

Anybody have an idea when north mall is back open as it is a pain having to go down the small side streets to reach Victoria Cross instead of going Sundays Well.

It's been back for the last two days as I'm always cycling down/up Shandon St. From what I saw, some people weren't going to let a road closed outbound sign stop them & just drove round it!