So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

nostro

Councillors have voted to bring private cars back to Patrick Street.

Oafley Jones

TheChizler wrote: »

In Ireland it is. The Butler brothers run most if not all if it.

Ddin't know that. I'd imagine it'd be all of them so. They're not going to do a Subway and have open competition between their own outlets.

namloc1980

Suspended until August 9th. Waiting until the summer is almost over to possibly reintroduce it will give plenty of ammunition for the traders to kill it off completely.

nostro

There will be no reintroduction. Its over.

Nahthanks

Cork City Council has voted unanimously by 28-0 to lift the ban on private traffic on Patrick Street for three months.

Most importantly we now have precedent and an accepted narrative that anti car measures damage the city centre. This will cast a shadow into all future anti private car changes which is what opposition to this move was really about. Really serious own goal by the people pushing these measures.

nostro

Nahthanks wrote: »

Most importantly we now have precedent and an accepted narrative that anti car measures damage the city centre. This will cast a shadow into all future anti private car changes which is what opposition to this move was really about. Really serious own goal by the people pushing these measures.

Agree. It is now become accepted that private cars are necessary to keep the city centre vibrant. A terrible decision by spineless hypocritical councillors, many of whom spoke in favour of less cars driving through the city till the wind changed.

mean gene

Im happy with this-get rid of the bikes next .No need for them either running at a loss which we are all paying for.I need somewhere to park when Im strolling down pana .

Cork Boy 53

It will be interesting to hear and read what comments the traders make after next Monday when the Patrick St ban is lifted. Will there be huge increases in trading from then? I have my doubts.

mean gene

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear and read what comments the traders make after next Monday when the Patrick St ban is lifted. Will there be huge increases in trading from then? I have my doubts.

Massive rise in people going in town again id say ghost town finished bravo

Harika

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear and read what comments the traders make after next Monday when the Patrick St ban is lifted. Will there be huge increases in trading from then? I have my doubts.

The weather kicked in, loads of people were using it today to stroll through the city and same will happen tomorrow. Traders will say I told you so, and blame the ban.

namloc1980

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear and read what comments the traders make after next Monday when the Patrick St ban is lifted. Will there be huge increases in trading from then? I have my doubts.

Whether there is or not they'll no doubt come out and say footfall is up 50% or something like - with no evidence of course like the 40% decline they said happened for the last 3 weeks. People will rejoice at being able to pick up their mid-afternoon Chinese takeaway from Patrick Street.

Pauliedragon

What happens after the 3 months?

Gamb!t

They need to stop the buses cutting through traffic in the city center ie bishopstown to mayfield,ballyvolane to douglas is never going to work.
Why not have another bus depo set up that runs the southside ?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mother in law was in town on Fri at ~1pm, and was amazed at how quiet the English Market was (she would typically frequent the place).

I’m all for stats on footfall and the difference in terms of how well/poorly trade was doing. But some people seem to think it’s ok bash others without stats and then rave about “the buzz” in town without anything to back it up. You can’t have it both ways.

Douglas Eegit

Of course trade will be up. People are getting paid next week.
The last 3 weeks are generally going to be a quiet period with effectively 2 bank holiday weekend quickly after each other so people are spent. With pay slips coming in over the next week confidence will be slowly back.

the beer revolu

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

Of course trade will be up. People are getting paid next week.
The last 3 weeks are generally going to be a quiet period with effectively 2 bank holiday weekend quickly after each other so people are spent. With pay slips coming in over the next week confidence will be slowly back.

Not to mention the weather getting warmer.

jackrussel

Apple have delayed the move to their new campus in holyhill from lavitts quay until June, was meant to be in May.

One thing I did notice during the car ban was that cars weren’t using pat street during the morning, 8am. It was almost as if it was after 3pm except with less people.

Flesh Gorden

Gamb!t wrote: »

They need to stop the buses cutting through traffic in the city center ie bishopstown to mayfield,ballyvolane to douglas is never going to work.
Why not have another bus depo set up that runs the southside ?

Ah now, that would make sense, can't be having any of that.

Next people will be asking for single fare bus tickets that can be validated for up to 90mins, for anyone connecting to another bus, or just popping in to the city for something quick.

Mardyke

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

the beer revolu

Mardyke wrote: »

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

Le Chateau, too.

Funny that they are all businesses that I have never wanted to frequent anyway for no particular reason (apart from Idaho - very particular reason there). I just never liked any of them.

skeleton_boy

Traders on Patrick's Street today

Nahthanks

Mardyke wrote: »

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

The 200 members of the CBA?

11214

Mardyke wrote: »

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

Why are we avoiding them? Is it because they wanted rid of the car ban or was there something else?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Ah now, that would make sense, can't be having any of that.

Next people will be asking for single fare bus tickets that can be validated for up to 90mins, for anyone connecting to another bus, or just popping in to the city for something quick.

This would be brilliant. And eliminate cash fares completely, Leap card only. Will speed up time spent at bus stops and people messing around with change. No driver interaction, touch-on points at the front door.

fin12

Mardyke wrote: »

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

So this is a thread about a car ban on Patrick Street yet you have now turned around and started telling people to boycott certain businesses because they were against the car ban. How sad. Have you any other valid reasons for wanting theses businesses to be boycotted?

EnzoScifo

fin12 wrote: »

So this is a thread about a car ban on Patrick Street yet you have now turned around and started telling people to boycott certain businesses because they were against the car ban. How sad. Have you any other valid reasons for wanting theses businesses to be boycotted?

Well GQ treat their employees like absolute sh*t as well as being reactionary gombeens, so that's valid enough in my book.

namloc1980

Read in the Examiner that no trader on Patrick Street made a submission during the consultation period for this change. None. That's ridiculous. When there was a period of consultation they didn't bother engaging, but when the change came in they decided to only then start moaning and complaining.

Frostybrew

Nahthanks wrote: »

Most importantly we now have precedent and an accepted narrative that anti car measures damage the city centre. This will cast a shadow into all future anti private car changes which is what opposition to this move was really about. Really serious own goal by the people pushing these measures.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Read in the Examiner that no trader on Patrick Street made a submission during the consultation period for this change. None. That's ridiculous. When there was a period of consultation they didn't bother engaging, but when the change came in they decided to only then start moaning and complaining.

Not surprised. According to Nahthanks above, this was really about making sure car use isn't restricted. There were no verifiable statistics from the traders. Only soundbites and hyperbole. You'd wonder what the real agenda was behind all the negative publicity.

I can see many of the Naysayer's business folding in the coming years. Their mindset is stuck in the 1950s. Hopefully a younger generation with an entrepreneurial spirit can take their place, and come up with unique forward looking business that can make a real contribution to Cork City Centre.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Mardyke wrote: »

What other businesses do we avoid now?

Idaho
Gentleman's Quarters
Pat O'Connell
Tung Sing

We?
You, and others, are free to avoid what you like.
Myself, and others, are free to do as we wish.

fin12

Frostybrew wrote: »

Not surprised. According to Nahthanks above, this was really about making sure car use isn't restricted. There were no verifiable statistics from the traders. Only soundbites and hyperbole. You'd wonder what the real agenda was behind all the negative publicity.

I can see many of the Naysayer's business folding in the coming years. Their mindset is stuck in the 1950s. Hopefully a younger generation with an entrepreneurial spirit can take their place, and come up with unique forward looking business that can make a real contribution to Cork City Centre.

Sorry if the city council backed down and removed the car ban there must ha e been hard facts behind the traders concerns, they wouldn’t just overturn because of them just complaining. They obviously came to the conclusion that it wasn’t working themselves.

TheChizler

Gamb!t wrote: »

They need to stop the buses cutting through traffic in the city center ie bishopstown to mayfield,ballyvolane to douglas is never going to work.
Why not have another bus depo set up that runs the southside ?

In that case they're going to have a terminus in the city anyway so what difference would that make? Unless you're suggesting busses shouldn't come into the city centre?

Nahthanks

The completely clogged Washington St. to Sheares St. I encountered 2 Saturdays ago wasn't to be seen today. Immediate great result. The city is open for business and its people

EnzoScifo

fin12 wrote: »

Sorry if the city council backed down and removed the car ban there must ha e been hard facts behind the traders concerns, they wouldn’t just overturn because of them just complaining. They obviously came to the conclusion that it wasn’t working themselves.

The council wanted to keep it, it was the councillors who felt the pressure from the rent a gobs in the CBA and overturned it.

Frostybrew

fin12 wrote: »

Sorry if the city council backed down and removed the car ban there must ha e been hard facts behind the traders concerns, they wouldn’t just overturn because of them just complaining. They obviously came to the conclusion that it wasn’t working themselves.

Zero hard facts. Councillors afraid of losing votes. Bullied into it by the media and the CBA.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Frostybrew wrote: »

Zero hard facts. Councillors afraid of losing votes. Bullied into it by the media and the CBA.

Have you got the hard facts to back that up?
Those are serious allegations.

Gamb!t

TheChizler wrote: »

In that case they're going to have a terminus in the city anyway so what difference would that make? Unless you're suggesting busses shouldn't come into the city centre?

Well not through the City.Say for example the 207 bus from Ballyvolane or (208) mayfield could go to the current bus station and swing back around up summer hill rather than having to cut through traffic in town and then douglas/bishopstown respectively.

The same could be applied to other routes in the city if another bus station was set up,say near capwell.

EnzoScifo

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Have you got the hard facts to back that up?
Those are serious allegations.

It's true though. 3 weeks into a 3 month pilot scheme wont give you enough data to make a decision either way. They were threatened with a rates strike and backed down out of fear.

Wonder how the traders would deal with their own employees doing something similar? :rolleyes:

Spanish Eyes

Cork was always about the merchant princes anyway.

nostro

Frostybrew wrote: »

Zero hard facts. Councillors afraid of losing votes. Bullied into it by the media and the CBA.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Have you got the hard facts to back that up?
Those are serious allegations.

Not one single councillor dared to defy the CBA. Even those like Fiona Ryan of Solidarity and Ted Tynan who said they were in favour of the car ban still voted against it.


.

j8wk2feszrnpao

EnzoScifo wrote: »

It's true though.

Bullied? Media conspiracy type stuff?

The traders certainly applied pressure, but they say they were feeling the pinch, worried about their business, their livelihoods, jobs, etc....
Perhaps they could say they were being bullied?

As I said previously, I was for the trial. But it wasn’t my business or job on the line. Easy to accuse from the sideline.

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Bullied? Media conspiracy type stuff?

The traders certainly applied pressure, but they say they were feeling the pinch, worried about their business, their livelihoods, jobs, etc....
Perhaps they could say they were being bullied?

As I said previously, I was for the trial. But it wasn’t my business or job on the line. Easy to accuse from the sideline.

As reported in the Examiner not a single trader made a submission during the consultation period for this. None. Seems they had no opinion on this measure until 3 weeks ago. Did not a single one of them consider it might have any impact whatsoever when it was being planned and the consultation was ongoing? I'd have more respect for them if they had engaged in the consultation process but they didn't bother.

fin12

Frostybrew wrote: »

Zero hard facts. Councillors afraid of losing votes. Bullied into it by the media and the CBA.

So why is the city boundaries going forward despite opposition?

fin12

EnzoScifo wrote: »

The council wanted to keep it, it was the councillors who felt the pressure from the rent a gobs in the CBA and overturned it.

Were you at the meetings? How do you know this?

j8wk2feszrnpao

namloc1980 wrote: »

As reported in the Examiner not a single trader made a submission during the consultation period for this. None. Seems they had no opinion on this measure until 3 weeks ago. Did not a single one of them consider it might have any impact whatsoever when it was being planned and the consultation was ongoing? I'd have more respect for them if they had engaged in the consultation process but they didn't bother.

Maybe they felt it would have no impact, very little impact, or a benefit? Maybe it took the ban before they began to feel the squeeze? Maybe they spoke informally to Councillors, got reassurances, but it didn't pan out?
I don't know.

I just don't have an issue with a group making a movement towards something they want if they feel it impacts them. If you, or others for the idea of more pedestrianization, wish to organise like the traders have done; then go for it.
If the numbers are significant enough, then maybe it could be re-implemented. Set it during the Summer period; no school traffic, some Summer festivals on the street, better weather for people to go into the city......

EnzoScifo

fin12 wrote: »

Were you at the meetings? How do you know this?

The director of transport in the council gave a lengthy report defending the trial and pleaded for it to be kept at the meeting. As reported by the press.

EnzoScifo

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I just don't have an issue with a group making a movement towards something they want if they feel it impacts them.

That's funny... you don't say the same thing when workers go on strike :rolleyes:

namloc1980

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Maybe they felt it would have no impact, very little impact, or a benefit? Maybe it took the ban before they began to feel the squeeze? Maybe they spoke informally to Councillors, got reassurances, but it didn't pan out?
I don't know.

Cynic in me says that they played this well for their own gain. Minimal engagement pre implementation but then immediately start moaning on Day 1 once it came into place. Demand concessions on parking and once in place push for it to be scrapped altogether. Net result is what should have been a public transport priority measure has actually turned into the status quo with MORE car prioritisation measures in the reduced cost of parking at NMS and Paul Street.

macraignil

namloc1980 wrote: »

Cynic in me says that they played this well for their own gain. Minimal engagement pre implementation but then immediately start moaning on Day 1 once it came into place. Demand concessions on parking and once in place push for it to be scrapped altogether. Net result is what should have been a public transport priority measure has actually turned into the status quo with MORE car prioritisation measures in the reduced cost of parking at NMS and Paul Street.

I guess when it's your livelihood at stake the way to play the situation is the one that's most likely to get a result that suits your business. I don't think closing Patrick street to cars would be such a public transport priority if the bus routes were rationalised to go in and out of the city centre rather than most of them going across from one side of the city to the other.

Johnny86

What i find to be a load of nonsense is the headline of 50% of trade down - the english market for example is closed by 6pm with most places closed by 5 or 5.30pm....so in the hours of 3pm to 5/5.30pm they claim 50% of their trade is and thats gone to zero? Nonsense - Google provides some information on the 'popular times' of locations and it shows clearly that the majority of business is done in the hours before 3pm.

Indeed..... the likes of Penneys, debenhsms, lifestyle etc weren't complaining as it had sfa effect on the till ..... the smallminded aspiring cute hoors moaned about it and ended up with discounted parking in the city.

We'd be as well off with 200 Starbucks at times :pac: