So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

Frostybrew

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's quite typical of the anti car brigade - many of them are nasty, spiteful little people who simply cannot stomach anyone who dares to have a differing viewpoint from their own. This thread is littered with examples. The irony is that they and their ilk do huge harm to their own cause but lack the self awareness to see this.

With regards to this post, I think the saying "people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones" comes to mind.

Gaspode

OK folks, this is just sniping and personal attacks at this stage. Get back on topic and try to have a discussion not a battle

Dbu

Just found his/her way to the ignore list;)

the beer revolu

I'm starting an anti brigade brigade!!

THERE ARE NO FCUKING BRIGADES!!!!!!!!

It's a stupid, lazy, divisive term used by stupid, lazy divisive people making stupid, lazy divisive arguments.

hans aus dtschl

Fire brigade, no?

For the record, in case anyone thinks I'm part of an anti car brigade for supporting the Pana Ban: I drive most days of the week. I'm not anti-car at all.
I do think it's an inefficient mode of transport for urban areas though. And that we probably ought to stop lugging a couch and two armchairs around town with us, when we're going shopping.

I have the luxury of being able-bodied and can afford tax, insurance, vehicle maintenance costs etc. But some people can't (old, young, people with mobility or vision impairments etc).
People like me really shouldn't be driving around everywhere, but we're definitely the majority of lazy single-occupant <10km commuters.

Weltsmertz

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's quite typical of the anti car brigade - many of them are nasty, spiteful little people who simply cannot stomach anyone who dares to have a differing viewpoint from their own. This thread is littered with examples. The irony is that they and their ilk do huge harm to their own cause but lack the self awareness to see this.

A proud member of the anti car pro Panaban brigade. I e. the losing side.

Weltsmertz

the beer revolu wrote: »

THERE ARE NO FCUKING BRIGADES!!!!!!!!

Well. There are those in favour of the Panaban aks the Pro Panaban Brigade and those opposed to the Panaban that believe that city centers are for cars aka the anti Panaban Brigade.

the beer revolu

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Well. There are those in favour of the Panaban aks the Pro Panaban Brigade and those opposed to the Panaban that believe that city centers are for cars aka the anti Panaban Brigade.

Dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you as being part of a "brigade" is no argument. It dismisses and attempts to belittle the person before ever listening to their argument. It is divisive, disrespectful, stupid and unhelpful. It's up there with libtard, feminazi etc. ect. It's attacking the person rather than their argument.

I am all for the Pana ban. I am not anti car - I have a car. I am and no one else is part of a brigade apart from firemen and soldiers.

Weltsmertz

the beer revolu wrote: »

Dismissing anyone who doesn't agree with you as being part of a "brigade" is no argument. It dismisses and attempts to belittle the person before ever listening to their argument. It is divisive, disrespectful, stupid and unhelpful. It's up there with libtard, feminazi etc. ect. It's attacking the person rather than their argument.

I disagree. It's attacking the argument more than the person. The dictionary definition of a brigade is " a group of people who have something in common, especially an enthusiasm for a particular belief or subject"
So referring to those that are opposed to any restricted access for private cars to Patrick Street as the "anti Panaban Brigade" is appropriate. Similarly those in favour of restrictionscan be referred to as the "Panaban Brigade"

TheChizler

Even if a term is technically correct it's not necessarily useful. Clearly it gets peoples' backs up which isn't condusive towards productive discussion.

the beer revolu

TheChizler wrote: »

Even if a term is technically correct it's not necessarily useful. Clearly it gets peoples' backs up which isn't condusive towards productive discussion.

This.
It is designed to belittle, dismiss and annoy and is never useful in any way.

I will now stop my stupidly off topic rant.

Weltsmertz

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's quite typical of the anti car brigade - many of them are nasty, spiteful little people who simply cannot stomach anyone who dares to have a differing viewpoint from their own. This thread is littered with examples. The irony is that they and their ilk do huge harm to their own cause but lack the self awareness to see this.

You should probably correct this post and refer to the " pro Panaban Brigade" rather than the " anti car brigade" As others have pointed out being opposed to unrestricted access for cars to city centers and not agreeing with cars being allowed to drive through pedestrianised streets and park on pedestrianised plazas does not necessarily make someone a member of the "anti car brigade"

beer enigma

Figures just published show footfall has increased by only 2% in the last year, although I suppose its not really representative while drivers are still flouting it.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/City-Hall-reveal-the-impact-of-the-car-ban-on-Patricks-Street-footfall-figures--cd2785a8-d23a-4242-9937-f012bf8d016e-ds

beer enigma

Gardai booking loads on Patrick Street this afternoon. Out in force

Cork Boy 53

beer enigma wrote: »

Gardai booking loads on Patrick Street this afternoon. Out in force

Good to know that.:)

beer enigma

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Good to know that.:)

They were top and bottom of the street and at the mid junction. I personally saw 5 cars plus a taxi (no idea why) stopped but big presence.

Weltsmertz

beer enigma wrote: »

They were top and bottom of the street and at the mid junction. I personally saw 5 cars plus a taxi (no idea why) stopped but big presence.

No fines issued so kinda pointless and is no deterrent. Cars driving down Patrick without hinderance at 5:00pm.

TheChizler

Weltsmertz wrote: »

No fines issued so kinda pointless and is no deterrent.

How can you tell that from what was posted?

beer enigma

TheChizler wrote: »

How can you tell that from what was posted?

Fines were indeed issued as my neighbour got one (and serves him right).

In all of the instances I saw the Gardai were doing paperwork so unless they were drawing Christmas pictures I'd say all the offenders got tickets...

ofcork

Quiet in there today got a space on Patrick st at 1.50 no bother.

beer enigma

ofcork wrote: »

Quiet in there today got a space on Patrick st at 1.50 no bother.

Hopefully the same tomorrow as I'm heading in to pick up stuff in the market

Weltsmertz

Patrick Street jammed with private cars during Panaban today. Cars backed up all down Academy Street waiting to drive onto Pana. Buses caught up in the gridlock.
Plenty of gardai standing by observing but taking no action. See attached pic.

By the way the official figures released by the Gardai show that they are issuing approx one fine per week.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

A complete sh1tshow today. Some Gardai around but most vehicles just being waved on.

Weltsmertz

I think the high Garda presence actually makes it worse. They are very deliberately and publicity refusing to take any action against the cars that are illegally breaking the ban. It makes it obvious that there are no consequences for ignoring the Panaban and indeed that it is something that they are tacitly supporting.

* Official Garda figures show that 66 fines were issued in thirteen months.
Hundreds of motorists drove through Patrick Street during the Panaban today alone as gardai stood by and observed.

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

I think the high Garda presence actually makes it worse. They are very deliberately and publicity refusing to take any action against the cars that are illegally breaking the ban. It makes it obvious that there are no consequences for ignoring the Panaban and indeed that it is something that they are tacitly supporting.

* Official Garda figures show that 66 fines were issued in thirteen months.
Hundreds of motorists drove through Patrick Street during the Panaban today alone as gardai stood by and observed.

I must be a jonah as I saw three cars stopped on Grand Parade but didn't seem to be as strict as previous day.

Weltsmertz

Inspector Hallahan says the Gardaí use their discretion when deciding whether to move cars from cycle lanes.

"We can use our discretion, we don't always have to issue tickets."

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Inspector Hallahan says the Gardaí use their discretion when deciding whether to move cars from cycle lanes.

"We can use our discretion, we don't always have to issue tickets."

That's cycle lanes though

Weltsmertz

beer enigma wrote: »

That's cycle lanes though

Same principle. The Inspector is publicly saying that the Gardai have the discretion to decide whether or not they enforce the law. In the case of the Panaban as well as parking in cycle lanes the Gardai are using their "discretion" in order to take no action.

ofcork

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

A complete sh1tshow today. Some Gardai around but most vehicles just being waved on.

I was around there from 4 and the guards by daunt square were stopping cars from going up Patrick Street all being sent down cornmarket street.

Weltsmertz

ofcork wrote: »

I was around there from 4 and the guards by daunt square were stopping cars from going up Patrick Street all being sent down cornmarket street.

So the cars that had illegally used the Washington Street bus lane were being directed through the pedestrian priority zone. And how many of those cars drove through the pedestrians on Paul Street and back on to Patrick Street. That actually kinda pointless.
It demonstrates to those drivers that there are no consequences. The Gardai have been talking about using their discretion to turn up very occasionally and "educate" rather than penalize drivers for a year and a half now. It is clearly counter productive and a complete failure as Patrick Street is full of cars illegally breaking the Panaban every day.

How many European cities have their city centers jammed with cars the way we do at this time of year.

ofcork

Well they were coming from grand parade as well but I agree with you no cars should be sent that way should be out Washington Street.

sheff_

ofcork wrote: »

I was around there from 4 and the guards by daunt square were stopping cars from going up Patrick Street all being sent down cornmarket street.

Once it backed up as far as the queens old castle they were allowing private cars down Pana again. Traffic flow rather than applying the law seemed to be the priority.

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Same principle. The Inspector is publicly saying that the Gardai have the discretion to decide whether or not they enforce the law. In the case of the Panaban as well as parking in cycle lanes the Gardai are using their "discretion" in order to take no action.

God forbid when the Gardai cannot use discretion, resources are short. Let's not forget it was the council that brought in the ban, the Guards have diverted resources as a result but why are the council parking wardens not been deployed.

Weltsmertz

beer enigma wrote: »

God forbid when the Gardai cannot use discretion, resources are short. Let's not forget it was the council that brought in the ban, the Guards have diverted resources as a result but why are the council parking wardens not been deployed.

Resources are not short. Patrick Street today was full of Gardai using their discretion to not enforce the law.
Indeed the exact opposite. They were directing cars through Patrick Street during the ban. Facilitating and encouraging illegal activity.
Council traffic wardens are confined to checking tax discs on legally parked cars on the South Mall.
They could easily restrict access from the feeder streets during the ban e.g. Academy Street, Peter and Paul Street etc but they have refused to do so.

ofcork

Traffic wardens were on Patrick Street today around 5 as well.

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Resources are not short. Patrick Street today was full of Gardai using their discretion to not enforce the law.
Indeed the exact opposite. They were directing cars through Patrick Street during the ban. Facilitating and encouraging illegal activity.
Council traffic wardens are confined to checking tax discs on legally parked cars on the South Mall.
They could easily restrict access from the feeder streets during the ban e.g. Academy Street, Peter and Paul Street etc but they have refused to do so.

Gardai resources are very short

Great to see them on Patrick Street but they have other duties this time of year as well

The Pana ban is a bye law right? Therefore no funding to Gardai to enforce

the beer revolu

beer enigma wrote: »

Gardai resources are very short

Great to see them on Patrick Street but they have other duties this time of year as well

The Pana ban is a bye law right? Therefore no funding to Gardai to enforce

I've made this point before but one solitary Garda could enforce the ban effectively.
They'd just need to be at the Academy Street junction.
Any car coming from any direction is ticketed and sent back the way they came.

Weltsmertz

the beer revolu wrote: »

I've made this point before but one solitary Garda could enforce the ban effectively.
They'd just need to be at the Academy Street junction.
Any car coming from any direction is ticketed and sent back the way they came.

This has absolutely nothing to do with resources. That is a red herring. A time activated barrier would block the streams of cars from driving onto Patrick Street via Academy Street during ban hours. Patrick Street had plenty of guards yesterday. Deliberately and obviously ignoring the law breaking. It's a question of policy.

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

This has absolutely nothing to do with resources. That is a red herring. A time activated barrier would block the streams of cars from driving onto Patrick Street via Academy Street during ban hours. Patrick Street had plenty of guards yesterday. Deliberately and obviously ignoring the law breaking. It's a question of policy.

The cost of putting in a time activated barrier which would require taxis and buses to carry tags would be huge, totally unworkable.

I'm not sure why the Gardai are coming in for such a bashing here as they didn't put the ban in place.

The council control the parking wardens I believe? Could they not be the ones to issue tickets

Weltsmertz

beer enigma wrote: »

The cost of putting in a time activated barrier which would require taxis and buses to carry tags would be huge, totally unworkable.

There are no buses on Academy Street.
The power and influence of the taxi lobby is a big part of the problem.
The Gardai and council admitted in the Echo today that they use their discretion to take no action against taxis that park on cycle lanes.
Half moon Street, Emmet Place Academy Street would long ago have been pedestrianised in any other city.
However the taxis are insistent that they should be allowed to drive through these streets. So no time activated barrier is possible on Academy Street without their permission.
Similarly the barriers go down for Oliver Plunkett Street at 5pm primarily to allow taxis onto the street.
Automatic cameras to issue fines during Panaban are similarly not possible because the taxi drivers insisted that they be allowed ignore ban.
But the strange thing is that is taxis were excluded from a pedestrianised city centre and instead had to wait two or three minutes walk away their business would probably not be much else
But no. Because this is Cork and we do things differently they have to allowed drive through city center pedestrians.

TheChizler

Again, you're making big claims about groups of people laying out the rules for the guards and council, you're going to have to provide some evidence if you don't want to look like you're just making it up.

Weltsmertz

TheChizler wrote: »

Again, you're making big claims about groups of people laying out the rules for the guards and council, you're going to have to provide some evidence if you don't want to look like you're just making it up.

There is a cycle lane between the city center and the west of the city including colleges with thousands of students. Every single evening cyclists have to dangerously pull out in to traffic because of the taxis that park in the cycle lane.
For years the council and the Gardai have refused to take any action. Not a single parking ticket has been issued by the Gardai or the council.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-Gardai-say-policing-Washington-Street-cycle-lane-is-a-balancing-act-bc937e14-f13a-434d-807e-948c1b04dad9-ds?fbclid=IwAR26C56TDQ0ARRxgbLMpHg7X92pHgcARe46sFuo1U8FmYvMdK2_wXuurCMs

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

There is a cycle lane between the city center and the west of the city including colleges with thousands of students. Every single evening cyclists have to dangerously pull out in to traffic because of the taxis that park in the cycle lane.
For years the council and the Gardai have refused to take any action. Not a single parking ticket has been issued by the Gardai or the council.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-Gardai-say-policing-Washington-Street-cycle-lane-is-a-balancing-act-bc937e14-f13a-434d-807e-948c1b04dad9-ds?fbclid=IwAR26C56TDQ0ARRxgbLMpHg7X92pHgcARe46sFuo1U8FmYvMdK2_wXuurCMs

Not a single ticket? Where does it say that

namloc1980

Pana was a joke yesterday with cars clogging up the street during the alleged restricted hours. Still don't understand how people think it is positive to have standing traffic spewing out toxic fumes on the main street in the city.

the beer revolu

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pana was a joke yesterday with cars clogging up the street during the alleged restricted hours. Still don't understand how people think it is positive to have standing traffic spewing out toxic fumes on the main street in the city.

The only way people will comply, en masse, is if they make it 24 hour.
It's pointless as it stands.

robinbird

Olsky wrote: »

Once again issue is only cars and vans entering and driving through street DURING pedestrianised hours.
I see this as the major issue.
Nothing to do with parking and nothing to do with cars driving through street after pedestrianised hours have ended.

Olsky wrote: »

There are no bollards on Beasly Street and nothing to stop cars from legally using it to enter pedestrianised zone.

The right hand turn has been blocked off so you have to turn left onto Smith Street. There is no other option. And the no left hand turn signs onto Smith Street have all been removed. If the powers that be didn't want cars to use it to enter Oliver Plunkett Street during pedestrianised hours they would simply have blocked it off.

beer enigma wrote: »

It does have bollards, they're the pop up ones on the South mall side

Olsky wrote: »

There are no bollards stopping cars from entering onto Oliver Plunkett Street via Beasly Street. Smith Street is open during pedestrian hours and legal direction of traffic is ono Oliver Street.
However as I said cars enter illegally onto street as well
Point I'm making is that powers that be continue to allow cars to drive through pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street during hours that bollards are up even if theoretically they could be fined

Solution is very simple. Either fine a few cars to dissuade them from doing so or stop them accessing the street
In my opinion the pedestrian experience on Oliver Plunkett Street during the day is tainted and lessened by continuing to allow cars drive through the street.

flexcon wrote: »

Not to go around in circles here but I have to correct you.

Beasly street has bollards on South Mall side by the footpath. Just go check on Google Maps...Please. I told you I work in a Van and once curfew is in place, I cannot get there. Period.

Regarding Smith Street, you cannot get to oliver plunkett street legally. That is one way OFF Oliver plunkett street. .

Olsky wrote: »

Apologies. I stand corrected. At the moment cars legally enter Pembroke Street. They then legally turn onto Phoenix Street. However the left turn onto Smith Street which they then use to enter and drive through pedestrianised zone is illegeal.
Doesn't stop cars doing it throughout the day with impunity though.

Olsky wrote: »

Once again I am only talking about cars entering a driving through Oliver Plunkett Street during pedestrianised hours. Not parking on the street, not cars that were on the street before bollards come down and not parking or driving through the street outside of pedestrianised hours.

This is not an accident. It is direct consequence of the refusal to take any action against cars and trucks illegally driving through pedestrianised streets

Pedestrian dies after being hit by truck in Cork city centre
A WOMAN in her 50s has died after being knocked down by a truck on Smith Street in the city centre on Monday.
The incident happened at Smith Street, a narrow road between Oliver Plunkett Street and South Mall.

A statement from the Garda Press Office this morning said: "Gardaí are investigating a fatal road traffic collision involving a truck and a pedestrian that occurred in the Smith Street area of Cork City on 10/02/2020 at approximately 3:50pm.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-truck-in-Cork-city-centre-a6e131f1-2190-4c0e-b6cf-b1faed986502-ds

Padraig Mor

robinbird wrote: »

This is not an accident. It is direct consequence of the refusal to take any action against cars and trucks illegally driving through pedestrianised streets

Pedestrian dies after being hit by truck in Cork city centre
A WOMAN in her 50s has died after being knocked down by a truck on Smith Street in the city centre on Monday.
The incident happened at Smith Street, a narrow road between Oliver Plunkett Street and South Mall.

A statement from the Garda Press Office this morning said: "Gardaí are investigating a fatal road traffic collision involving a truck and a pedestrian that occurred in the Smith Street area of Cork City on 10/02/2020 at approximately 3:50pm.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-truck-in-Cork-city-centre-a6e131f1-2190-4c0e-b6cf-b1faed986502-ds

It's not a pedestrianised street.....

grogi

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's not a pedestrianised street.....

It doesn't matter. The climate is that cars own the streets in Cork.

beer enigma

grogi wrote: »

It doesn't matter. The climate is that cars own the streets in Cork.

This was a delivery truck, not a car and not on Patrick Street. As far as I know there have never been any traffic restrictions on Smith Street.

It's very narrow with pavement just on one side and one way from Oliver Plunkett street to South Mall. Its used a lot by vans and lorries delivering to the businesses on the first stretch of Oliver Plunket

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

This was a delivery truck, not a car and not on Patrick Street. As far as I know there have never been any traffic restrictions on Smith Street.

It's very narrow with pavement just on one side and one way from Oliver Plunkett street to South Mall. Its used a lot by vans and lorries delivering to the businesses on the first stretch of Oliver Plunket

Appears to have happened at 3.50pm, no vehicle should be able to access OP during that time, the bollards should be up. The vehicle could have made its way into the street via Pembroke and Phoenix streets.