So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

flexcon

TheChizler wrote: »

Or you know they could turn back and not break the law. I'm not sure what the relevance is anyway, it's hardly like the majority of vehicles illegally on OP street have found themselves there by mistakenly heading down Phoenix St.

Same page as you.

I used to work at that well known pub just before smith street, and basically i’d say 90% of traffic were taxis and van drivers.

As far as I saw - before the barriers stopped coming up in some places, the compliance was amazing then! Even though some chose to drive down a one way street, i’d say we are talking a few cars a day no?

Weltsmertz

Patrick Street yesterday afternoon. Ban completely ignored. Cars parked indiscriminately on pedestrian pavements. Gardai refusing to take any action.

Slipperydodger

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Patrick Street yesterday afternoon. Ban completely ignored. Cars parked indiscriminately on pedestrian pavements. Gardai refusing to take any action.

Shocking stuff altogether. I don't know why they aren't implementing fines. Could easily raise a handy €1,000 over a couple of hours. The cheek of businesses saying its the main reason sales are down is laughable when it is not even being adhered to.

grogi

I think I should sacrifice myself and try to drive through... Guaranteed that day the enforcement would start...

flexcon

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Patrick Street yesterday afternoon. Ban completely ignored. Cars parked indiscriminately on pedestrian pavements. Gardai refusing to take any action.

The ban is not completely ignored. If it was then we would have everyone driving there. Perhaps less exaggerated language?

A few cars are ignoring the ban. Even if only 5% of those ignored it you would find a car or two every so often coming down the street.

the beer revolu

flexcon wrote: »

The ban is not completely ignored. If it was then we would have everyone driving there. Perhaps less exaggerated language?

A few cars are ignoring the ban. Even if only 5% of those ignored it you would find a car or two every so often coming down the street.

Hmmmm
Magnatu get banned, somehow, and a while later, weltsmertz turns up going on about the police "refusing" to do stuff.

Anyone else suspicious?

Weltsmertz

flexcon wrote: »

Please stop. It’s just not.

We are going around in circles here.

It’s one way OFF plunkett street onto South Mall. There is a sign showing no left turn there. I love locally, I pass down there 3 or 4 times a week. I have an interest in this thread - Let’s not have another suggestion or the sort again.

And if you feel I am being harsh, it’s because this is the 3rd time someone’s has suggested Smith street is one way into oliver plunkett street and freely open to everyone.

flexcon wrote: »

Just back from my nightly walk (Soaked)
Sign still up saying no left turn.

I’m saying that it’s illegal if they do according to
that sign and the historical junction that’s been there years - no left turn.

Please STOP LYING.
And maybe go in to city instead of using Google Streetview images that are years old.

There is no "No left turn" sign at the corner of Smith Street and Phoenix Street. Photographic proof attached. And no markings indicating that they are not allowed to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street.

flexcon

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Please STOP LYING.
And maybe go in to city instead of using Google Streetview images that are years old.

There is no "No left turn" sign at the corner of Smith Street and Phoenix Street. Photographic proof attached. And no markings indicating that they are not allowed to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street.

No fricking way!!!!!!

That must be only a few days old that change. Even the road markings are gone!!

I am currently abroad - can’t wait to see when i go back.

That’s annoying since I can’t upload photos right now to show the situation a few days ago.

And regarding google maps - let it up - I used that example ages ago like months ago since I didn’t have any photos to show at the time. I am real. I am living local and I am not lying.

Edit : you can see the
new tarmac layed down. There it used to be a junction layout showing no way down onto plunkett street using the solid white and broken white line together.

Anyway - i’ll be back next week and i’ll dig out the photos I took with the sign there and all!

can I ask. When was that sign removed? Or do you believe a sign was never there? Just curious now and would love an answer.

EnzoScifo

The way the footpath juts out to dissuade left turns would suggest to me that the "No left turn" sign will return.

Weltsmertz

flexcon wrote: »

can I ask. When was that sign removed? Or do you believe a sign was never there? Just curious now and would love an answer.

Walked down it a few months ago and had no recollection of seeing a sign. But then again I wasn't looking for one. So can't be definite it wasn't there. U do recall that the right turn was blocked off so it wouldn't have made much sense.
Went back today to check because of your post a few days ago.

Tin Foil Hat

I would assume so, as soon as the other half of the street reopens. Until then, though, it will have to be left as a viable route off Pembroke street. (Turning on to Crane Lane is extremely tight).

flexcon

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Walked down it a few months ago and had no recollection of seeing a sign. But then again I wasn't looking for one. So can't be definite it wasn't there. U do recall that the right turn was blocked off so it wouldn't have made much sense.
Went back today to check because of your post a few days ago.

100% I agree that the right turn was blocked by works there. The roads signs seriously had up until very recently not changed. The line road markings were faded almost totally out and the sign was there.

i was mearly pointing out that if someone got onto oliver plunkett street from smith street it was illegal as was one way. I am not for one second suggesting people weren’t doing that though.

anyway it’s all mute point since you uploaded those photos and until I can upload mine with original metadata to show time stamps.

Tin Foil Hat

It doesn't matter if the sign was there or not. Traffic reaching that point, which it can do perfectly legally, has literally no other option other than to turn left towards Oliver Plunkett Street.

TheChizler

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the sign was there or not. Traffic reaching that point, which it can do perfectly legally, has literally no other option other than to turn left towards Oliver Plunkett Street.

Or turn back...

Tin Foil Hat

TheChizler wrote: »

Or turn back...

.... on a one way street?

Weltsmertz

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the sign was there or not. Traffic reaching that point, which it can do perfectly legally, has literally no other option other than to turn left towards Oliver Plunkett Street.

TheChizler wrote: »

Or turn back...

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

.... on a one way street?

This is a crucial point. whether there was a small sign is largely irrelevant. Cars car legally drive down Phoenix street. If they wanted to reduce the number of cars driving through pedestrianised Oliver Plunkett Street daytime there has always been a very easy solution. Close off access from Smith Street.

TheChizler

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

.... on a one way street?

Well phoenix st is two way on street view, I presume that's what it will go back to when they repaint. Nothing to suggest Pembroke St isn't two way either (even though I always thought it was one way) so they could head turn back via crane Lane or Pembroke St.

flexcon

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the sign was there or not. Traffic reaching that point, which it can do perfectly legally, has literally no other option other than to turn left towards Oliver Plunkett Street.

It does matter when that was the point of quite a few posters here and the major point of the OP when quoted.

However the complication now being they removed the sign and the road markings are now gone - so it’s a free for all.

It’s unfortunate but now we are discussing different scenarios from different times - it’s all mute surely then to go round and round like this.

ofcork

Maybe that's why the bollards were being left down on Pembroke street because they knew vehicles would come down and have to turn right anyway and end up on oliver plunkett street.

ofcork

Travellers sitting in their car on Patrick st today at 3.30 selling shamrock not a bother on them.

yogmeister

ofcork wrote: »

Travellers sitting in their car on Patrick st today at 3.30 selling shamrock not a bother on them.

Fecking pikeys believe in no laws

Curb Your Enthusiasm

ofcork wrote: »

Travellers sitting in their car on Patrick st today at 3.30 selling shamrock not a bother on them.

Gardai would be especially afraid to go near them for fear of them screaming about human rights violations and how they're a minority group.

Weltsmertz

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Gardai would be especially afraid to go near them for fear of them screaming about human rights violations and how they're a minority group.

Now you have to accept that if they did take action it would be very clear and obvious discrimination given that there is no action whatsoever taken against the large number of settled people that clearly and deliberately break the law on Patrick Street every single day.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Now you have to accept that if they did take action it would be very clear and obvious discrimination given that there is no action whatsoever taken against the large number of settled people that clearly and deliberately break the law on Patrick Street every single day.

Very true. It should be enforced all the time.

flexcon

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Now you have to accept that if they did take action it would be very clear and obvious discrimination given that there is no action whatsoever taken against the large number of settled people that clearly and deliberately break the law on Patrick Street every single day.

This guy ^^^^^

Judge and Jury here.

Even though we have seen photos and posts here in this thread to show people being stopped you would still stick with “No action whatsoever” because that’s all you saw personally.

I’d be interested to see the day when something catagorical and absolute actually happens in your life and see you lost for words because you’ve used them up already the way you’re going my friend.

Unless you see 100% compliance you don’t seem to accept something called progress. You called it “absolute failure”

It has massively
reduced bus times according to you know - Bus Eireann. That was it’s main purpose.

_Kaiser_

I do be in a Cork a fair bit and have noted alright that this "ban" seems advisory only.. but to be honest, given that 90% of C-reg cars I see down there never indicate, I'm not surprised. Would genuinely like to know why that is? I find it infuriating!

I use the P&R most of the time which is a great service (especially since they extended it), although why it doesn't run on Sundays is beyond me. It should be 7 days a week and similar services introduced not just in Cork but on the outskirts of Dublin as well.

Weltsmertz

flexcon wrote: »

This guy ^^^^^

Judge and Jury here.


Unless you see 100% compliance you don’t seem to accept something called progress. You called it “absolute failure”

It has massively
reduced bus times according to you know - Bus Eireann. That was it’s main purpose.

To the best of my knowledge Bus Eireann has provided no such statistics so once again you are probably making false and inaccurate claims.
Similarly your repeated claims that less private cars are driving through Patrick Street during the ban hours than were driving through it before the ban was introduced. This is impossible to argue against because you have provided no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

However I think there is a deeper and more fundamental difference of opinion and perspective between us that is irreconcilable.
You believe the purpose of the car ban was solely to improve bus times and have no issue with cars continuing to ignore the ban as long as this happened. Even if bus times had improved (and I don't know if they have) I feel that the purpose of the ban should be to made the city center more pedestrian friendly and a more pleasant experience.
You have no issue with "some* cars driving through pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street during the day. I feel that no private cars should be allowed on it during that time.
So I would fundamentally disagree with your view that there should be no enforcement of the bans because some car owners will voluntarily observe it and Shure isn't that all we want.
It's like saying that there should be a voluntary prohibition on murder because most people would voluntarily refrain from killing people anyway.

flexcon

Weltsmertz wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge Bus Eireann has provided no such statistics so once again you are probably making false and inaccurate claims.

See point below. Direct quotes from two sources. I am not making it up.

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Similarly your repeated claims that less private cars are driving through Patrick Street during the ban hours than were driving through it before the ban was introduced. This is impossible to argue against because you have provided no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Interesting point. Surely that means your points have an equal lack of evidence.

See quotes below from two sources again that highly suggest reduced congestion on the street.

Weltsmertz wrote: »

However I think there is a deeper and more fundamental difference of opinion and perspective between us that is irreconcilable.
You believe the purpose of the car ban was solely to improve bus times and have no issue with cars continuing to ignore the ban as long as this happened. Even if bus times had improved (and I don't know if they have) I feel that the purpose of the ban should be to made the city center more pedestrian friendly and a more pleasant experience.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/cork-city-reintroduces-car-ban-on-st-patrick-street-500194

" A priority bus corridor is being introduced on St Patrick Street in Cork from Thursday, which will see cars banned between 3.00pm and 6.30pm.
Cork Chamber adds that key to increasing capacity "is to improve journey times and the reliability of services."

"This cannot happen without dedicated public transport corridors", it claims.
Operations manager Martin Walsh says: "The bus priority measures on Patrick Street reduced some of our journey times significantly, so the return of this measure is helpful in terms of combating traffic congestion.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Dismay-from-Bus-Eireann-at-the-pause-in-the-Patrick-Street-car-ban-5c15c895-8cd3-4190-95c7-80289c793465-ds

The bus priority measures had led to an improvement in a number of bus route times, according to Director of Services for Roads and Transportation, Gerry O’Byrne, who spoke at last Friday’s meeting.

“Bus Eireann have confirmed that 208 route has recorded reductions in travel time of 13% in the City to Bishopstown direction and 28% on the City to Mayfield/Boherboy road direction,” he said.

“The 205 route, Kent Station to Patrick Street, Western road, College road and CIT, experienced reductions of 18%.

Weltsmertz wrote: »

You have no issue with "some* cars driving through pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street during the day. I feel that no private cars should be allowed on it during that time.

I agree. There should be no private cars driving onto the street. Not sure why you think to suggest otherwise.

Weltsmertz wrote: »

So I would fundamentally disagree with your view that there should be no enforcement of the bans because some car owners will voluntarily observe it and Shure isn't that all we want.

It would be fantastic if there was full enforcement. For now part enforcement seems to be doing a good job so far, but far from ideal.

Weltsmertz wrote: »

It's like saying that there should be a voluntary prohibition on murder because most people would voluntarily refrain from killing people anyway.

Ah very interesting point. Do some people murder and get away with it, even though its the law? Yes....

Do some people drive down a closed bus corridor and get away with it.....yes.

That's a more accurate analogy.

further direction of your attempted analogy would suggest the current closing of Patrick street is an advisory since we know people will break the law anyway. That isn't the case and doesn't seem to be factually correct.

Weltsmertz

flexcon wrote: »

See point below. Direct quotes from two sources. I am not making it up.




Interesting point. Surely that means your points have an equal lack of evidence.

See quotes below from two sources again that highly suggest reduced congestion on the street.



https://www.newstalk.com/news/cork-city-reintroduces-car-ban-on-st-patrick-street-500194

" A priority bus corridor is being introduced on St Patrick Street in Cork from Thursday, which will see cars banned between 3.00pm and 6.30pm.
Cork Chamber adds that key to increasing capacity "is to improve journey times and the reliability of services."

"This cannot happen without dedicated public transport corridors", it claims.
Operations manager Martin Walsh says: "The bus priority measures on Patrick Street reduced some of our journey times significantly, so the return of this measure is helpful in terms of combating traffic congestion.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Dismay-from-Bus-Eireann-at-the-pause-in-the-Patrick-Street-car-ban-5c15c895-8cd3-4190-95c7-80289c793465-ds

The bus priority measures had led to an improvement in a number of bus route times, according to Director of Services for Roads and Transportation, Gerry O’Byrne, who spoke at last Friday’s meeting.

“Bus Eireann have confirmed that 208 route has recorded reductions in travel time of 13% in the City to Bishopstown direction and 28% on the City to Mayfield/Boherboy road direction,” he said.

“The 205 route, Kent Station to Patrick Street, Western road, College road and CIT, experienced reductions of 18%.




I agree. There should be no private cars driving onto the street. Not sure why you think to suggest otherwise.




It would be fantastic if there was full enforcement. For now part enforcement seems to be doing a good job so far, but far from ideal.




Ah very interesting point. Do some people murder and get away with it, even though its the law? Yes....

Do some people drive down a closed bus corridor and get away with it.....yes.

That's a more accurate analogy.

further direction of your attempted analogy would suggest the current closing of Patrick street is an advisory since we know people will break the law anyway. That isn't the case and doesn't seem to be factually correct.

To respond to a few points. All the quotes re bus journey times relate to the first ban which was enforced but was abandoned and not the second and current ban which is not being enforced. Time reductions given were also for whole routes and not clear that entire reductions were for Patrick Street alone.

My point re Oliver Plunkett Street is that I was advocated stopping cars using Smith Street to access the street daytime whereas you seemed to be saying that a small "advisory" sign would be enough.

Our fundamental difference remains that I think allowing any cars break the ban means it is a failure as my focus is on pedestrian experience rather than bus journey times which I would consider an incidental benefit even if occurred and again Bus Eireann has only claimed that it occurred during the first enforced ban and not the current "advisory" one

A better example of the murder analogy would be if you knew that someone was going to commit murder at a specific time at a specific place e.g. Patrick Street at 5:00pm, and no action was taken by the gardai to either prevent the murder or arrest the murderer, would you consider the law against committing murder to be an effective deterrent.

Weltsmertz

Cork City centre on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Queues of cars backed up while waiting to drive through pedestrian priority zones of Daunt Square, Cornmarket Street and Paul Street. Most of the coming via Washington Street bus lane.