So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

TheChizler

Again, you're making big claims about groups of people laying out the rules for the guards and council, you're going to have to provide some evidence if you don't want to look like you're just making it up.

Weltsmertz

TheChizler wrote: »

Again, you're making big claims about groups of people laying out the rules for the guards and council, you're going to have to provide some evidence if you don't want to look like you're just making it up.

There is a cycle lane between the city center and the west of the city including colleges with thousands of students. Every single evening cyclists have to dangerously pull out in to traffic because of the taxis that park in the cycle lane.
For years the council and the Gardai have refused to take any action. Not a single parking ticket has been issued by the Gardai or the council.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-Gardai-say-policing-Washington-Street-cycle-lane-is-a-balancing-act-bc937e14-f13a-434d-807e-948c1b04dad9-ds?fbclid=IwAR26C56TDQ0ARRxgbLMpHg7X92pHgcARe46sFuo1U8FmYvMdK2_wXuurCMs

beer enigma

Weltsmertz wrote: »

There is a cycle lane between the city center and the west of the city including colleges with thousands of students. Every single evening cyclists have to dangerously pull out in to traffic because of the taxis that park in the cycle lane.
For years the council and the Gardai have refused to take any action. Not a single parking ticket has been issued by the Gardai or the council.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-Gardai-say-policing-Washington-Street-cycle-lane-is-a-balancing-act-bc937e14-f13a-434d-807e-948c1b04dad9-ds?fbclid=IwAR26C56TDQ0ARRxgbLMpHg7X92pHgcARe46sFuo1U8FmYvMdK2_wXuurCMs

Not a single ticket? Where does it say that

namloc1980

Pana was a joke yesterday with cars clogging up the street during the alleged restricted hours. Still don't understand how people think it is positive to have standing traffic spewing out toxic fumes on the main street in the city.

the beer revolu

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pana was a joke yesterday with cars clogging up the street during the alleged restricted hours. Still don't understand how people think it is positive to have standing traffic spewing out toxic fumes on the main street in the city.

The only way people will comply, en masse, is if they make it 24 hour.
It's pointless as it stands.

robinbird

Olsky wrote: »

Once again issue is only cars and vans entering and driving through street DURING pedestrianised hours.
I see this as the major issue.
Nothing to do with parking and nothing to do with cars driving through street after pedestrianised hours have ended.

Olsky wrote: »

There are no bollards on Beasly Street and nothing to stop cars from legally using it to enter pedestrianised zone.

The right hand turn has been blocked off so you have to turn left onto Smith Street. There is no other option. And the no left hand turn signs onto Smith Street have all been removed. If the powers that be didn't want cars to use it to enter Oliver Plunkett Street during pedestrianised hours they would simply have blocked it off.

beer enigma wrote: »

It does have bollards, they're the pop up ones on the South mall side

Olsky wrote: »

There are no bollards stopping cars from entering onto Oliver Plunkett Street via Beasly Street. Smith Street is open during pedestrian hours and legal direction of traffic is ono Oliver Street.
However as I said cars enter illegally onto street as well
Point I'm making is that powers that be continue to allow cars to drive through pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street during hours that bollards are up even if theoretically they could be fined

Solution is very simple. Either fine a few cars to dissuade them from doing so or stop them accessing the street
In my opinion the pedestrian experience on Oliver Plunkett Street during the day is tainted and lessened by continuing to allow cars drive through the street.

flexcon wrote: »

Not to go around in circles here but I have to correct you.

Beasly street has bollards on South Mall side by the footpath. Just go check on Google Maps...Please. I told you I work in a Van and once curfew is in place, I cannot get there. Period.

Regarding Smith Street, you cannot get to oliver plunkett street legally. That is one way OFF Oliver plunkett street. .

Olsky wrote: »

Apologies. I stand corrected. At the moment cars legally enter Pembroke Street. They then legally turn onto Phoenix Street. However the left turn onto Smith Street which they then use to enter and drive through pedestrianised zone is illegeal.
Doesn't stop cars doing it throughout the day with impunity though.

Olsky wrote: »

Once again I am only talking about cars entering a driving through Oliver Plunkett Street during pedestrianised hours. Not parking on the street, not cars that were on the street before bollards come down and not parking or driving through the street outside of pedestrianised hours.

This is not an accident. It is direct consequence of the refusal to take any action against cars and trucks illegally driving through pedestrianised streets

Pedestrian dies after being hit by truck in Cork city centre
A WOMAN in her 50s has died after being knocked down by a truck on Smith Street in the city centre on Monday.
The incident happened at Smith Street, a narrow road between Oliver Plunkett Street and South Mall.

A statement from the Garda Press Office this morning said: "Gardaí are investigating a fatal road traffic collision involving a truck and a pedestrian that occurred in the Smith Street area of Cork City on 10/02/2020 at approximately 3:50pm.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-truck-in-Cork-city-centre-a6e131f1-2190-4c0e-b6cf-b1faed986502-ds

Padraig Mor

robinbird wrote: »

This is not an accident. It is direct consequence of the refusal to take any action against cars and trucks illegally driving through pedestrianised streets

Pedestrian dies after being hit by truck in Cork city centre
A WOMAN in her 50s has died after being knocked down by a truck on Smith Street in the city centre on Monday.
The incident happened at Smith Street, a narrow road between Oliver Plunkett Street and South Mall.

A statement from the Garda Press Office this morning said: "Gardaí are investigating a fatal road traffic collision involving a truck and a pedestrian that occurred in the Smith Street area of Cork City on 10/02/2020 at approximately 3:50pm.


https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Pedestrian-dies-after-being-hit-by-truck-in-Cork-city-centre-a6e131f1-2190-4c0e-b6cf-b1faed986502-ds

It's not a pedestrianised street.....

grogi

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's not a pedestrianised street.....

It doesn't matter. The climate is that cars own the streets in Cork.

beer enigma

grogi wrote: »

It doesn't matter. The climate is that cars own the streets in Cork.

This was a delivery truck, not a car and not on Patrick Street. As far as I know there have never been any traffic restrictions on Smith Street.

It's very narrow with pavement just on one side and one way from Oliver Plunkett street to South Mall. Its used a lot by vans and lorries delivering to the businesses on the first stretch of Oliver Plunket

namloc1980

beer enigma wrote: »

This was a delivery truck, not a car and not on Patrick Street. As far as I know there have never been any traffic restrictions on Smith Street.

It's very narrow with pavement just on one side and one way from Oliver Plunkett street to South Mall. Its used a lot by vans and lorries delivering to the businesses on the first stretch of Oliver Plunket

Appears to have happened at 3.50pm, no vehicle should be able to access OP during that time, the bollards should be up. The vehicle could have made its way into the street via Pembroke and Phoenix streets.

beer enigma

namloc1980 wrote: »

Appears to have happened at 3.50pm, no vehicle should be able to access OP during that time, the bollards should be up. The vehicle could have made its way into the street via Pembroke and Phoenix streets.

Strange timing alright, as you say that's the only way it could have got there at that time of day

robinbird

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It's not a pedestrianised street.....

grogi wrote: »

It doesn't matter. The climate is that cars own the streets in Cork.

beer enigma wrote: »

It's very narrow with pavement just on one side and one way from Oliver Plunkett street to South Mall. Its used a lot by vans and lorries delivering to the businesses on the first stretch of Oliver Plunket

Correct. It's not a pedestrianised street.But it should be.
And there are no bollards.
And yes it is primarily used by cars, trucks and vans to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street during the hours when that street is supposedly pedestrianised.
And yes there should be some sort of action taken against the cars that drive through the pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street. But there isn't. So they do so with impunity.
Cork is going in the exact opposite direction of cities everywhere that are making city centres more pedestrian friendly. Streets that should be pedestrianised are kept open to cars, there are parking promotions to encourage cars to drive through so called pedestrian priority zones, cars are allowed to park on pedestrian plazas and cycle lanes without penalty and cars can drive through the few partially pedestrianised streets without fear of even a small fine.
And a woman is dead.

beer enigma

robinbird wrote: »

And yes it is primarily used by cars, trucks and vans to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street

This particular one is an odd one and even more tragic that it cost a life.

Smith Street is actually one way 'from' Oliver Plunkett Street but there appears to be a way onto it half way along via Pembroke Street and Phoenix Street as Namloc correctly says.

At 3.50pm the truck could only have come from South Mall, down Pembroke Street, right onto Phoenix Street and right again onto Smith Street to head back in a loop back onto South Mall

The bollards on Oliver Plunkett would have stopped access from the pedestrian area.

robinbird

beer enigma wrote: »

This particular one is an odd one and even more tragic that it cost a life.

Smith Street is actually one way 'from' Oliver Plunkett Street but there appears to be a way onto it half way along via Pembroke Street and Phoenix Street as Namloc correctly says.

At 3.50pm the truck could only have come from South Mall, down Pembroke Street, right onto Phoenix Street and right again onto Smith Street to head back in a loop back onto South Mall

The bollards on Oliver Plunkett would have stopped access from the pedestrian area.

There is sometimes a big difference between what is technically permitted and what happens in practice particularly in Cork where the car culture means there is no enforcement of the rules.

Smith Street is the main route that cars use to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street during the 7 hours out of 24 that the bollards are up at Pembroke Street and Parnell Place entrance.

There are no bollards on Smith Street. Council has been refusing to install them for many years. The main reason of course is that if there were bollards cars would be unable to use Smith Street to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street for the few hours every day that it is "pedestrianised"

RIP

Padraig Mor

robinbird wrote: »

This is not an accident. It is direct consequence of the refusal to take any action against cars and trucks illegally driving through pedestrianised streets

It's not a pedestrianised street.But it should be.
....... there are parking promotions to encourage cars to drive through so called pedestrian priority zones,

robinbird wrote: »

There are no bollards on Smith Street. Council has been refusing to install them for many years. The main reason of course is that if there were bollards cars would be unable to use Smith Street to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street for the few hours every day that it is "pedestrianised"

<SNIP>

There is zero evidence that this tragic accident has anything at all to do with vehicles accessing OP St, driving bans, or bizarre conspiracies to encourage motorists to break the law, and it's disturbing to see some posters exploiting this tragedy to further their agenda. From what's been reported, it seems to have involved a vehicle accessing the street perfectly legally to do deliveries in the area. Spare a thought for the driver too, who I'm sure is devastated (although I'm sure some posters here think he's rubbing his hands with glee). The woman BTW was by all accounts very well known and liked - RIP. It does highlight the dangers of trucks doing deliveries in narrow streets at busy times - personally I think city centre deliveries should be before 7am, or after 7pm. It's the second such incident in the city in the last number of years AFAIK - a woman was killed by a delivery truck down the lane next to Dunnes Patrick St a few years back as well; in fact when I saw the headline for this new case, I presumed it was a coroner's report or something re the earlier incident.

Gaspode

Please dont speculate on the identity of posters. Use the report post function if you think something is out of line.

robinbird

Padraig Mor wrote: »

it's disturbing to see some posters exploiting this tragedy to further their agenda. .

Your response is very reminiscent of a tactic that is used in the US every time there is a mass shooting. Anyone that tries to use it to call for tighter gun controls is severely criticised for using the tragedy to further their own agenda and told that they should have consideration for the family and friends of the victims by staying silent. The exact same tactic is now being used.
Every time a pedestrian is killed by a motor vehicle in Cork city centre we are told that anyone that speaks out is insensitive and that it is inappropriate to use such a tragedy to further the "pedestrianisation agenda"

I strongly disagree. There was a long and heated discussion in relation to Smith Street on this thread last year. On the one side there were those that believed that it should not be open to traffic during the hours that Oliver Plunkett Street was supposed to be pedestrianised and that cars,vans and trucks should not be allowed to use it to drive on to Oliver Plunkett Street during the pedestrianised hours. On the other side there were those who have no issue with cars, vans and trucks driving through pedestrians on narrow city centre lanes.
So yes a woman is dead but to use the "sensitivities" of her family or the truck driver in order to stifle debate as to the appropriateness of the current policy towards traffic in the city centre is a bulls.hit tactic

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/10/04/too-close-to-current-shooting-next-shooting-to-talk-about-gun-control-us-politicians-confirm/

TheChizler

robinbird wrote: »

Your response is very reminiscent of a tactic that is used in the US every time there is a mass shooting. Anyone that tries to use it to call for tighter gun controls is severely criticised for using the tragedy to further their own agenda and told that they should have consideration for the family and friends of the victims by staying silent. The exact same tactic is now being used.

It is highly disrespectful to use someone's death to further your argument when there is absolutely no evidence to connect their death to it. Come back when you have proof that the truck was accessing the street illegally.

robinbird

TheChizler wrote: »

It is highly disrespectful to use someone's death to further your argument when there is absolutely no evidence to connect their death to it. Come back when you have proof that the truck was accessing the street illegally.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kellyanne-conway-texas-shooting-response-democrats-disrespectful-dead-latest-a8042696.html

In the context of the ongoing discussion as to whether traffic should be allowed on to Smith Street during the hours that Oliver Plunkett Street is pedestrianised it is highly relevant. I took a stroll down there today at lunchtime and observed several cars using Smith Street to drive onto Oliver Plunkett street.

Traffic is clearly legally allowed to access the street legally during pedestrianised hours. And I never said that the truck did otherwise.
However I strongly disagree with the policy of allowing traffic to access narrow city centre streets during the day.
Such a policy makes such accidents if not inevitable then at least highly likely. This could just as easily have happened on Paul Street or Peter and Paul Street or Drawbridge Street or Emmet Place.

TheChizler

robinbird wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kellyanne-conway-texas-shooting-response-democrats-disrespectful-dead-latest-a8042696.html

In the context of the ongoing discussion as to whether traffic should be allowed on to Smith Street during the hours that Oliver Plunkett Street is pedestrianised it is highly relevant. I took a stroll down there today at lunchtime and observed several cars using Smith Street to drive onto Oliver Plunkett street.

As you were told repeatedly months ago and said above you can legally access Smith St from Pembroke St. There is nothing to suggest they were accessing a pedestrian area.

robinbird

TheChizler wrote: »

There is nothing to suggest they were accessing a pedestrian area.

These cars did not magically disappear when they reached the end of Smith Street. They turned left and drove through the pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street till they got to the Grand Parade.
And then probably drove through Patrick Street.

TheChizler

robinbird wrote: »

These cars did not magically disappear when they reached the end of Smith Street. They turned left and drove through the pedestrians on Oliver Plunkett Street till they got to the Grand Parade.
And then probably drove through Patrick Street.

I don't know what cars you're talking about, I'm talking about this specific incident.

robinbird

TheChizler wrote: »

I don't know what cars you're talking about, I'm talking about this specific incident.

Confused by the use of the word "they"
In relation to the truck I never suggested that it did anything illegal or that its intention was to drive onto Oliver Plunkett Street. I don't have that information.
However it is legitimate in the context of the the fatality to highlight the long standing and significant opposition there is to letting cars, vans and trucks drive through Smith Street during the day and also to point out that a large proportion of the cars that enter Smith Street use it to access a pedestrianised Oliver Plunkett Street.

beer enigma

robinbird wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/kellyanne-conway-texas-shooting-response-democrats-disrespectful-dead-latest-a8042696.html

In the context of the ongoing discussion as to whether traffic should be allowed on to Smith Street during the hours that Oliver Plunkett Street is pedestrianised it is highly relevant. I took a stroll down there today at lunchtime and observed several cars using Smith Street to drive onto Oliver Plunkett street.

Traffic is clearly legally allowed to access the street legally during pedestrianised hours. And I never said that the truck did otherwise.
However I strongly disagree with the policy of allowing traffic to access narrow city centre streets during the day.
Such a policy makes such accidents if not inevitable then at least highly likely. This could just as easily have happened on Paul Street or Peter and Paul Street or Drawbridge Street or Emmet Place.

Several cars going the wrong way on Smith Street during a lunchtime stroll?

I was charity collecting on Oliver Plunkett Street with my son for about 3 hours around there from 11 till 1pm and didn't see one vehicle.

That's Smith Street tho not Patrick Street

robinbird

Was in town today a took a photo. (attached)
Smith Street in primarily used by cars and vans that want to drive onto and through Oliver Plunkett Street during the 7 out of 24 hours that is pedestrianised.
Now I know there are those that argue that allowing occasional cars to drive through the pedestrians during pedestrianised hours is fine.
I strongly disagree. I think that it prevents the proper pedestrian usage of the street and keeps it instead as a defacto car road with pedestrians always having to be mindful the that they might need to get out of the way of a car.
Closing off access from Smith Street during pedestrianised hours would significantly cut down on the number of cars driving through during pedestrianised hours.

beer enigma

robinbird wrote: »

Was in town today a took a photo. (attached)
Smith Street in primarily used by cars and vans that want to drive onto and through Oliver Plunkett Street during the 7 out of 24 hours that is pedestrianised.
Now I know there are those that argue that allowing occasional cars to drive through the pedestrians during pedestrianised hours is fine.
I strongly disagree. I think that it prevents the proper pedestrian usage of the street and keeps it instead as a defacto car road with pedestrians always having to be mindful the that they might need to get out of the way of a car.
Closing off access from Smith Street during pedestrianised hours would significantly cut down on the number of cars driving through during pedestrianised hours.

What time was that photo taken?

Whilst the van is definitely going the wrong way by the looks of it, the 'screenshot' is 18.43 and Oliver Plunkett is open to traffic at 4.30pm so he'd have no need to go that way

robinbird

beer enigma wrote: »

What time was that photo taken?

About 2:00pm. Here's one from 23:26.

beer enigma

robinbird wrote: »

About 2:00pm. Here's one from 23:26.

23.36 is fairly dark in Cork

The car ban finishes at 4.30 (16.30)

I'm slightly confused

ofcork

Whatever time it was the van is going the wrong way on a one way street uk reg or not,ignored the no left turn sign if it came down phoenix street.

ofcork

Was in town sunday still a fair amount breaking the ban even though quiet overall.