So Patrick street is bus only from Thursday 9th August

whisky_galore

opus wrote: »

Took me a second to remember why I was just able to cross the road without having to wait for a green light
.

Sounds like a normal day on Pana, even with traffic .with the amount of jaywalking that goes on at any rate.

Johngoose

There is a reason that Cork people have such a dependency on cars. There is no credible public transport option that is totally reliable for most living outside the city centre. In Dublin the Luas green and red lines give a realistic alternative to driving a car, that is efficient and reliable.

the beer revolu

Frostybrew wrote: »

I think four days is a bit early to decide if something is working or not, especially as people need time to adjust to the new arrangement. Once people fall into a routine again congestion should ease.

This +100
It is ridiculous to suggest reversing the measures due to failure after such a short period of time. We do not know what the effect of the measures are yet. To suggest the reversal so soon is the epitome of a knee jerk reaction.

the beer revolu

macraignil wrote: »

I agree with the idea of a park and ride facility on the north side of the city. .

But you've made it quite clear that unless the bus drops you to your place of work, you won't use it as your girlfriend won't walk any distance in the rain.

Cork Boy 53

the beer revolu wrote: »

This +100
It is ridiculous to suggest reversing the measures due to failure after such a short period of time. We do not know what the effect of the measures are yet. To suggest the reversal so soon is the epitome of a knee jerk reaction.

True comment. Also, in the unlikely event the measures were reversed so soon, I can just imagine what the reaction would be from those who are in favour of the new system.

Cork Boy 53

Johngoose wrote: »

There is a reason that Cork people have such a dependency on cars. There is no credible public transport option that is totally reliable for most living outside the city centre. In Dublin the Luas green and red lines give a realistic alternative to driving a car, that is efficient and reliable.

Several posters have stated otherwise here.

cgcsb

whisky_galore wrote: »

It'll just move the problem somewhere else.
Small city with a limited number of routes to use, simple logic really.

It's always the 'stick' approach, punishing the motorist. Where's the 'carrot'? Where's the positive incentive to leave the car at home?

if the measure reduces bus journey times by ten minutes and increases the reliability of the bus that is an incentive to change mode.

cgcsb

The moaners on this thread are perplexing. Some claiming that the change has added as much as an hour to their car commute. Seriously lads cork ain't big, you can cycle a whopping 20km in an hour or walk about 6km in the same time. Draw a circle around cork with a 20km radius centred on Patrick St. You can literally get anywhere in Cork in the time you guys are claiming this has added to your commutes and that's before even considering the improved frequency speed and reliability of the bus service. The distances people are claiming that it's taking them an hour to drive are only 5km. If it takes an hour to drive 5km cop yer self on and get out and walk.

cgcsb

Johngoose wrote: »

There is a reason that Cork people have such a dependency on cars. There is no credible public transport option that is totally reliable for most living outside the city centre. In Dublin the Luas green and red lines give a realistic alternative to driving a car, that is efficient and reliable.

A bus only Patrick St will go some way to making the bus a realistic alternative. The vast majority of Dublin's public transport users are using the bus which covers a much larger area than luas and dart services.

the beer revolu

fin12 wrote: »

The north cathedral wouldn’t be an option, I know a person that parks there, you pay the church for the car space for the year so all those spaces would be taken in advance.

macraignil wrote: »

Gridlock is unpredictable in how much delay it causes from day to day. That is why I used the term "about".

You suggested going to the north cathedral to park for the entire work day every day of the week which I'm unsure the bishop would be too pleased about in case he might have visitors himself to facilitate. From the google maps picture it looks like there are just about 30 spaces which I'd imagine he would want free if they were having mass of some sort. Also the roads there are often gridlocked because of the way the city traffic is managed so while I appreciate you trying to help I'm not sure that suggestion would actually prove to be useful.

You can park by the hour or by the day in the North Cathedral car park - also monthly reductions available. It's a pay and display car park.

As regards, the streets being gridlocked; didn't you say that you travel out through Blackpool? You would/could be driving past this car park every day on your way to work. Regardless, I think you'd be much better off going up Shandon Street and continuing on down Ger Griffith Street to Blackpool.

j8wk2feszrnpao

cgcsb wrote: »

If it takes an hour to drive 5km cop yer self on and get out and walk.

Can you cop on?
Not everyone just goes from A to B.
Plenty have to collect kids, drops others home, go shopping.....
It's not an option to walk/cycle for plenty of people, esp if they don't have shower facilities if wet or sweating.
And if others don't want to, then that's their choice; they'll have to accept the traffic/delays.

macraignil

the beer revolu wrote: »

You can park by the hour or by the day in the North Cathedral car park - also monthly reductions available. It's a pay and display car park.

As regards, the streets being gridlocked; didn't you say that you travel out through Blackpool? You would/could be driving past this car park every day on your way to work. Regardless, I think you'd be much better off going up Shandon Street and continuing on down Ger Griffith Street to Blackpool.

Thanks for the suggestion. Going to try a variation of the Shandon Street route this week now so hoping this works to avoid the worst of the gridlock. Already have a monthly car park deal and if alternative route works out the current car park might still be viable. It's really the closest car park to work and the girlfriend is seriously against moving to one further away due to the extra walk in the rain.

Lia_lia

macraignil wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion. Going to try a variation of the Shandon Street route this week now so hoping this works to avoid the worst of the gridlock. Already have a monthly car park deal and if alternative route works out the current car park might still be viable. It's really the closest car park to work and the girlfriend is seriously against moving to one further away due to the extra walk in the rain.

This walk in the rain thing is gas. It doesn't rain as much as we think. I used to walk (about 30 mins) to the train station and back everyday when I commuted from the city to Cobh and never remember being bothered by the rain. I prefer driving from A-B though so can understand how you feel about not wanting to use public transport.

I don't know what to make of this Patrick street closure really. I think I've only driven through Patrick street once. I have noticed there always seems to be a Garda/traffic warden directing traffic on Grand Parade. Seems like a waste of resources, how long will that last?

I am extremely luckily with my commute to work. I commute from the city to the Northside and there are plenty of routes you can take to miss traffic. Usually takes me about 7 minutes depending on what Sunday's Well is like with people who don't think their cars with fit between other cars..

j8wk2feszrnpao

Lia_lia wrote: »

This walk in the rain thing is gas. It doesn't rain as much as we think.

Yes, yes it does. And when people start quoting other European cities, the evidence is always there.
Now, maybe we can do more to cope with it; that is certainly something that can be looked at, but it does rain as much as we think it does.
I've walked to worked when I lived nearby, I cycled when I needed to, and (suffering serious annoyance due to lack of reliability) I've relied on public transport.
I've had the days of being wet at work, and the illness that can come with it. Was lucky that I had access to shower facilities after an 8km cycle (if you think you don't end up smelling at some point after a decent cycle to work, you just haven't been told yet).

Lia_lia wrote: »

I have noticed there always seems to be a Garda/traffic warden directing traffic on Grand Parade. Seems like a waste of resources, how long will that last?

I think it's the right use of resources. During rush hours is exactly when they should be visible and most out in force; dealing with people blocking yellow boxes, breaking lights, illegal parking, ........ So much bad driving could be cut out if the Gardai were more visual.

I'm hoping that the Patrick St change will work, but it won't on it's own. The City Council has a lot to do yet, with help from other bodies required (such as the implementation of a North Ring).

FrStone

Frostybrew wrote: »

The disruption over the last few days will decrease as people get used to the new arrangement and change their travel arrangements. The cause of the disruption is down to two types of reaction to the changes. The first reaction happens with people who weren't aware of the changes and had to suddenly change their routine, leading to confusion. The second reaction happens when people know about the changes, expect chaos and overcompensate, and choose an alternative route thats not suitable. When you multiply these reactions by several thousand it leads to driver behaviours that rapidly cause increased congestion.

The fact of the matter is that Patrick Street was not a heavily trafficked route before the changes, and the moving of private cars onto alternative routes is not enough to increase congestion. It's a change for the better.

People in this city need to realise that it's no longer a small town. It's a rapidly growing medium sized European city, and it's no longer possible for everyone to drive wherever they want, whenever they want; without heavily disruptive traffic congestion. It's physically not possible. A large scale modal shift needs to occur and the Patrick Street changes are a part of a plan to facilitate change.

Or we need to put our foot down. I'm quite happy with Cork not growing rapidly, as I'm sure are so many others. 
Anyway, it would have made more sense if they closed the street during the morning. Pana used be busiest going home in the evening. People generally didn't use it in the morning.

AugustusMinimus

FrStone wrote: »

Or we need to put our foot down. I'm quite happy with Cork not growing rapidly, as I'm sure are so many others. 
Anyway, it would have made more sense if they closed the street during the morning. Pana used be busiest going home in the evening. People generally didn't use it in the morning.

I don’t understand this attitude. Are you happy to see other cities attract growth and jobs ahead of Cork?

fin12

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I don’t understand this attitude. Are you happy to see other cities attract growth and jobs ahead of Cork?

Well when they don’t build the proper infrastructure to accommodate that growth then yes.

whisky_galore

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Can you cop on?
Not everyone just goes from A to B.
Plenty have to collect kids, drops others home, go shopping.....
It's not an option to walk/cycle for plenty of people, esp if they don't have shower facilities if wet or sweating.
And if others don't want to, then that's their choice; they'll have to accept the traffic/delays.

It does seem to be quieter when people don't drive the offspring to school.

Someone mentioned on radio last week that unaccompanied schoolkids in Rome use the Metro there to get to and from school. Of course we wouldn't dream of leaving kids go off on public transport here.

nostro

whisky_galore wrote: »

It does seem to be quieter when people don't drive the offspring to school.

Someone mentioned on radio last week that unaccompanied schoolkids in Rome use the Metro there to get to and from school. Of course we wouldn't dream of leaving kids go off on public transport here.

Parents driving their children to school massively increases traffic congestion in Cork and Ireland.. Very different from most other European countries where allowing children go by themselves is used as a way to build Independence and increase fitness. Very much a cultural thing that we have imported from the states.

grogi

nostro wrote: »

Parents driving their children to school massively increases traffic congestion in Cork and Ireland.. Very different from most other European countries where allowing children go by themselves is used as a way to build Independence and increase fitness. Very much a cultural thing that we have imported from the states.

It is not really cultural, but territorial issue* and care facilities** issue.

* In majority of cases children go to the primary school that is closest to their residence. In Ireland they go to the school that not only has an ethos aligned with their belief, but also is a feeder school to the high-school of their choice. You cannot expect a kid to travel to the other side of town to school alone...

** In many cases children can be minded at school. In Ireland parents need to take lunch break to bring the kids from school to the after-school facility. The schools are closed much more frequently than in other regions I have lived.

GavRedKing

First time being in town yesterday to see it in action, got parking on the south mall but after 3pm there was still a lot of cars parked on Patrick St, I'm assuming they werent given tickets but whats the procedure here if you went off shopping at 1am and came back to you car after 3pm and had to go down Patrick St?

FrStone

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

FrStone wrote: »

Or we need to put our foot down. I'm quite happy with Cork not growing rapidly, as I'm sure are so many others. 
Anyway, it would have made more sense if they closed the street during the morning. Pana used be busiest going home in the evening. People generally didn't use it in the morning.

I don’t understand this attitude.  Are you happy to see other cities attract growth and jobs ahead of Cork?

Sure rapid growth means an increase in traffic, increasing urban sprawl leading to the countryside being destroyed and property prices increasing. There are plenty of good quality jobs in Cork as it stands. We need to be picky about what type of growth we need.
We don't have a north ring road to support the growth, or a motorway to Ringaskiddy (how long has that debacle gone on for) or the proper infrastructure to deal with Little Island.
The city council should be focussing where they have failed miserably for example Blackpool and not try and destroy whats remaining of the city centre.

whisky_galore

nostro wrote: »

Parents driving their children to school massively increases traffic congestion in Cork and Ireland.. Very different from most other European countries where allowing children go by themselves is used as a way to build Independence and increase fitness. Very much a cultural thing that we have imported from the states.

Cotton wool parenting. When I was in primary school the parents and neighbours used car-pool, in second level I was expected to cycle a few km to the bus stop and catch the bus.
Granted it was a rural area and we would bunk off for half the day at weekends or on school holidays. Now if a kid is out for more than a hour it's missing child stuff.

MeName

GavRedKing wrote: »

First time being in town yesterday to see it in action, got parking on the south mall but after 3pm there was still a lot of cars parked on Patrick St, I'm assuming they werent given tickets but whats the procedure here if you went off shopping at 1am and came back to you car after 3pm and had to go down Patrick St?

From what I can see while driving they've reduced the commercial parking to end at 3. So I assume it's just free after 3 now. Unless there are additional signs up prohibiting parking that I missed.

GavRedKing

Ya, the two parking signs I seen we're revised to say it was pay and display or a loading zone up until 3, Mon - Sat.

nostro

grogi wrote: »

It is not really cultural, but territorial issue* and care facilities** issue.

It is very much cultural. I was in Slovenia last month and was passed one morning by streams of primary school children cycling to school. If it was Ireland the road would have been congested by the cars of their parents/bodyguards.
Corron wool parenting/stranger danger and the culture if fear is a direct import from the states and the main contributing factor to the compariuve unfitness levels of our children and childhood obesity. The argument that it is for logistical reasons is spurious.

nostro

grogi wrote: »

You cannot expect a kid to travel to the other side of town to school alone.... In Ireland parents need to take lunch break to bring the kids from school to the after-school facility.

I think it is sad that this mentality is now so pervasive.

j8wk2feszrnpao

nostro wrote: »

I think it is sad that this mentality is now so pervasive.

It’s not mentality, it’s reality.
When the crèche finishes at 12, I know people who have to then leave work to take the kids to a child minder, then get back to work.
There’s plenty of situations that two working parents have to deal with when they have kids; it’s not always straight forward.
FF were single focused during the boom, we still have the effects of it today.
It’s a sad situation for many, and sad that people are ignorant to those challenges.

nostro

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It’s not mentality, it’s reality.
When the crèche finishes at 12, I know people who have to then leave work to take the kids to a child minder, then get back to work.
There’s plenty of situations that two working parents have to deal with when they have kids; it’s not always straight forward.
It’s a sad situation for many, and sad that people are ignorant to those challenges.

I wasn't talking about toddlers in creches. That's deliberately changing the issue. I was talking about children of school going age. In most European countries they go to school on their own. In Ireland they are often driven by their parents.
Now you could argue that it rains here sometimes. And the little dears could get pneumonia and die. Or that the distances to school are larger in Ireland (they are not) or that Irish children would not be smart enough or fit enough to go to school on their own. Or that Ireland is a much more dangerous country than others(it is not) so children have to be chaperoned everywhere.
Ironic to see programs like Operation Transformation harping on about childhood fitness when the solution is obvious.
Let children be independent and go to school on their own. Stop mollycoddling them and driving them.

j8wk2feszrnpao

nostro wrote: »

I wasn't talking about toddlers in creches. That's deliberately changing the issue.

It’s not just toddlers in crèche, so not even close to changing the issue. Your failure to grasp that perhaps highlights your ignorance in this area.