Ireland to consider expelling Russian diplomats

Mumha

BlackWitch wrote: »

Ireland expelling a Russian diplomat because of some sort of western campaign to vilify Russia is a disgrace, there is no evidence, there are no suspects, there is a theory that western govt's have been parroted by all "democratic" countries behind the UK, "the UK would never lie!".

Some people will call me a troll or Putler bot, or whatever.

Russia are simply not stupid enough to poison a Russian exiled double agent who they released from prison on a swap, at this time.

My personal belief is that it was an MI6 black-op, orchestrated to look like RUSSIA!, just as all the other BS was winding down with the US's Russia probe, which cost millions and millions then were shut down because of zero evidence.

This is just the latest BS campaign against probably the worlds greatest leader, he is smart, loyal to his people and has slowly and meticulously improved Russia from the basket case he inherited from Yeltsin.

He speaks the truth on world affairs and threats in a straightforward, easy to understand way, yet is completely ignored by western media when speaking of threats and provocations that have the ability to easily kick of Armageddon.

The Irish Lapdog establishment have shown nothing but obedience to it's masters yet again.

Nice one, Boris

Billy86

mulbot wrote: »

Exports to Russia were over e700 million in 2014! Hardly little

That amounts to about 0.9% of our total exports (€74bn in 2015), or about 4.25% of the exports we send to the UK (€16.5bn). It puts them just below the likes of the Czechs or UAE with us, and just above the likes of Turkey or Romania.

Mumha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

As many times as needed, until they get it right.

You're slow with this, and as many times they can say no, but here in a democracy you can piss people off, and they'll vote you out. I accept it doesn't work like that where you come from.

Elmer Blooker

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Have we ever expelled diplomats before?

....... only when we are ordered to.

ArchXStanton

Mumha wrote: »

You're slow with this, and as many times they can say no, but here in a democracy you can piss people off, and they'll vote you out. I accept it doesn't work like that where you come from.

What about the French and Dutch who had their referendums ignored? Or the architect of the Lisbon treaty on record as saying they deliberately made it unreadable so government's could sell it to their people better and put off any calls for referendums on it... Democracy is just a word the EU uses but doesn't believe in...

There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties - Juncker

Mumha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s a wall of text there. But it’s nonsense. Hungary is firmly within NATO. That’s part of the problem as far as Russia is concerned - the expansion east of NATO.

Facts, they're called facts. You're fooling no one.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

People who voted Brexit meant it. If FB campaigns worked they would work on the young and urban not the old and rural.

People who voted Brexit, voted for a variety of reasons, not least the £350m that was supposedly going to go to the NHS, which didn't get beyond the following day before the traitor Farage admitted that it wasn't going to happen, and those in the deprived areas like South Wales, South west and North of England who only found out afterwards that they actually got a lot of help from the EU regional fund. The truth will come out in time about Cambridge Analytica, Farage and the Putin link.

mulbot

Mumha wrote: »

Facts, they're called facts. You're fooling no one.



People who voted Brexit, voted for a variety of reasons, not least the £350m that was supposedly going to go to the NHS, which didn't get beyond the following day before the traitor Farage admitted that it wasn't going to happen, and those in the deprived areas like South Wales, South west and North of England who only found out afterwards that they actually got a lot of help from the EU regional fund. The truth will come out in time about Cambridge Analytica, Farage and the Putin link.

Don't you mean Steve Bannon,Donald Trump etc. Putin(afaik) hasn't been connected in any way.

IngazZagni

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Have we ever expelled diplomats before?

The last time it happened was to an Israeli diplomat in 2010 over the assassination of a Hamas member by Mossad who forged Irish passports to disguise themselves.

Mumha

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Someone should tell them that then.
Do you honestly think the Tories and the Brexiteers give 2 sh1tes about us in Eire.... I mean they have such a brilliant track record of upright behaviour in Anglo Irish affairs and International politics over many centuries!
Putin is no hero, but what are we doing sticking our oar in, such a load of crap. We have no business imo sticking our noses in this, it's part of an Anglo - Russian spat, that is acting as a proxy for a NATO-EU expansion policy vs perceived Russian expansionist policy.
I have no idea what happened in Salisbury, but neither has any of us. It's as likely to have been perpetrated by the British forces as the Russians to be honest, who knows,but I certainly wouldn't be taking Boris and the Home Office's word at face value.
Have we a choice anyway more though, is this a part of the PENSO club we joined last year?

Bit of an understatement there ! A murderous thug and totalitarian dictator, who just fixed his latest election "victory".

The majority of EU countries are supporting this. Do try get a second eye.

Mumha

mulbot wrote: »

Don't you mean Steve Bannon,Donald Trump etc. Putin(afaik) hasn't been connected in any way.

Research for yourself, Putin is behind it all. Bannon, Trump etc were conveniently useful idiots.

Creol1

IngazZagni wrote: »

The last time it happened was to an Israeli diplomat in 2010 over the assassination of a Hamas member by Mossad who forged Irish passports to disguise themselves.

A Russian diplomat was also expelled the following year for similar reasons, i.e., passport fraud.

mulbot

Mumha wrote: »

Research for yourself, Putin is behind it all. Bannon, Trump etc were conveniently useful idiots.

I have,also I've followed the research from other more qualified people,still no link

blanch152

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Someone should tell them that then.
Do you honestly think the Tories and the Brexiteers give 2 sh1tes about us in Eire.... I mean they have such a brilliant track record of upright behaviour in Anglo Irish affairs and International politics over many centuries!
Putin is no hero, but what are we doing sticking our oar in, such a load of crap. We have no business imo sticking our noses in this, it's part of an Anglo - Russian spat, that is acting as a proxy for a NATO-EU expansion policy vs perceived Russian expansionist policy.
I have no idea what happened in Salisbury, but neither has any of us. It's as likely to have been perpetrated by the British forces as the Russians to be honest, who knows,but I certainly wouldn't be taking Boris and the Home Office's word at face value.
Have we a choice anyway more though, is this a part of the PENSO club we joined last year?

A very apt username.


Let us look at this from the Irish perspective. All foreign policy actions should be guided by what a country needs.

Foreign Policy Priority Number 1: Reverse Brexit

This is a fairly unlikely objective, but is still the number one priority. When you view the Salisbury incident through that prism, then there is only one option: show the UK that European solidarity is valuable and they are throwing a lot away by leaving the EU. Result: Expel diplomat

Foreign Policy Priority Number 2: If Brexit can't be reversed, get the EU to support us to deliver a soft Brexit and maintain open communication with the UK.

Once again, viewed through this prism, the answer and result are the same as Number 1

Foreign Policy Priority Number 3: There is none, the first two are too important.

Now, so long as we are not being asked to do something ethically revolting, we have to pay heed to the above. We should only act in Ireland's interests. Clearly, this is a time when we need to act.

If we learned anything from the Malvinas disaster, when Haughey made a really stupid decision, there is no point dying on your principles. Anglo-Irish relations were set back by a decade, and despite Garret's best attempts, it wasn't until Albert came along that we managed to make progress in solving the North.

Zebra3

Jacko753 wrote: »

I always wondered why Haughey abandoned his Republican ideals and started sucking up to the British so suddenly.

If only Russia adopted some of Britain's tactics their diplomats wouldn't be getting expelled from Ireland.

The only thing Haughey was into was himself. Cheated on his wife, stole from his mate.

Him having ideals? Sure he was FF!!!

lifeandtimes

Odhinn wrote: »

Course we will. Reality hasn't gotten in the way before, so why would it now?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-is-now-a-fullyfledged-participant-in-modern-cold-war-as-varadkar-says-we-cant-be-neutral-36751533.html

"Varadkar says we can't be neutral in a cold war"

Really don't think that's his f**king call to make to be honest

Its the Irish people's to make.

Words like that will leave us open to retaliation

TheValeyard

IngazZagni wrote: »

The last time it happened was to an Israeli diplomat in 2010 over the assassination of a Hamas member by Mossad who forged Irish passports to disguise themselves.

Remember that. Didnt they gain access to our passport machines or something and used it to forge a few, then, blow up a Hamas leader in Dubai?

dermo888

They should have given them the freedom of Dublin for that stunt. Blowing up anyone who supports Sharia Law is all fair and fine by me.

ChikiChiki

Ireland, the kind of country that is significant enough and an easy target for Russia to pull some stunt being strategically perfect but also insignificant enough for our EU partners to give too much a damn about if push came to shove.

I'll say it again, Leo was foolish to act on this. Trying to be act big fella alongside Macron et al.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mumha wrote: »

Bit of an understatement there ! A murderous thug and totalitarian dictator, who just fixed his latest election "victory".

The majority of EU countries are supporting this. Do try get a second eye.

Does anybody really honk Putin lost the election? That he doesn’t have the support of most of the population?

Franz Von Peppercorn

dermo888 wrote: »

They should have given them the freedom of Dublin for that stunt. Blowing up anyone who supports Sharia Law is all fair and fine by me.

Bit of a dual standard there bob. In the war between Israel and Hamas I have no horse in the race so it would be great if a foreign country didn’t steal my passports. I believe the Americans have used it too.

dermo888

Well to be honest, I'd be happy if the pair of them wiped each other out. They are as bad as each other. Merely that I've such an intense loathing of any kind of interference of religion and state to the point I'm a bit crazy.

Elmer Blooker

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Does anybody really honk Putin lost the election? That he doesn’t have the support of most of the population?

The Russian people had a look at EU/US sponsored "democracy" in action next door in Ukraine, it appears they didn't want to live in a country with no one in control, mob rule, paramilitaries marching in the streets commemorating Nazis, corruption ten times worse than it was before the coup, the economy in ruins and the country now the property of the IMF.
A good move by Russians voting for strong leadership and political stability from outside interference.

Jacko753

Jacko753 wrote: »

We didn't expel anyone when Britain bombed Dublin and monaghan, no because Britain are actually dangerous whereas Russia are not to us that's why Fine Gael are getting so brave because there is no real threat.

Fine Gael who ordered the Gardai to end an investigation into the biggest mass murder in the States history after just 3 months, because any politicians in Ireland who speak out against Britain the UVF will mysteriously put a bomb under your car the next day.

100% there. The paid mouthpieces of British intelligence in Independent Newspapers and RTÉ Current Affairs department (particularly in the 1980s; we all know who they are at this stage), as well as in the FG-Labour coalition government of which the notorious Paddy Cooney of Fine Gael was Minister for Justice, since August 1969 will do their best to deflect from the extent to which the British state has subverted the Irish state, including to the extent of colluding with loyalist paramilitaries in the murder of Irish citizens.

The following is a very clear example of the British state subverting democracy in Ireland - yet, never were members of the British diplomatic corp expelled from this state. Why? Because that would have taken genuine courage from an Irish government. To say this is in no way to oppose the expulsion of the Russians: personally, the Russians with their settler-colonialism in adjacent countries and support for self-declared "Russian" separatist movements in Ukraine and elsewhere are soul mates of the British state and its activities in Ireland against the native Irish since 1609. Striking similarities right there, screaming at anybody who wants to open their eyes.

On 1 December 1972, when two separate car bombs exploded in Eden Quay and Sackville Place, Dáil Éireann was debating a bill to amend the Offences Against the State Act which would enact stricter measures against the Provisional IRA and other paramilitary groups. As a result of the two bombings, which killed two men and wounded 131, the Dáil voted for the amendment, which introduced special emergency powers to combat the IRA. It is believed that the 26 November and 1 December bombings were executed to influence the outcome of the voting. Irish Supreme Court Justice Henry Barron commissioned an official inquiry into the bombings. The findings were published in a report in November 2004. (Source: 1972 & 1973 Dublin bombings)

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Have we ever expelled diplomats before?

Donnacha Ó Beacháin of DCU was on Morning Ireland this morning and he noted that Ireland was 'the last EEC country to establish diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union.' and mentioned the following precedents for former expulsions.

1983: Garret Fitzgerald expelled 3 Russian diplomats 'ostensibly for espionage'.

2010: Russian diplomat expelled 'because An Garda believed that they were cloning the passports of applicants for Russian visas and they were using them for espionage in the United States'

Also, on one of the past papers for my LC decades ago, the question was What country objected to Ireland joining the United Nations? Answer: USSR (I remember it because it was the only question our brilliant history teacher didn't know the answer to)

seamus

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And Crimea is probably the limit of his ambitions.

That makes me chuckle a little bit, because it sounds a lot like the things that poor Neville Chamberlain continually told the British parliament in the run up to WWII.

Putin grew up in the USSR. He was a fully integrated member of the Soviet military, and a highly loyal KGB agent of the Soviet Union.

It would be a mistake to assume that Putin desires anything less than the reintegration of former Soviet states into the Russian federation.

From his point of view, these are Russian territories that have been stolen - they were Russian when he was born and through his entire childhood and early adulthood.

To say that his ambitions "probably" end at Crimea sounds more like blind hope than reason.

Thomas__.

seamus wrote: »

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And Crimea is probably the limit of his ambitions.

That makes me chuckle a little bit, because it sounds a lot like the things that poor Neville Chamberlain continually told the British parliament in the run up to WWII.

Putin grew up in the USSR. He was a fully integrated member of the Soviet military, and a highly loyal KGB agent of the Soviet Union.

It would be a mistake to assume that Putin desires anything less than the reintegration of former Soviet states into the Russian federation.

From his point of view, these are Russian territories that have been stolen - they were Russian when he was born and through his entire childhood and early adulthood.

To say that his ambitions "probably" end at Crimea sounds more like blind hope than reason.

That is just partly right because the Crimea was 'tranferred' by Krushev to the Ukraine in 1954

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_transfer_of_Crimea

As for the main part of your post, I agree with you.

Mumha

lifeandtimes wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ireland-is-now-a-fullyfledged-participant-in-modern-cold-war-as-varadkar-says-we-cant-be-neutral-36751533.html

"Varadkar says we can't be neutral in a cold war"

Really don't think that's his f**king call to make to be honest

Its the Irish people's to make.

Words like that will leave us open to retaliation

Putin ordered a coordinated attack on western democracies since around 2012, how do you know we haven't already been under attack by the Russians, through the funding of groups and through (what we now know about their hacking/bot capability) social media ?

Varadkar is clearly in possession of intel that you and I aren't.

Mumha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Does anybody really honk Putin lost the election? That he doesn’t have the support of most of the population?

We'll never know until there are free and fair elections in Russia. Intimidating or forcing trumped up convictions against your opponents, so they are barred from running against Putin, tends to negate any confidence in the Russian electoral process.

Mumha

seamus wrote: »

That makes me chuckle a little bit, because it sounds a lot like the things that poor Neville Chamberlain continually told the British parliament in the run up to WWII.

Putin grew up in the USSR. He was a fully integrated member of the Soviet military, and a highly loyal KGB agent of the Soviet Union.

It would be a mistake to assume that Putin desires anything less than the reintegration of former Soviet states into the Russian federation.

From his point of view, these are Russian territories that have been stolen - they were Russian when he was born and through his entire childhood and early adulthood.

To say that his ambitions "probably" end at Crimea sounds more like blind hope than reason.

Indeed. Peace in our time.....

mulbot

Mumha wrote: »

Putin ordered a coordinated attack on western democracies since around 2012, how do you know we haven't already been under attack by the Russians, through the funding of groups and through (what we now know about their hacking/bot capability) social media ?

Varadkar is clearly in possession of intel that you and I aren't.

What do we know about their capabilities? It's clearly showing now that fiddling social media happened through Cambridge Analytica, which links through the Americans, not the Russians

garbo speaks

Absolutely ludicrous to expel the Russian diplomat over a matter that has zero to do with us, when at the same time we let every asylum seeker in unchecked. This government does nothing but bend the knee to our EU overlords.

Jacko753

Mumha wrote: »

Putin ordered a coordinated attack on western democracies since around 2012, how do you know we haven't already been under attack by the Russians, through the funding of groups and through (what we now know about their hacking/bot capability) social media ?

Varadkar is clearly in possession of intel that you and I aren't.

A few whispers from Theresa May most probably

Mumha

mulbot wrote: »

What do we know about their capabilities? It's clearly showing now that fiddling social media happened through Cambridge Analytica, which links through the Americans, not the Russians

yeah, yeah, sure sure.... :rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring

Mumha wrote: »

We'll never know until there are free and fair elections in Russia. Intimidating or forcing trumped up convictions against your opponents, so they are barred from running against Putin, tends to negate any confidence in the Russian electoral process.

This has already got debunked. There were 77 Russian candidates for Russian President, the ran two primaries and number was decreased to 9 candidates on election day. An unfair election there be only one candidate and just Putin.

Mumha

Jacko753 wrote: »

A few whispers from Theresa May most probably

Obviously he spoke with her, but the level of united response from all the other countries shows there's a lot more going on than what you are portraying.

Mumha

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This has already got debunked. There were 77 Russian candidates for Russian President, the ran two primaries and number was decreased to 9 candidates on election day. An unfair election there be only one candidate and just Putin.

Hahahahaha

Putin will win on 18 March because the system he created, politely known as “managed democracy”, removes all elements of surprise. His most credible challenger, Alexei Navalny (who in any case did not expect to win), has been banned from participation on specious legal grounds. Last month Navalny was arrested while urging an election boycott.

Putin’s control of Russia’s television outlets and other media means political opponents are virtually invisible, unless they are in court on a charge. By contrast, his own public appearances receive fawning blanket coverage.

There are no presidential debates, no unsanctioned opinion polls. Rival candidates do exist, but they resemble sparring partners whose task is to legitimise the process while helping the champ show off his best punches. They include Vladimir Zhirinovsky, a sort of ultra-nationalist Screaming Lord Sutch, and Pavel Grudinin, the Communist party’s candidate, who runs a privatised company called Lenin State Farm.

Ksenia Sobchak, a liberal, pro-gay rights former reality TV host, claims to offer an alternative to Putinism. But her wealthy establishment background has prompted the dismissive nickname “Russia’s Paris Hilton”. When Sobchak recently visited Grozny, stronghold of the Chechen warlord and Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov, police harassed her and gangs of men shouted that she resembled a horse.

Political theatre aside, Putin, projecting strength and continuity, knows he will win by a landslide. The fix is in. No other result is imaginable – or allowable. His main concern, analysts say, is achieving a high turnout and a big victory margin, surpassing the 64% he gained six years ago. He also wants an ostensibly free and fair election to boost his international credibility – and no repeat of the 2012 street protests.

In other words, Putin wants it both ways: a genuine electoral contest and a no-risk, hands-down victory. And so far, he seems to be succeeding.

If this rigged election were being held in Iran or Zimbabwe or Venezuela, screams of tweeted outrage would issue daily from the White House. But Donald Trump is strangely silent. Why? Everybody knows he has a soft spot for the hard man in the Kremlin. There are numerous personal, business and political crossovers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/08/vladimir-putin-russian-election-iran-zimbabwe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7uXZQsyHI

Cheerful Spring

Mumha wrote: »

Hahahahaha



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/08/vladimir-putin-russian-election-iran-zimbabwe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7uXZQsyHI

None of the candidates has any links to Putin. Putin runs as an independent he has no links to any party. Guardian article trying to even say there? Alexei Navalny is a convicted felon he was prosecuted many years before this Russian election.Russia law stops him running for election. And he is a shady character he is a racist and a nationalist.This part of the course though we celebrate jihadists and neo-fascists.

Mumha

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

None of the candidates has any links to Putin. Putin runs as an independent he has no links to any party. Guardian article trying to even say there? Alexei Navalny is a convicted felon he was prosecuted many years before this Russian election.Russia law stops him running for election. And he is a shady character he is a racist and a nationalist.This part of the course though we celebrate jihadists and neo-fascists.

Hahahaha sure comrade, sure.

mulbot

Mumha wrote: »

yeah, yeah, sure sure.... :rolleyes:

Stop with the intellectual responses please

Mumha

mulbot wrote: »

Stop with the intellectual responses please

Da.

tayto lover

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

None of the candidates has any links to Putin. Putin runs as an independent he has no links to any party. Guardian article trying to even say there? Alexei Navalny is a convicted felon he was prosecuted many years before this Russian election.Russia law stops him running for election. And he is a shady character he is a racist and a nationalist.This part of the course though we celebrate jihadists and neo-fascists.

Is it any different than being forced to repeat vote in Referendums until we get what our masters want?

lifeandtimes

tayto lover wrote: »

Is it any different than being forced to repeat vote in Referendums until we get what our masters want?

Lisbon all over again

Billy86

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The Russian people had a look at EU/US sponsored "democracy" in action next door in Ukraine.

A real close look. So close in fact, that they put their own puppet in there and began imprisoning Ukrainian politicians.

Gotta love that sense of Russian justice.

Billy86

mulbot wrote: »

What do we know about their capabilities? It's clearly showing now that fiddling social media happened through Cambridge Analytica, which links through the Americans, not the Russians

For a start, it came out in the last few weeks that the American/Clinton/DNC email hacks were all done from GRU HQ where the 'Guccifer 2.0' hacker worked. Republicans are on record bragging about their party members being 'on Putins payroll' also.

Then you've got the St. Petersburg ran Internet Research Agency who the US investigation into Russia has indicted, along with 13 other Russians, which included infiltrating American politics and filtering in Russian money. In fact, the entire US intelligence community agrees Russian meddled in their elections, and both the Dutch and British intelligence communities (who have been doing a lot of looking into Russia) do as well.

The CEO of Reddit has come out and said they have had to delete a lot of Russian propaganda accounts, while Twitter had to delete many more and over 200,000 tweets (all of which can be seen here).

And again, that's just for a start.

Creol1

Billy86 wrote: »

A real close look. So close in fact, that they put their own puppet in there and began imprisoning Ukrainian politicians.

Gotta love that sense of Russian justice.

Yanukovych wasn't a puppet by any means; he hiked the rent Russia paid for use of Ukranian ports to extortionate levels. Also, the Ukranian people, not the Russians, put Yanukovych in office by free and fair democratic election.

Gatling

Creol1 wrote: »

Yanukovych wasn't a puppet by any means; he hiked the rent Russia paid for use of Ukranian ports to extortionate levels. Also, the Ukranian people, not the Russians, put Yanukovych in office by free and fair democratic election.

That's a new one ,

We haven't heard that before


Viktor Yanukovych was putins puppet and gangster nothing more and nothing less

Billy86

Creol1 wrote: »

Yanukovych wasn't a puppet by any means; he hiked the rent Russia paid for use of Ukranian ports to extortionate levels. Also, the Ukranian people, not the Russians, put Yanukovych in office by free and fair democratic election.

You're talking about the same guy who was known to be owned by Russian oligarchs, who had the same shady connections as Trump to Putin via Paul Manafort, who was the head of an explicitly pro-Russian party, who only a few weeks into office went about extending Russia's much-needed access to the Black Sea via Crimea (can you point to the rent increase please? I'm not getting much of that on Google), who was quickly escorted out and given exile in Russia after being overthrown, and who is currently on trial quite literally for treason in helping Russia carry out an attack on Ukraine (which he himself is not attending as Russia refuses to release him to Ukraine)?

Yeah, I think it's fair to say he was a puppet.

Cheerful Spring

Billy86 wrote: »

For a start, it came out in the last few weeks that the American/Clinton/DNC email hacks were all done from GRU HQ where the 'Guccifer 2.0' hacker worked. Republicans are on record bragging about their party members being 'on Putins payroll' also.

Then you've got the St. Petersburg ran Internet Research Agency who the US investigation into Russia has indicted, along with 13 other Russians, which included infiltrating American politics and filtering in Russian money. In fact, the entire US intelligence community agrees Russian meddled in their elections, and both the Dutch and British intelligence communities (who have been doing a lot of looking into Russia) do as well.

The CEO of Reddit has come out and said they have had to delete a lot of Russian propaganda accounts, while Twitter had to delete many more and over 200,000 tweets (all of which can be seen here).

And again, that's just for a start.

'Guccifer 2.0 is a fake person. Anyone who believes the Russian best cyber squad forget to turn on a VPN is a fool.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

'Guccifer 2.0 is a fake

Is that only an opinion

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Is that only an opinion

Yes because we know who Guccifer 2 is he is a Romanian national.

The claim he was Russian GRU agent came from US intelligence agencies. You can't believe a word they say has never independently verified.