Do You See An African/Asian Team Ever Winning The World Cup?

FCIM

Whilst playing Football Manager, I was offered the Senegalese job which I took and managed to win the African Cup of Nations and the World Cup.

It got me thinking, do you think an African/Asian side will ever win the World Cup and why/why not?

Personally, I'd love to see it happen, particularly in the case of an African team as I have a huge soft spot for some African teams (Morocco, Tunisia, Senegal among others) but I just don't see it happening for an African nation as I think the game has just gone far too professional and the money involved even in national team set-ups probably means they're at a big disadvantage.

For an Asian team I think the money issue is less of a problem, certainly if you look at countries like Japan, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, possibly even Iran and China are definitely at least attempting to build something though it's questionable as to whether football is popular enough there for it to happen. The problem with Asian teams is that they don't have the technical ability nor the physical strength on a broad enough scale to do it, at least as I see it.

What do you think?

Mars Bar

Well, technically Japan has won a World Cup. They won the women's tournament in 2011

dfx-

Africa are better placed at the minute, but none of their sides have enough of a complete package to compete with the big European sides.

You'd need a combined XI of the attributes of the dour North sides like Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria with the individualism and creativity of the like of Senegal, Ghana and Ivory Coast.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

The coaching and money at grassroots level isn't there in the African nations, although they have a massive amount of talent, as well as players who are athletically miles ahead of the rest. It's the technical and tactical side of things that seem to let them down in the end.

It's no coincidence. Look at the likes of Iceland who have a tiny pick, or Netherlands who have been highly successful over the years with a relatively small population - huge sums of money pumped in to coaching and facilities for children. The young lads in Europe with dedicated coaches, proper equipment and playing on 3G pitches have a massive head start on the young lad in Africa running around a dust bowl in his bare feet kicking a piece of plastic.

Gbear

60% of the world lives in Asia. Numbers will surely start to tell at some point.

A big issue for them (if you can call it that), is the lack of a colonial past to the same degree and the lack of a conduit into European football that that provides for Africa.

Immigrant footballers will gravitate from Africa into Europe, and African immigrants who become footballers in Europe have that environment to develop.
Asians don't have that.

The biggest population of Asian immigrants in Europe are, I would imagine, from the Indian subcontinent, so that might offer some possibilities, but per capita they're bafflingly terrible at sports.

The Middle East probably has the next most but that's in such a mess at the moment, there probably isn't the stability to support it.

South Korea and Japan have been disappointing of late. Japan is going from strength to strength in rugby, so maybe that's siphoning off enthusiasm and resources.

There definitely seems to be a much stronger culture in Africa of playing football, and other than a few enclaves of cricket, athletics and rugby, football must be overwhelmingly the main sport throughout the continent. It'll be a long time before they have the resources or corruption drops to Western football association levels.

Guy:Incognito

Gbear wrote: »

60% of the world lives in Asia. Numbers will surely start to tell at some point.
.

Between China and India there's what, 2 billion people. Neither are worth a **** in footballing terms.

FCIM

Mars Bar wrote: »

Well, technically Japan has won a World Cup. They won the women's tournament in 2011

Didn't know that but, whilst I'm not attempting to say the women's game isn't worthy of attention and that that wasn't a significant achievement, I'm looking exclusively at the World Cup for the adult national first teams .

dfx- wrote: »

Africa are better placed at the minute, but none of their sides have enough of a complete package to compete with the big European sides.

You'd need a combined XI of the attributes of the dour North sides like Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria with the individualism and creativity of the like of Senegal, Ghana and Ivory Coast.

I'd wonder whether a benefactor would ever step in and offer to pay the wages of a Mourinho or Guardiola with the likes of Senegal, Ghana or the Ivory Coast. Knowing that tactical astuteness lets those sides down but also knowing the recognition being the first African as well as the first non-European/South American team to win it would bring.

I suspect China have the potential to do it from an Asian point-of-view. They have 1.4 billion people so there has to be 22 good footballers there somewhere. Football was run extremely badly in China until recent years, perhaps why they have never achieved anything even remotely significant. Now money is being pumped into football there, the popularity is rising and they have introduced rules to protect their own players, for example, the goalkeepers' rule. The money is spread in enough pockets that the league is becoming ever more competitive and the introduction of top players, albeit usually near the end of their career, means Chinese players are being exposed to better players.

The thing I could see stunting their growth is a bit like the reverse of the situation at PSG. PSG have more money than the rest of the French league put together, but although that means they (usually) romp home domestically, they're not facing good enough quality opposition regularly enough to make a real mark on the Champions League. With China, they will potentially have a fairly solid league in a few years time but the continental competitions their top sides can play in are unattractive and weak and mean the bulk of their players are not being exposed to the type of player who is dominating in Europe and arguably South America.

Trigger

The democratic people’s Republic of Korea win it every year. With the esteemed leader scoring a double hat trick in every game

FCIM

astradave wrote: »

The democratic people’s Republic of Korea win it every year. With the esteemed leader scoring a double hat trick in every game

The DPRK always keeps a clean sheet too with goalkeeper and eternal President Kim Il-Sung making saves that Lev Yashin, Neville Southall, Gigi Buffon, Peter Schmeichel and Gordon Banks could only dream of!

FCIM

Gbear wrote: »

60% of the world lives in Asia. Numbers will surely start to tell at some point.

A big issue for them (if you can call it that), is the lack of a colonial past to the same degree and the lack of a conduit into European football that that provides for Africa.

Immigrant footballers will gravitate from Africa into Europe, and African immigrants who become footballers in Europe have that environment to develop.
Asians don't have that.

The biggest population of Asian immigrants in Europe are, I would imagine, from the Indian subcontinent, so that might offer some possibilities, but per capita they're bafflingly terrible at sports.

The Middle East probably has the next most but that's in such a mess at the moment, there probably isn't the stability to support it.

South Korea and Japan have been disappointing of late. Japan is going from strength to strength in rugby, so maybe that's siphoning off enthusiasm and resources.

There definitely seems to be a much stronger culture in Africa of playing football, and other than a few enclaves of cricket, athletics and rugby, football must be overwhelmingly the main sport throughout the continent. It'll be a long time before they have the resources or corruption drops to Western football association levels.

It's not so much that they're terrible, they just tend to play other sports. Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka are all strong in cricketing terms. Similarly, their own colonial histories means their links are much stronger with cricket.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Between China and India there's what, 2 billion people. Neither are worth a **** in footballing terms.

The Chinese football set-up was extremely poor until recently, India tends to focus far more on cricket than football.

LuckyLloyd

Yes. It's just a matter of when.

2014 (South America): two African teams in round of 16
2010 (Africa): one African team in QF (lost on pens)
2006 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
2002 (Asia): one Asian team in SF
1998 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
1994 (North America): one African team in round of 16
1990 (Europe): one African team in QF (lost in extra time)

Eventually one of those QF or SF teams will get touched by the sporting gods and stumble through another two knockout matches with a large slice of luck. It's no major surprise that their best two runs have come in African and Asian world cups respectively. Teams from the traditional powers will be very uncomfortable in Russia and Qatar so these represent opportunities nearly as good as 2002 and 2010 for some outlier results.

Jimbob1977

I never thought I'd see Leicester City win the Premier League.

Asian...... not a chance

African..... possible. At the moment, a semi-final is the best they could hope for.

dfx-

FCIM wrote: »

I'd wonder whether a benefactor would ever step in and offer to pay the wages of a Mourinho or Guardiola with the likes of Senegal, Ghana or the Ivory Coast. Knowing that tactical astuteness lets those sides down but also knowing the recognition being the first African as well as the first non-European/South American team to win it would bring.

I think the likes of Conte and Mourinho would self combust at the indiscipline and Guardiola would tear his hair out at the lack of control. Too many sides have gone down the road of unheard of European managers..

It's much more likely for the likes of Egypt who are hugely organised and defensive to then strike with a Salah type to get them deep in the tournament and win on penalties here and there. Algeria were decent from memory in 2014.

No Asian side have the defensive capability of the North African sides.

Richard Hillman

It will happen eventually. Egypt are my dark horse's for this world cup. Traditionally brilliant tournament football teams. It was just one of sports greatest anomalies that they haven't qualified since 1990

The European sides are becoming increasingly erratic. Traditionals like Italy and Netherlands not even qualifying. France can be a lottery at times, England consistently going backwards. Germany, Spain and Portugal seem to be unable to produce a viable Centre-Forward option. What's left, Belgium?


Then in South America, Brazil are mentally frail. With Argentina always seeming to find a fence to fall over and they barely qualified.

Egypt lads

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes. It's just a matter of when.

2014 (South America): two African teams in round of 16
2010 (Africa): one African team in QF (lost on pens)
2006 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
2002 (Asia): one Asian team in SF
1998 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
1994 (North America): one African team in round of 16
1990 (Europe): one African team in QF (lost in extra time)

Eventually one of those QF or SF teams will get touched by the sporting gods and stumble through another two knockout matches with a large slice of luck. It's no major surprise that their best two runs have come in African and Asian world cups respectively. Teams from the traditional powers will be very uncomfortable in Russia and Qatar so these represent opportunities nearly as good as 2002 and 2010 for some outlier results.

That's worse than I thought tbh. It took the ahem, sporting gods giving a lot of help for the only time there's been an Asian team in the semi final. Neither continent seems to be progressing a huge amount either.
Obviously if it keeps going the chance of it happening approaches 1 but I see nothing to suggest it'll happen in the next 5 tournaments.

I remember the thinking was the African were physically imposing but never had the tactical nous to go far. So we all delighted in the efforts of the Cameroon side in the 1990 WC, but of course they were doomed to failure ultimately.

Looking back, it was completely racist...

Oranage2

Soccer just isn't that popular in Asian, of course it has popularity but the appeal to be a professional player is not the same.

Poor kids aren't kicking a ball around 24/7.

Most kids are playing basketball/cricket in their free time.

Most parents push their kids to do no contact past times like dancing, music and extra math/language classes.

Promising athletic kids are pushed into more Olympic sports.

In terms of Africa, yes they have the hunger but in many countries these kids are starving, also poor resources and infrastructure. This is why we see many African immigrants playing for their adopted countries

Gbear

FCIM wrote: »

It's not so much that they're terrible, they just tend to play other sports. Pakistan, India and Sri Lanka are all strong in cricketing terms. Similarly, their own colonial histories means their links are much stronger with cricket.



The Chinese football set-up was extremely poor until recently, India tends to focus far more on cricket than football.

The thing is, they're not even that good at cricket. It's an even more niche sport than Rugby in terms of the numbers of nations that play it to a decent standard but even so they haven't won a huge number of championships.

The All Blacks are fanastic but their adult playing population is in the 10's of thousands (which is enormous for a country their size but still tiny). India's Cricket playing population must be in the millions.

Perhaps their performance at sport will ramp up dramatically as they become wealthier, and their league is getting a lot of money poured into it, but per capita they must be the weakest country in the world for sport.

FCIM

Gbear wrote: »

The thing is, they're not even that good at cricket. It's an even more niche sport than Rugby in terms of the numbers of nations that play it to a decent standard but even so they haven't won a huge number of championships.

The All Blacks are fanastic but their adult playing population is in the 10's of thousands (which is enormous for a country their size but still tiny). India's Cricket playing population must be in the millions.

Perhaps their performance at sport will ramp up dramatically as they become wealthier, and their league is getting a lot of money poured into it, but per capita they must be the weakest country in the world for sport.

Tier 1 rugby nations: Wales, Ireland, Scotland, England, France, Italy, Argentina, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia (10, though only 9 can realistically hope to beat the others with any kind of regularity).

Test cricket nations: England, Australia, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, West Indies, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan (11, though only 8 or 9 can hope to beat the others with any kind of regularity).

I'd say both sports are as niche as each other. India have won the Cricket World Cup twice (only Australia, with five, have ever won it more and only the West Indies have also won it twice), making them broadly equal to South Africa and Australia in rugby. Pakistan have won it once making them roughly equal to England in rugby. Sri Lanka have won it once, again similar to England in rugby. India are the top ODI side at the moment which is equal to New Zealand in rugby. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are sixth, seventh and eighth which would arguably make them equivalent to South Africa, Wales and France. Pakistan are top, India third, Sri Lanka eighth and Bangladesh tenth in T20, which would place them with New Zealand, England, France and Fiji (but above Italy) in rugby. In test cricket, which traditional cricket fans would tell you is the measurement they truly consider, India are first, Sri Lanka sixth, Pakistan seventh and Bangladesh ninth. Essentially New Zealand, South Africa, Wales and Argentina. Add to that that India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have all won the T20 World Cup (the only team to have won it twice is the West Indies). They really are quite successful at cricket and that's a massive reason why they will quite probably never be particularly successful at football. Also, in much of those countries it is swelteringly hot for most of the year probably making football a bit of a no no, though Brazilians, Argentineans and Uruguayans might say something different about that. Maybe an arguable climatic difference is it p!sses rain for a certain part of the year so it might be easy to come across more suitable cricket playing surfaces whereas football can be pretty comfortable played anywhere.

Many of the Middle Eastern countries are football crazy but as somebody said, the instability there doesn't help. Neither does the Saudi policy of Saudis only being allowed to play in Saudi Arabia and so gaining no or very minimal exposure to better players.

irishman86

FCIM wrote: »

Tier 1 rugby nations: Wales, Ireland, Scotland, England, France, Italy, Argentina, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia (10, though only 9 can realistically hope to beat the others with any kind of regularity).

Test cricket nations: England, Australia, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, West Indies, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan (11, though only 8 or 9 can hope to beat the others with any kind of regularity).

I'd say both sports are as niche as each other. India have won the Cricket World Cup twice (only Australia, with five, have ever won it more and only the West Indies have also won it twice), making them broadly equal to South Africa and Australia in rugby. Pakistan have won it once making them roughly equal to England in rugby. Sri Lanka have won it once, again similar to England in rugby. India are the top ODI side at the moment which is equal to New Zealand in rugby. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are sixth, seventh and eighth which would arguably make them equivalent to South Africa, Wales and France. Pakistan are top, India third, Sri Lanka eighth and Bangladesh tenth in T20, which would place them with New Zealand, England, France and Fiji (but above Italy) in rugby. In test cricket, which traditional cricket fans would tell you is the measurement they truly consider, India are first, Sri Lanka sixth, Pakistan seventh and Bangladesh ninth. Essentially New Zealand, South Africa, Wales and Argentina. Add to that that India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have all won the T20 World Cup (the only team to have won it twice is the West Indies). They really are quite successful at cricket and that's a massive reason why they will quite probably never be particularly successful at football. Also, in much of those countries it is swelteringly hot for most of the year probably making football a bit of a no no, though Brazilians, Argentineans and Uruguayans might say something different about that. Maybe an arguable climatic difference is it p!sses rain for a certain part of the year so it might be easy to come across more suitable cricket playing surfaces whereas football can be pretty comfortable played anywhere.

Many of the Middle Eastern countries are football crazy but as somebody said, the instability there doesn't help. Neither does the Saudi policy of Saudis only being allowed to play in Saudi Arabia and so gaining no or very minimal exposure to better players.

Do you mean Saudi's only play in Saudi Arabia or that only Saudis can play in Saudi Arabia. Because countless South Americans play in Saudi
The Saudis tend to stay in Saudi Arabia due to the high wages they get its similar to Mexico where they players earn higher wages than they would in europe

FCIM

irishman86 wrote: »

Do you mean Saudi's only play in Saudi Arabia or that only Saudis can play in Saudi Arabia. Because countless South Americans play in Saudi
The Saudis tend to stay in Saudi Arabia due to the high wages they get its similar to Mexico where they players earn higher wages than they would in europe

As far as I am aware, Saudi players are not allowed by their government to play for clubs outside Saudi Arabia. Maybe I'm completely wrong but I was under that impression.

CM/FM isn't Gospel (or Qu'ran ) when it comes to everything in the football world but it usually isn't as badly researched as to make a gaffe like this so I'd say it's reasonable to assume it is either the case or was at some point.

Mars Bar

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It will happen eventually. Egypt are my dark horse's for this world cup. Traditionally brilliant tournament football teams. It was just one of sports greatest anomalies that they haven't qualified since 1990

The European sides are becoming increasingly erratic. Traditionals like Italy and Netherlands not even qualifying. France can be a lottery at times, England consistently going backwards. Germany, Spain and Portugal seem to be unable to produce a viable Centre-Forward option. What's left, Belgium?


Then in South America, Brazil are mentally frail. With Argentina always seeming to find a fence to fall over and they barely qualified.

Egypt lads

I hope to **** Egypt never win it. I had teams play against Egyptian academies and they were dispicable. I also had the misfortune of watching Egyptian football on the only sports channel I had access to and their behaviour is shameful. You think diving is bad in Spain or England? Egypt is a whole other level. The lack of sportsmanship was unbelievable.

Ultimate Seduction

Was sure Ghana would win it in 2010 only for Luis Suarez cheating. What a squad that was. Ivory coast too. African football seems to be on the decline again though. The mid to late noughties was the golden age I think.

Kimbot

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I never thought I'd see Leicester City win the Premier League.

Asian...... not a chance

African..... possible. At the moment, a semi-final is the best they could hope for.

Well in fairness I wouldn't give Leicester a chance in the Asian either :P

But yeah Greece and the euros show it's possible

Skylinehead

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It will happen eventually. Egypt are my dark horse's for this world cup. Traditionally brilliant tournament football teams. It was just one of sports greatest anomalies that they haven't qualified since 1990

The European sides are becoming increasingly erratic. Traditionals like Italy and Netherlands not even qualifying. France can be a lottery at times, England consistently going backwards. Germany, Spain and Portugal seem to be unable to produce a viable Centre-Forward option. What's left, Belgium?


Then in South America, Brazil are mentally frail. With Argentina always seeming to find a fence to fall over and they barely qualified.

Egypt lads

Timo Werner will be that option for Germany. Although they won it last time out without a proper centre forward, so maybe they don't need one.

charolais0153

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It will happen eventually. Egypt are my dark horse's for this world cup. Traditionally brilliant tournament football teams. It was just one of sports greatest anomalies that they haven't qualified since 1990

The European sides are becoming increasingly erratic. Traditionals like Italy and Netherlands not even qualifying. France can be a lottery at times, England consistently going backwards. Germany, Spain and Portugal seem to be unable to produce a viable Centre-Forward option. What's left, Belgium?


Then in South America, Brazil are mentally frail. With Argentina always seeming to find a fence to fall over and they barely qualified.

Egypt lads

Portugal have one of tge greatest goalscorers of all time

FCIM

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Was sure Ghana would win it in 2010 only for Luis Suarez cheating. What a squad that was. Ivory coast too. African football seems to be on the decline again though. The mid to late noughties was the golden age I think.

I was surprised the Ivory Coast didn't do more than they did. They had some serious players at one time.

irishman86

FCIM wrote: »

As far as I am aware, Saudi players are not allowed by their government to play for clubs outside Saudi Arabia. Maybe I'm completely wrong but I was under that impression.

CM/FM isn't Gospel (or Qu'ran ) when it comes to everything in the football world but it usually isn't as badly researched as to make a gaffe like this so I'd say it's reasonable to assume it is either the case or was at some point.

Who am i to argue with FM :pac:
Didnt they have a striker for Wolverhampton around that time

FCIM

irishman86 wrote: »

Who am i to argue with FM :pac:
Didnt they have a striker for Wolverhampton around that time

As I said FM/CM isn't Gospel but it has always been known for being well researched.

Some Irish lad I think yeah.

Though I play it with the October 17 update so he's retired isn't he?

J Mysterio

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Between China and India there's what, 2 billion people. Neither are worth a **** in footballing terms.

lol, eloquently put.

As to the OP, I think it's certainly possible, anything is possible, particularly in sport. Unlikely though.

Stereotyping a bit, but the Asian teams tend to never quit and work really hard as a unit. They are fast and unrelenting, and that can be uncomfortable to play against.

South Korea did really well in 2002, finishing 4th. They really took people by surprise. They didn't really have ang individual great talents - in fact they all seemed to be of a similar level - but they all worked their asses off and swarmed all over teams. They did ok in 2006, finishing third in a tough group. Better again in 2010, qualifying to the Round of 16, but died a death in 2014.

Japan have been dissapointing to be fair, though Football doesnt seem to be to big there. They seem to produce a few really good players, like Nakata or Honda, but never have enough to make a decent team.

African teams are often powerful and athletic, though prone to lapses in concentration and poor management

Algeria did ok in 2014, getting to final R16 and losing to Germany 2-1. They had a poor 2010.

Ghana are decent. Powerful and with flair and unpredictability. Knocked out to Brazil in R16 in 2006 and got to 1/4 finals in 2010.

Ivory Coast should have done better in recent years and have had some very good players with pretty good overall squads. Management and organisation seems to let them down.

osarusan

I think Asian teams just won't have the physical strength.

Africa has produced some good squads of players, but I don't think the qualifying stage is enough of a test for them. A lot of the time, they look like they haven't become battled-hardened enough.

Ultimate Seduction

osarusan wrote: »

I think Asian teams just won't have the physical strength.

Africa has produced some good squads of players, but I don't think the qualifying stage is enough of a test for them. A lot of the time, they look like they haven't become battled-hardened enough.

Thought we were gone past the days of "they're not big enough" or 'not strong enough".

Spain and Barcelona showed that to be rubbish I thought?

FCIM

osarusan wrote: »

I think Asian teams just won't have the physical strength.

Africa has produced some good squads of players, but I don't think the qualifying stage is enough of a test for them. A lot of the time, they look like they haven't become battled-hardened enough.

You make a very strong point. African qualifying is very weak in fairness. Usually there is one stand-out team in each group, at most it's a two horse race with the others being a long way behind. As per Asia, I wonder whether Iran could ever build anything because it is an absolutely football mad country and they're not typically physically as small as say the Japanese.

osarusan

FCIM wrote: »

As per Asia, I wonder whether Iran could ever build anything because it is an absolutely football mad country and they're not typically physically as small as say the Japanese.

Actually that's a fair point, when I mentioned physical strength, I was thinking about Korean or Japanese teams that can be very skillful, but simply get outmuscled too easily.

But teams like Iran seem to be heading towards the other end of the scale - physically solid but fairly limited in terms of skill.

And again, the qualifying stage is too easy for the decent Asian teams.

FCIM

osarusan wrote: »

Actually that's a fair point, when I mentioned physical strength, I was thinking about Korean or Japanese teams that can be very skillful, but simply get outmuscled too easily.

But teams like Iran seem to be heading towards the other end of the scale - physically solid but fairly limited in terms of skill.

And again, the qualifying stage is too easy for the decent Asian teams.

I agree on that too. CONMEBOL and UEFA are simply light years ahead in terms of competition and quality. Even CONCACAF is comfortably more difficult than AFC and CAF because Mexico, Costa Rica and the USA, though they haven't qualified this time, are usually fairly solid. I used to think the actual breakthrough team in terms of a non-European/South American team winning the World Cup would be Mexico whilst everyone had their eyes on the African teams but they seem to have gone downhill whilst still, I would believe, being able to more than hold their own in Africa or Asia were they placed there.

Paully D

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes. It's just a matter of when.

2014 (South America): two African teams in round of 16
2010 (Africa): one African team in QF (lost on pens)
2006 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
2002 (Asia): one Asian team in SF
1998 (Europe): one African team in round of 16
1994 (North America): one African team in round of 16
1990 (Europe): one African team in QF (lost in extra time)

Eventually one of those QF or SF teams will get touched by the sporting gods and stumble through another two knockout matches with a large slice of luck. It's no major surprise that their best two runs have come in African and Asian world cups respectively. Teams from the traditional powers will be very uncomfortable in Russia and Qatar so these represent opportunities nearly as good as 2002 and 2010 for some outlier results.

The fix was well and truly in in 2002, mind.

FCIM

Paully D wrote: »

The fix was well and truly in in 2002, mind.

Byron Moreno!!!

Trigger

irishman86 wrote: »

Who am i to argue with FM :pac:
Didnt they have a striker for Wolverhampton around that time

Pretty sure they had a fella on loan but the permanent deal was blocked by the team. Pretty sure the government would have no say in it as it would come under FIFA’s rules for political/govt interference.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

As mebtioned earlier, I'm surprised Mexico hasn't come close to winning at some point. It is a huge football obsessed country.

Football isn't the biggest sport in Japan and it barely is in Korea, so they won't produce atalent pool as big as some other nations.

FCIM

astradave wrote: »

Pretty sure they had a fella on loan but the permanent deal was blocked by the team. Pretty sure the government would have no say in it as it would come under FIFA’s rules for political/govt interference.

There was a ban at one stage (not sure if it only applied to the World Cup squad) and though CM got the date wrong it was founded in reality.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2002/jun/09/worldcupfootball2002.sport28

titan18

FCIM wrote: »

There was a ban at one stage (not sure if it only applied to the World Cup squad) and though CM got the date wrong it was founded in reality.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2002/jun/09/worldcupfootball2002.sport28

Looking at their current side, there's guys playing in Spain, so it's not correct anyway atm.

pjohnson

titan18 wrote: »

Looking at their current side, there's guys playing in Spain, so it's not correct anyway atm.

Actually thats due to the Saudi's making the arrangement
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-spain-saudiarabia/villarreal-among-liga-clubs-to-sign-saudi-arabia-players-idUKKBN1FA14T

irishman86

astradave wrote: »

Pretty sure they had a fella on loan but the permanent deal was blocked by the team. Pretty sure the government would have no say in it as it would come under FIFA’s rules for political/govt interference.

I googled it and he was on loan but the team wouldnt allow the loan to be extended. They wanted a permanent loan but injuries is what ruined it rather than government

PhlegmyMoses

The central and West African teams suffer hugely because of their FAs. They have had some incredible players but in-fighting over player payments and corruption hampers them along the way.

Their grass roots seems to suffer from a similar affliction to Ireland and England as well, in that the focus is on bigger, faster, stronger and we don't see enough players whose sole contribution is technical. They have produced some of the world's best strikers like Eto'o, Drogba, Weah, Adebayor, Kanu etc, and some exceptional defensive midfielders and defenders like Essien, Oliseh, Kuffour, Bailly, Keita etc across a whole range of nations. All technically proficient in their own right, but I'm talking about a different type of player, like Xavi, Alonso, Scholes, Pirlo, Silva, Sneijder, Carrick, Kroos etc. The kind of player that knits the whole team together and makes everybody else play.

Closest I can think of from an African nation is Yaya Toure and he is the best ever african player imo. They start producing those types and one of them will win a world cup. Few goalkeepers wouldn't go amiss either.

fyfe79

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Thought we were gone past the days of "they're not big enough" or 'not strong enough".

Spain and Barcelona showed that to be rubbish I thought?

I don't remember people thinking Spanish players were too small? When they habitually blew it every second summer (up until 2008 of course), the thinking was usually that they were too complacent and maybe believing their own hype.

In any event, I'd imagine that the average Spaniard is still 2 or 3 inches taller than the average Asian, which in footballing terms can be quite important. I look at Mexico, whose players would be similar in height to Asian teams, and for all their fanatism and pedigree still haven't gone beyond the quarter-finals. They would be ahead of any Asian team, imo, and still haven't come close to lifting the big prize.

FCIM

fyfe79 wrote: »

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Thought we were gone past the days of "they're not big enough" or 'not strong enough".

Spain and Barcelona showed that to be rubbish I thought?

I don't remember people thinking Spanish players were too small? When they habitually blew it every second summer (up until 2008 of course), the thinking was usually that they were too complacent and maybe believing their own hype.

In any event, I'd imagine that the average Spaniard is still 2 or 3 inches taller than the average Asian, which in footballing terms can be quite important. I look at Mexico, whose players would be similar in height to Asian teams, and for all their fanatism and pedigree still haven't gone beyond the quarter-finals. They would be ahead of any Asian team, imo, and still haven't come close to lifting the big prize.

You can still be strong as an ox and short though; there is a general consensus, rightly or wrongly, in football that somebody can be too short, which is silly in my opinion because Messi was nearly overlooked because of it. Looking at Messi though, he's short but he's not weakly built which is something you could generalise about Japanese and Korean people when compared to Europeans and South Americans. What China could have to their advantage in the future, if they get their act together, is the country is so huge people from different parts of it generally have very different statures; I think in the south they tend to be smaller whilst in the north they're quite big.

irishman86

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The central and West African teams suffer hugely because of their FAs. They have had some incredible players but in-fighting over player payments and corruption hampers them along the way.

Their grass roots seems to suffer from a similar affliction to Ireland and England as well, in that the focus is on bigger, faster, stronger and we don't see enough players whose sole contribution is technical. They have produced some of the world's best strikers like Eto'o, Drogba, Weah, Adebayor, Kanu etc, and some exceptional defensive midfielders and defenders like Essien, Oliseh, Kuffour, Bailly, Keita etc across a whole range of nations. All technically proficient in their own right, but I'm talking about a different type of player, like Xavi, Alonso, Scholes, Pirlo, Silva, Sneijder, Carrick, Kroos etc. The kind of player that knits the whole team together and makes everybody else play.

Closest I can think of from an African nation is Yaya Toure and he is the best ever african player imo. They start producing those types and one of them will win a world cup. Few goalkeepers wouldn't go amiss either.

Wouldnt Jay Jay fit the bill
A superstar during his time, Mikel for Nigeria now is very underrated tbh
I disagree with you about Yaya, you mentioned the best in Weah

Ultimate Seduction

I don't think physical size means anything in football. It's just an English thing. Look at the greatest footballers of all time, maradonna, Messi, Pele, Cruyff, xavi, insista, Eusabio, all under 5"8. It's football not rugby, especially in today's almost non contact football it means nothing. even now, arguably the best player in England, kante, dominates midfield and he is tiny.

You might want your center backs to have a bit of hight but it's not a necessity.

irishman86

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I don't think physical size means anything in football. It's just an English thing. Look at the greatest footballers of all time, maradonna, Messi, Pele, Cruyff, xavi, insista, Eusabio, all under 5"8. It's football not rugby, especially in today's almost non contact football it means nothing. even now, arguably the best player in England, kante, dominates midfield and he is tiny.

You might want your center backs to have a bit of hight but it's not a necessity.

Even rugby the biggest guys arent always the best
Look at ROG, BOD for Ireland
Carter for NZ
People over rate the impact size has in every sport

MarkY91

It could happen. Theres always a chance of a freak seasons like Leicester or Greece in the euros.

They could be playing a big team who have an off day and make it through the rounds.

Ultimate Seduction

Even Ireland, a team which mostly plays with the ball in the sky, our best ever players, Robbie Keane , Roy, Duff, Houghton, not blessed with size.

Size isn't the reason Asian football isn't very good.