Teaching position asking for my leaving cert results.

Shoebox1926

Hi, sorry for the long TMI post but id really appreciate some help here. I'll be an NQT this June. Ive started applying to jobs and im registering with the teaching council. My problem is while applying for a job - filling out application, it asked for my leaving certificate results and subjects I did at leaving cert + level. When filling out teacher registration forms it said something about tc will send all my previous qualifications to board of education.

My issue is I have a really bad leaving cert. Basically as a teenager I was drinking, smoking, taking drugs. my parents were feckless and id had bad school experiences.. Teachers bringing me up to the board to do maths equations they knew I was struggling with and ridiculing me in front of the class, teachers not allowing us to go to the bathroom and almost wetting myself as a result, a teacher making me read out loud when I had a migraine, with tunnel vision the letters were disappearing off the page, I was reading slowly and she made a huge deal of it in front of the class, a group of girls would bully me in primary school every time the teacher left the class...I could go on all day, weve all had similar experiences but it left me unable to sit in a classroom without taking a panic attack - even now if im in a room with other people and feel like I cant leave I panic. Obviously at 17 I didn't know what panic attacks were and having feckless parents id no one to go to for help so I just dropped out. I sat my leaving cert anyway but i hadn't been to school in nearly a year and I took panic attacks in all my exams so didn't stay more than half an hour for some of them and the rest I just didn't show up for.
My mother also fought with the school to have me taken out of certain subjects like languages in first year because she felt I was too stupid (her words not mine) so im missing key subjects from my leaving cert like Irish.

Ive only got 90 points in my leaving cert. Obviously the teaching council, education board and potential employers dont know my background and nor do they care but my results from leaving cert are so bad im worried they'll effect my employment chances and effect me registering. Aswell as this my results through out my education are very up and down, I didnt really apply myself until my postgrad.. What can I put on the form?

spurious

Put 'not available'. If they want to ask more, they can.

Many people have degrees without having a Leaving and you could easily have a degree in your subject area without having done it for the Leaving.

If you choose to tell them your story at interview, that's your business.

The TC do little enough. I can be 100% sure they did not go scrabbling in the mists of time to dig up my LC results.

Shoebox1926

spurious wrote: »

Put 'not available'. If they want to ask more, they can.

Many people have degrees without having a Leaving and you could easily have a degree in your subject area without having done it for the Leaving.

If you choose to tell them your story at interview, that's your business.

The TC do little enough. I can be 100% sure they did not go scrabbling in the mists of time to dig up my LC results.

Thanks Spurious. Sound advice. My worry is they'll get the results some other way. I dont want to tell my story but feel I have to explain to them what happened. Otherwise theyre going to think im stupid or not capable - they may still think that after ive explained myself so either way its a very awkward situation.

spurious

You have your degree and your qualification, you're as stupid (or not) as anyone else applying.

The best teachers I worked with came through the adult education system, one having been told while at school she was 'too stupid to do the Leaving Cert.', which was why she left school early.

Some people should not be let near teaching (like whoever said that to her) but a person who has not had an easy path through the system is one who I think has a great deal to offer children who struggle themselves, for whatever reasons.

Cash_Q

Do you have a fetac equivalent or anything that supported your entry to college as a mature student?

Regardless if they find out your actual results or not, your recent teacher training is what counts. If anything it's a sign of strength and determination that you got qualified in spite of your difficult experiences.

Dog walker 1234

I think you would make a great teacher. You have overcome many obstacles and hardships and gone on to achieve your degree. Absolutely fantastic. Credit and respect due to you.

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

Put 'not available'.

Disagree strongly with this. Don’t lie on your form. First of all, it’s an obvious lie and secondly, if they ask, you’ll either have to come up with another lie or your poor leaving cert will come out anyway, plus the fact that you’ve lied on your form in the first place. That’s pretty terrible advice to be honest spurious.

Your leaving cert results shouldn’t count against you but they probably will in upper class schools and expensive private schools but, as others have already pointed out, in most schools, your less usual route into teaching might be seen as an advantage when dealing with students who are having a similar school experience to your own. Be honest about who you are and where you came from. We are the sum of our experiences, not our exam results and school managers know this.

r93kaey5p2izun

In my experience voluntary schools ask for LC results on applications more often than not. I've never been asked for them in an ETB application. This will keep coming up so you will need to make a decision about how to deal with it that you are comfortable with. I think honesty is best and would advise just putting them down and having a short statement ready about it if asked. The personal statement section of application forms may also give you an opportunity to outline how your experience has shaped you as a teacher.

I would caution you though not to go with a narrative of "we've all had similar experiences", as it's simply not true and may annoy many school managers. You had a bad run of things which is horrible but it's not true to generalise your experience as being the norm, anymore than it would be acceptable for others to assume everyone's schooldays were easy and straightforward based on their own.

spurious

It's none of their business what the OP's LC results are. Perhaps put 'not currently available' and if they really want them, make them ask for them and justify why they want them.

If they are asking for such irrelevant information, they may be using it to shortlist, so I wouldn't be giving them any ammo I don't have to.

If someone asked me for my LC results today, I would not have them to hand. I'd have to contact Athlone to root out an official copy, unless they wanted me to make them up - and I may as well make them up for all the relevance they have.

evolving_doors

Teaching council doesn't know your results. 100% garunteed. The DES/SEC would have to write to all teachers asking for permission to hand over their data to the teaching council. That's to much unnecessary paperwork.

Don't mention drugs... this involves a criminal element which is a no no. Even at that don't mention the words drinking/smoking. Maybe as a contrast mention any activities like sport etc.

If it gets to an interview explain it very briefly the struggle you went through but don't go on about it. Focus on your love for your subject and what aspects of educating interest you.
Once they start to hear a long life story they might get the sense that your not over it. Just say it's in the past and 'as you can see from my final teaching grade im well over it.'

Possibly get a reference from a college supervisor that knows you. Maybe tell them your past and then they will know that it isn't a 'normal run of the mill' reference.

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

It's none of their business what the OP's LC results are. Perhaps put 'not currently available' and if they really want them, make them ask for them and justify why they want them.

If they are asking for such irrelevant information, they may be using it to shortlist, so I wouldn't be giving them any ammo I don't have to.

If someone asked me for my LC results today, I would not have them to hand. I'd have to contact Athlone to root out an official copy, unless they wanted me to make them up - and I may as well make them up for all the relevance they have.

Oh come on, there are perfectly good reasons to ask for people’s leaving cert results. They might want to see what other subjects they might be able to add to fill up hours (it shouldn’t happen but it does), they might want to assign learning support classes and want to know what subjects they might be able to help weaker students with besides their own, they might simply want to see what kind of academic background the candidate has - they might even be looking for people with less traditional paths into teaching.

You say they might be looking for “ammo” for shortlisting. Surely, if this is the case, the first applications for the shredder are the ones than haven’t been filled out properly? With the ever increasing amount of paperwork expected of teachers these days, giving school managers the impression that you’re either hiding something or can’t fill out simple forms is not going to make your application more attractive.

As for not having your results to hand, I’ve never understood how people forget them so easily. It’s twenty years ago this year since I did my leaving cert and I can’t remember the last time I had to put the results on anything but I could still tell you exactly what I got in every subject off the top of my head, and junior cert results too for that matter. Then again, I also don’t understand how teachers don’t know their timetable off by heart by Christmas just by going to their classes every week. Do I have an exceptional memory or something?

evolving_doors

RealJohn wrote: »

Oh come on, there are perfectly good reasons to ask for people’s leaving cert results. They might want to see what other subjects they might be able to add to fill up hours (it shouldn’t happen but it does), they might want to assign learning support classes and want to know what subjects they might be able to help weaker students with besides their own, they might simply want to see what kind of academic background the candidate has - they might even be looking for people with less traditional paths into teaching.

You say they might be looking for “ammo” for shortlisting. Surely, if this is the case, the first applications for the shredder are the ones than haven’t been filled out properly? With the ever increasing amount of paperwork expected of teachers these days, giving school managers the impression that you’re either hiding something or can’t fill out simple forms is not going to make your application more attractive.

As for not having your results to hand I’ve never understood how people forget them so easily. It’s twenty years ago this year since I did my leaving cert and I can’t remember the last time I had to put the results on anything but I could still tell you exactly what I got in every subject off the top of my head, and junior cert results too for that matter. Then again, I also don’t understand how teachers don’t know their timetable off by heart by Christmas just by going to their classes every week. Do I have an exceptional memory or something?

Nope, some folk just have different...ahhh ....learning ....ways!

I don't remember my inter cert results. Kind of my leaving cert in most subjects.
Although I've an excellent sense of direction no matter where I am in the world.
But still a bit fuzzy on my timetable. I think it depends if you have a lot of similar classes which I do.

But yes I do know a few principals and the first thing they look at on the CV is the leaving cert results and go forward from there. When I started out a principal asked why I hadn't brought my leaving cert results with me along with the degree parchment etc. She said it was standard practice! Things have probably changed a bit now. But I suppose if you're in the field of education then education results are important to some.

Shoebox1926

Thanks everyone. I find it quite odd that theyre asking this tbh. In 12 years ive only been asked once for my leaving cert results and that was when I applied to a plc course 10 years ago.
Im thinking about leaving that section blank. I remember the points I got as theyre so embarrassing but I havnt a notion of what marks I got in each subject and wouldnt know where to start looking, especially at such short notice.
Another option is to lie and say I got B's and C's and pray they don't look into it.
If im honest though im feeling that I just shouldnt apply for the job at all. The thoughts of having to explain myself, I shouldnt have to justify my 17 year old self to anyone. Those experiences are very personal and not something I want to have to tell to people.

kittycati

I think you should just send them they barely look anyhow I’d say it’s just to check boxes . And even
If they do , so what ? You should be so very proud
of all your achievements and what a wonderful role model you will be to future students . It shows hard work and dedication pays off . It’s teachers that understand failures that can teach children how to overcome obstacles and you ll also have personal empathy to all the challenges out there .
Some teachers have only ever experienced success all their lives and have no concept of failures, challenges of learning and different learning styles and other environmental challenges students have to deal with .

ascophyllum

Well done on not letting a low-result Leaving Cert get in the way of your ambitions. I actually think this is quite a positive situation, the one type of Leaving Cert that many schools do not want is the 500+ achiever. This type of candidate will likely find it very hard to relate to the many many students who struggle with basics in their learning.
I would be very honest in the interview (leave out drinking/drugs from the story and personal accounts of teachers obviously) but definitely say that you found learning very dificult but you were determined to achieve a degree and help others learn. I think this would be a very advantageous talking point in an interview.

BTW nobody can have access to your results and nobody asks to see the bit of paper, sticking in a few Ds and Cs and a B won't be the end of the world and will benefit the students you'll teach someday.

kittycati

ascophyllum wrote: »

Well done on not letting a low-result Leaving Cert get in the way of your ambitions. I actually think this is quite a positive situation, the one type of Leaving Cert that many schools do not want is the 500+ achiever. This type of candidate will likely find it very hard to relate to the many many students who struggle with basics in their learning.
I would be very honest in the interview (leave out drinking/drugs from the story and personal accounts of teachers obviously) but definitely say that you found learning very dificult but you were determined to achieve a degree and help others learn. I think this would be a very advantageous talking point in an interview.

BTW nobody can have access to your results and nobody asks to see the bit of paper, sticking in a few Ds and Cs and a B won't be the end of the world and will benefit the students you'll teach someday.

Be careful of lies though you also sign a declaration and if caught out down the line for it could lose jobs etc because of it . I think your cv shows more of the person you are anyhow and how much effort you have put in through the years . Someone can get 600 points then fail at college .., it’s who you are now that matters

Dickie10

im in the same boat, just got a call from a school i did my first PME placement in to tell me they have 22 hrs going in geo and history. I am currently doing Droichead and teaching resource classes in the school I did my second placement in. I told the first school this but the DP was keen that I apply for their position anyway, she said the job will probably be there in June ayway and at least I would have an application in. I got on really well with the DP and principal and have a feeling they would like me to get the job and if not they may well give me hours from another more experienced teacher that gets the job within the school, which I would also be delighted with as i really loved teaching in that school. anyway they are looking for LC results on the application form. mine were a mixed bag , good geography, economics and english results some other average ones but an E in pass Maths. this was in 2001, so annoying to have to put down my poor LC results. i didnt do history in LC but got a 2;1 in degree and a 1;1 in geography degree also 2;1 in PME (HDIP). Just wondering what to put down ?

RealJohn

They have 22 hours in geography and history, subjects you have good degrees in. The fact that you weren’t or aren’t that good at maths shouldn’t really come into it.
Like I said before, I reckon it would create a far worse impression if you start leaving things out, than it does to be honest about your bad results.

Blaizes

Shoebox1926 wrote: »

Hi, sorry for the long TMI post but id really appreciate some help here. I'll be an NQT this June. Ive started applying to jobs and im registering with the teaching council. My problem is while applying for a job - filling out application, it asked for my leaving certificate results and subjects I did at leaving cert + level. When filling out teacher registration forms it said something about tc will send all my previous qualifications to board of education.

My issue is I have a really bad leaving cert. Basically as a teenager I was drinking, smoking, taking drugs. my parents were feckless and id had bad school experiences.. Teachers bringing me up to the board to do maths equations they knew I was struggling with and ridiculing me in front of the class, teachers not allowing us to go to the bathroom and almost wetting myself as a result, a teacher making me read out loud when I had a migraine, with tunnel vision the letters were disappearing off the page, I was reading slowly and she made a huge deal of it in front of the class, a group of girls would bully me in primary school every time the teacher left the class...I could go on all day, weve all had similar experiences but it left me unable to sit in a classroom without taking a panic attack - even now if im in a room with other people and feel like I cant leave I panic. Obviously at 17 I didn't know what panic attacks were and having feckless parents id no one to go to for help so I just dropped out. I sat my leaving cert anyway but i hadn't been to school in nearly a year and I took panic attacks in all my exams so didn't stay more than half an hour for some of them and the rest I just didn't show up for.
My mother also fought with the school to have me taken out of certain subjects like languages in first year because she felt I was too stupid (her words not mine) so im missing key subjects from my leaving cert like Irish.

Ive only got 90 points in my leaving cert. Obviously the teaching council, education board and potential employers dont know my background and nor do they care but my results from leaving cert are so bad im worried they'll effect my employment chances and effect me registering. Aswell as this my results through out my education are very up and down, I didnt really apply myself until my postgrad.. What can I put on the form?

The third line of your post - who are the teaching council sending your qualifications to and which ones? Do these include your Leaving Certificate? You seem concerned that you will not be able to to get TC registration because of your Leaving Cert. results.Are these results actually required now by the Teaching Council? I registered a long time ago but I didn't think they were ever required by the TC unless something has changed since then?

In relation to the Leaving Cert. results and this job application, you could always phone the school and ask if Leaving Certificate results are being used as part of short listing.Were it me I would like to know where I stood.

I submitted applications for two teaching jobs recently and was interviewed for both but Leaving Cert. results were not asked for on either application form so obviously it must vary from school to school.

I don't think you can leave out this section of the application form though or just throw in a few grades as someone suggested, because as someone else here said it could all come back to bite you.Best to be honest.

Dickie10

thats not my post but thanks anyway