Star Trek Discovery ***Season 2*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Slydice

Evade wrote: »

The Discovery comm badges use TNG style pips for rank and it just looks odd if that's not what the are.

I dunno. We've seen lights on space suits before.

I didn't know about the comm badge pips. Cool!
Confirmed here: https://trekmovie.com/2017/06/22/a-close-up-look-at-star-trek-discovery-uniforms-infographic/

Later in the trailer, we see Burnham has 3 pips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Cd7NKKvDc (2m03s)

Evade

Slydice wrote: »

I dunno. We've seen lights on space suits before.

It's not just that they're lights it's the specific shape and distance. It would be the same level of odd if the sleeves had a design that had two solid lines with a broken line in between around the cuff area.

_Kaiser_

Hmmm.. OK.

On the plus side,

- Pike is good... very good even. Far better than Georgiou. Looks like a good choice!

- The overall tone seems more in keeping with TOS and thankfully not a "Klingon" in sight!

- Production values are obviously still very high


Now the negatives...

- the humor is like someone read all the comments about the Orville, watched it and copy/pasted it ("we got this don't we ladies?", "power of math", and the sneeze at the end) - works there, but just strikes me as trying too hard here.

- The hidden/mysterious message plot seems lifted from Stargate Universe. I would have rather see that crew chase it TBH. There was a similar one in TNG too.

- Pre-TOS sensors can scan 30,000LY? They're going to explore 30,000LY? I'm sure Voyager could have used that tech. This is the problem with prequels supposedly set in the same universe. You either reset or screw up all you've established before.

- Not a fan of the soft-rock track in the trailer... it's not a bad song, but it reminds me too much of the Beyond trailer.

Who's the "I thought we were gonna die" (more Orville-style comic relief) actor? She looks familiar.

Overall I'd say it looks BETTER yes, and that line about "space and time" with the mysterious figure appearing sets it up for a full reset if deemed necessary (depending on how far they've shot), but it still feels "off" and unsure of what it's trying to be.

Evade

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Pre-TOS sensors can scan 30,000LY? They're going to explore 30,000LY? I'm sure Voyager could have used that tech. This is the problem with prequels supposedly set in the same universe. You either reset or screw up all you've established before.

I'm not usually one to defend STD but they could have detected a signal and traced it's origin to those stars. The DASH drive's ludicrous speed is still dumb and are they forgetting that using it incorrectly can destroy the multiverse?

Inviere

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not a fan of the soft-rock track in the trailer... it's not a bad song, but it reminds me too much of the Beyond trailer.

My thoughts exactly. I feel Star Trek and contemporary music don't generally gel well together, and the combination of both tends to have a cheapening effect overall.

The humour also reminds me of 'cinema humour', ie, you crack a smile the first time, but has absolute zero rewatchability in terms of ever being funny again.

Overall though, I'm hyped for it...it looks great!

TheValeyard

Trailer looks great.


I wouldn't worry about the music. I remember Voyager and Enterprise having modern music in some of their trailers. Look how they turned out. :P

pixelburp

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Hmmm.. OK.

On the plus side,

- Pike is good... very good even. Far better than Georgiou. Looks like a good choice!

Took a liking to Pike; it'll be an interesting situation to be in, because ignoring the Kelvinverse, he has only been in 2 episodes of Trek - and only one of those in any characterful way. So long as it doesn't step too much on the person we saw in The Cage, there's good scope to expand the character out.

- The overall tone seems more in keeping with TOS and thankfully not a "Klingon" in sight!

I'm not 100%, but I think the talking heads at Comic Con said that we will check in on the Klingons during season 2, but like I said I'm not sure and too lazy to dig out the article I thought I read it mentioned.

- Production values are obviously still very high

I think that's something worth mentioning actually; for all the issues with Season 1, the FX throughout were pretty fantastic, particularly loved the many exterior action shots of ships. The trailer looks to be keeping the quality level pretty high.

Discovery and The Expanse are setting the bar for TV-budget spaceship FX.

Who's the "I thought we were gonna die" (more Orville-style comic relief) actor? She looks familiar.

Overall I'd say it looks BETTER yes, and that line about "space and time" with the mysterious figure appearing sets it up for a full reset if deemed necessary (depending on how far they've shot), but it still feels "off" and unsure of what it's trying to be.

The actor is a stand-up comedian called Tig Notaro; tbh know nothing of her, though her routines have popped up on Netflix from time to time.

As for the mysterious figure: I mean, it's Spock, right? The convenient leave he has taken, we're told during the trailer, makes sure not too much Enterprise canon strays into Discovery, but if the trailer's insinuating Spock has some link with this phenomenon I suspect that's going to be the 'big shock!' moment of season 2. Zachary Quinto picking up a paycheque for a couple of episodes

Spear

The casting of Spock would generate some noise, but there's nothing so far. I'm curious as to what that implies.

Quinto is certainly happy to play Spock and be involved with Star Trek, he's doing a documentary about it, as well as the next Kelvinverse movie. It'd seem easy enough to cast him, and he'd seem willing, but there's nothing being said. But then again they've played games with casting info in the past.

fritzelly

He's doing 2 movies more and that's it, he's doing a tv documentary series that's got nothing to do with star trek tho he wasn't really great in it, bit wooden

Goodshape

fritzelly wrote: »

[Zachary Quinto] wasn't really great in it, bit wooden

I think that's him in everything tbh, including Star Trek . While it would be cool to see him play the role in Discovery, just for continuity's sake, I wouldn't be upset if they recast it.

Is it just me, or are Vulcan's very rarely portrayed convincingly outside of Leonard Nimoy and Mark Lenard?

Those guys have an effortless zen that almost nobody else seems to emulate correctly. Instead, outside of them, usually it's just slightly robotic affectations and furrowed brows, contemplating a thousand thoughts at a time.

Nimoy was stern but he was never robotic. Emotionless, but not grumpy or annoyed all the time. Just... stoic and zen. I'm not sure anyone else, including Quinto or Tim Russ, ever quite got that right.

The new Sarek too, who's fine and good enough, just seems a bit stoned maybe, with heavy eyelids and relaxed demeanour. None of the gravitas of, the quintessentially Vulcan, Mark Lenard.


Edit:: actually, Kirstie Alley in Wrath of Khan did a good Vulcan too. Her replacement in ST3 was rubbish though, and Kim Cattrall wasn't too much better (at being a Vulcan, specifically) in 6.

Inviere

Goodshape wrote: »

Is it just me, or are Vulcan's very rarely portrayed convincingly outside of Leonard Nimoy and Mark Lenard?

Tim Russ did a great job with Tuvok. The two you mention and himself are the stalwarts imo, most others hadn't got the effortless zen as you say, and other Vulcans were just plain scripted/acted wrongly (they slowly became emotional racists, instead of the logical zen masters we had come to know and love)

Sad Professor

I don't think it's a performance problem so much as the Vulcans were just re-conceived by Kurtzman et al as having more suppressed emotions/anger. All previous Vulcan actors based their performance on Nimoy and were working off scripts that stayed true to his interpretation, where as all the post-ST2009 ones were based on Quinto who was working off a script that required him to be more emotionally volatile. This has continued with Discovery.

Inviere

Sad Professor wrote: »

All previous Vulcan actors based their performance on Nimoy and were working off scripts that stayed true to his interpretation...

Can't say I see the evidence for that. The Vulcans in Enterprise, arguably T'Pol aside, were way more emotional than they should have been, and this was long before the '09 reimagining. They were portrayed as angry, racist, and volatile...waaaay more so than we had previously seen with Spock et al. As a result, they were downright unlikable as a people, instead of being inspiring, admirable, and perhaps annoyingly 'right all the time', as we can had to know them to be.

...where as all the post-ST2009 ones were based on Quinto who was working off a script that required him to be more emotionally volatile. This has continued with Discovery.

Funnily enough, I think Quinto is quite good at portraying a young half blooded Spock.

Sad Professor

I agree that Quinto's portrayal still fits with the character but not as Nimoy played him. In fact, I don't think Nimoy would be cast as Spock today. That stoic thing that he excelled at is not how Vulcans are portrayed anymore.

I didn't really watch Enterprise past the first few episode, so maybe you're right that they were re-imagined earlier. However, I still think Nimoy was the template for all previous casting/performances.

Inviere

Sad Professor wrote: »

In fact, I don't think Nimoy would be cast as Spock today. That stoic thing that he excelled at is not how Vulcans are portrayed anymore.

Without a doubt. It's sad really, I much preferred Vulcans as the sage-like 'big brother' of humanity. In a way, they reflected some of the best parts of humanity, and gave us something to aspire towards (embracing peace, using logic instead of greed, critical thinking, brains over brawn etc). Now though, they're just slightly different humans...emotional, volatile, and, well, crap

TheValeyard

I thought the Vulans in Enterprise were on there way to becoming the Spock type Vulcan after the discovering the Kir'Shara

Inviere

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

I thought the Vulans in Enterprise were on there way to becoming the Spock type Vulcan after the discovering the Kir'Shara

There's just over a hundred years between ENT & TOS, and with Vulcans living well into their hundreds, that level of change just isn't believable. They tried to make the Vulcans annoying and interesting by making them hostile, racist, xenophobic, and so forth. Imo, it helped make the show a chore to watch early on, and ultimately backfired.

Evade

Wasn't the Vulcan attitude in Enterprise mostly down to the influence of the high Command which was disbanded during season four? The Party putting the few right thinking true believers in positions of power seems like pretty plausible scenario with the vast majority of the population just going along with the status quo.

Slydice

I wondered who yer wan was..


She's Tig Notaro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tig_Notaro

an American stand-up comic, writer, radio contributor, and actress.[2] She is known for her deadpan comedy.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tig_Notaro#Career
https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/tig-notaro-star-trek-discovery-1202750016/

guest-star as Chief Engineer Denise Reno of the U.S.S. Hiawatha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hiawatha

USS Hiawatha has been the name of more than one United States Navy ship, and may refer to:

USS Hiawatha (SP-183), a patrol vessel in commission from 1917 to 1920
USS Hiawatha (ID-2892), a tug in commission in 1918
USS Hiawatha (YT-265), later YTB-265 and YTM-265, a tug placed in service in 1942 and sold for scrapping in 1987

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiawatha

a pre-colonial Native American leader and co-founder of the Iroquois Confederacy.

Greyjoy

Overall I liked the trailer. I though anson mount makes a really good choice for Pike. I do like the humour but yeah it does tip over into 'trying too hard'. I did groan loudly at the statement that Spock is connected with this new anomaly. Could they not have used the character without having to crowbar him into the season arc?

pixelburp

I took it as a nod or hint towards The Motion Picture: IIRC Spock had a psychic connection with that particular 'giant disembodied intelligence', so perhaps that's where they're drawing inspiration from.

Sure, the huge anomaly could be something else, but if Season2 is trying to lean more towards traditional Trek, you can't get more traditional than the misunderstood intelligence beyond our norms of sentience / sapience.

Evade

I wasn't a fan of the two war veteran bridge crew acting like panicked inexperienced cadets.

pixelburp

To be fair, the trailer could be taking the joke out of context, snipping it for brevity etc.

Goodshape

Netflix trailer uses a different tune. Less jarring / distracting than the Lenny Kravitz –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Cd7NKKvDc

_Kaiser_

Evade wrote: »

I wasn't a fan of the two war veteran bridge crew acting like panicked inexperienced cadets.

pixelburp wrote: »

To be fair, the trailer could be taking the joke out of context, snipping it for brevity etc.

The problem here is that it's even more obvious that the humor has been shoe-horned in because they're using existing characters we saw last season who didn't behave like that - granted, most of the cast last year were little more than extras, but still..

Evade

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem here is that it's even more obvious that the humor has been shoe-horned in because they're using existing characters we saw last season who didn't behave like that - granted, most of the cast last year were little more than extras, but still..

Exactly. That kind of thing could work with fresh faced ensigns, cadets, or crewman, like the two engineers in DS9's Starship Down, but two characters we've seen behave competently for at least a year of wartime service, just no.

quad_red

“We are, we are casting a new Spock,” Kurzman said. “It’s not just a possibility, it’s been done.”

Kurtzman did not reveal who the new Spock actor is, but he did elaborate a bit on the challenges of casting a the iconic character.



http://comicbook.com/startrek/amp/2018/07/22/star-trek-discovery-spock-actor-cast/

Inviere

Ah, would have loved to see Quinto in the role.

pixelburp

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem here is that it's even more obvious that the humor has been shoe-horned in because they're using existing characters we saw last season who didn't behave like that - granted, most of the cast last year were little more than extras, but still..

Yeah, but ... season 1 like. It was such a mess Unless they do a full 180 on a character, I can forgive some retrofitting on what were otherwise empty vessels anyway.

The only thing I could tell you about either of those crew-members is the redhead was on the Shenzhou and resented Burnham for about 30 seconds. That's about it, bar the occasional reaction shot when some drama happened. Turning them into a comedy duo actually feels like a good idea

jmcc

Seems to be an attempt at a reboot with a central Kirk-like character as captain. But will it be able to capture the dynamics of the ST series with the core of characters (Kirk/Spock/McCoy/Scott, Picard/Riker/Troi,Worf/LaForge/Q) that drives each series?

Regards...jmcc

TheValeyard

I read that they will be using season 2 to comnect season 1 into canon. Try to match it up. Its one of the reasons they said there wouldnt be a female Spock. Its not a reboot but following canon.

AMKC

What are people thoughts on this?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/01/shadowy-figure-star-trek-discovery-season-2-trailer-borg-queen-7786347/

I for one hope it is not true.

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

What are people thoughts on this?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/01/shadowy-figure-star-trek-discovery-season-2-trailer-borg-queen-7786347/

I for one hope it is not true.

Better not be true or all that talk of matching canon is BS.

blazard

fritzelly wrote: »

Well that trailer has just got me super excited for season 2!

Loving the retro throwback with the uniforms

agreed, season one was fantastic,

whos gonna die next?
is he/she bad?

loved it

no borg please i'm fed up of them

pixelburp

Jaysus. Silly season begins in earnest. It's an indistinct blur, good luck to anyone trying to divine truth from that - the chat from the 2 artists just sounds like some professional spitballing over a classic villain & how one might do any update / downgrade. Shame on a newspaper dredging through Reddit for some articles though

AMKC

Slightly off topic but I think most in here will be interested to know. Brent Spinners new gig.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-brent-spiner-supergirl-season-4/

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I think most in here will be interested to know. Brent Spinners new gig.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-brent-spiner-supergirl-season-4/

I thought he was a stunt double for Mark Zuckerberg?

Inviere

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Its one of the reasons they said there wouldnt be a female Spock.

A female Spock? First I’ve heard of it, was it actually a thing?

TheValeyard

Inviere wrote: »

A female Spock? First I’ve heard of it, was it actually a thing?

It was suggested by some group and Alex had commented on it. The argument was that The Doctor (Doctor Who) could change, why not Spock

Inviere

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

It was suggested by some group and Alex had commented on it. The argument was that The Doctor (Doctor Who) could change, why not Spock

Gender politics, sigh. Instead of piggy backing on the great name of Spock to promote diversity, why not just create a strong female lead who can carve out her own slice of greatness? There have been several great female characters in Trek, Seven springs to mind. Naturally she can overlooked because of her physical attributes, but she owned every scene she was in, was brilliantly acted by Jeri Ryan, and took the show to a new high. We don’t need namesakes to promote women, race, or culture, we need damn good writing and damn good performers.

As an aside, I think Burnham is brilliant. Really really enjoying the character and show.

Evade

Inviere wrote: »

Gender politics, sigh. Instead of piggy backing on the great name of Spock to promote diversity, why not just create a strong female lead who can carve out her own slice of greatness?

Because no one can agree on what that means.

TheValeyard

Seven was good, but id think Janeway and Kira Nerys were very strong good female roles. Particularly Kira.

pixelburp

This is literally the first I've heard of the female Spock thing, it sounds utterly moronic. Whoever floated it mustn't have had a clue about the franchise. And I'm perfectly happy with the Doctor being female.

Kiith

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

The argument was that The Doctor (Doctor Who) could change, why not Spock

Ah, i was going to go on a rant about that being the stupidest thing i've heard in ages, but it's not worth it :pac:

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

This is literally the first I've heard of the female Spock thing, it sounds utterly moronic. Whoever floated it mustn't have had a clue about the franchise. And I'm perfectly happy with the Doctor being female.

Already calls for the new Buffy to be male, black and gay.

You cant win these days. Lets just let people make good tv.

Evade

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Already calls for the new Buffy to be male, black and gay.

You cant win these days. Lets just let people make good tv.

I'd say that's almost certainly a trollish response to the "it's time we had a female/black/etc James Bond (or any character that has so far been portrayed as a male of mostly Europaen descent)" crowd.

pixelburp

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Already calls for the new Buffy to be male, black and gay.

You cant win these days. Lets just let people make good tv.

There was confusion about this: they're making a sequel show to Buffy and yes, the main character will be black.

A lot fictions authors have preconceived desires or preference with casting. It's all made up after all, ethnicities, gende, orientation do tend to be deliberate choices one way or another

idris elba would be awesome as james bond. cos he's cool

Evade

bluewolf wrote: »

idris elba would be awesome as james bond. cos he's cool

Not to get too far into this topic but the solution to this is so obvious, there are other 00 agents that are as just capable as Bond. Introduce them in a cameo scene the next film and have Bond be missing or presumed dead at the end so they can take over the franchise for a while.