Match Play Horror Stories

Seve OB

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

In this situation. You play a second ball. One under your interpretation of the rules and one under his. Ball A and B. Record both scores and at the end of the round get the rule clarified and take appropriate score.

yea i know that. my problem was i didn't know where to play from under my interpretation of the new rule (new at the time)

Seve OB

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

Sorry I forgot to mention, my ball didn't actually move from its original spot. It wasn't a penalty but I didn't know this at the time but my opponent was having none of it either way.

thought once you touched the ball it's a penno whether it moves or not

HighLine

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

It's a local rule until it becomes an official rule in 2019. Any commitee can choose to enforce it or not until then.

This is correct. Hopefully most committees had the sense to introduce it as a local rule.

blue note

ForeRight wrote: »

Maybe he thought you were repairing a pitch mark.

No matter anyway. It's a fairly basic rule and I don't think it reflects anyway badly on the guy who pulled you. You didn't gain any advantage that's fine but where do you draw the line.
Say you touched the ball before putting by accident.... no adnsntage gained.
Would you expect someone to let it slide in such a tight highly contested match?

I wouldn't. You made the boo boo. Your problem.

I clearly wasn't repairing a pitchmark and if I had there was zero chance of the ball going where I tapped if it was to have any chance of going in.

My initial reaction was the same as you - I should have known the rule and that's the long and the short of it. But after telling a couple of people who were fairly shocked that someone would call that in a club matchplay, I thought about it from his point of view and realised I would never call a penalty like that in matchplay.

And if someone I was playing against in matchplay touched the ball as you described would I let it slide? Absolutely!

HighLine

Seve OB wrote: »

thought once you touched the ball it's a penno whether it moves or not

No, merely touching is fine and as highlighted above, most clubs have introduced the new local rule thankfully for accidental movements on the putting green.


Interesting one regarding wind causing a ball to move... it doesn't matter whether you have your ball marker in place or not. So a few years ago I was playing in a singles comp and it was a windy day on fast greens.... typical for Wicklow Golf Club. The guy had marked his ball on the green, cleaned it and replaced it but left his marker in place whilst he was reading the putt.
So a big gust came and blew his ball maybe 5/6ft further away from it's marked position.
He then said "good job I left my marker there". He didn't believe me when I said he had to play from its new position as a ball once replaced on a green is in play regardless of a marker being there.
Neither of us had any score going and I said it more in a helpful way rather than being rules enforcer but I imagine if there was an inter-club match and this scenario happened... it probably wouldn't be so friendly!

Mantis Toboggan

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

Funnily enough there is a new local rule which means if I did the same today, it would be no penalty. I just feel amateurs pulling each other up on such small infractions is ridiculous and not at all in the spirit of the game.

Unfortunately there's assholes in every club who think the matchplay is a qualifier for the pga tour. Best to avoid them and move on.

diegocosta99

In a junior cup match on the second hole my opponent tried to drop greenside of a yellow hazard on the second hole. When I said he had to drop on the far side of the hazard he said "If that's the way you want to play it".

On the fourth hole he was just short of the green and I was about 30 metres short. I hit a great chip to about 2 cms left of the hole. As I walked up to mark my ball (it wasn't given) he told me to leave it where it was.

On the 13th he pulled his drive into gorse. He hit an excellent drive with his provisional ball. We find his first drive but there is no option available so he has to play the shot again. He starts insisting that his provisional ball is now the ball in play. This is a guy in his forties playing off 5.

I've come across him a few times since, nasty piece of work, murine appearance.

Greysquirel09

diegocosta99 wrote: »

In a junior cup match on the second hole my opponent tried to drop greenside of a yellow hazard on the second hole. When I said he had to drop on the far side of the hazard he said "If that's the way you want to play it".

On the fourth hole he was just short of the green and I was about 30 metres short. I hit a great chip to about 2 cms left of the hole. As I walked up to mark my ball (it wasn't given) he told me to leave it where it was.

On the 13th he pulled his drive into gorse. He hit an excellent drive with his provisional ball. We find his first drive but there is no option available so he has to play the shot again. He starts insisting that his provisional ball is now the ball in play. This is a guy in his forties playing off 5.

I've come across him a few times since, nasty piece of work, murine appearance.

Sounds like a lovely fella. Playing off 5 and doesn't know the rules. Makes you wonder.

stockdam

WHIP IT! wrote: »

stockdam wrote: »

In my younger days I played a lot of matchplay.
Firstly a comment about gimmes. I used to be a very good putter but I think that getting too many gimmes messed that up. I went through a stage of not being able to hole 2 foot putts in strokeplay under pressure as I had got out of the habit. Most people knew how good I was a putting so they gave me lots of short putts and then one day I got the yipps.
I have played with two people who were cheats.
One was a high handicapper and used to hit the ball into knee high rough. He would walk round and round in circles looking for his ball (how did he know that it was within a 2 foot radius). He'd then bend down and pick up his ball to confirm it was his (no mark on his ball) and then would proceed to take a wood out of the long grass. Of course what he was doing was tramping the grass down until he had a very good lie, then he would take a ball out of his pocket and use that one ("found it") and then the worst thing was that he "replaced" his ball on top of a small tee. The guy could barely hit the ball 150 yards from the fairway but he could hit his best shots out of rough that I would have struggled to get a wedge onto. It's was comical when I saw what he was doing.......bit sad though.
The 2nd person was a scratch golfer who was a snide. He used to steal balls out of people's bags in the locker rooms (as a juvenille I didn't have a locker and most of may new balls went missing). When I played this guy he would spit at my ball when I was teeing up. That never put me off though as I could play with a brass-band playing full bore. The bit that did get me though was how he marked the ball on the green. He was a "magician" and I don't mean that he was amazing but he had learnt the act of palming the ball. He would place his hand over the ball and move it forwards three inches whilst lifting it and placing a marker on the green in one movement. He would then do the same thing just before his putt to make sure "his ball was clean". He could easily move the marker forwards 6 inches in two ball marking movements. So instead of clearly marking the ball and lifting it, he would lift and mark at the same time whilst moving his hand in a forwards and upwards movement. It's hard to explain but it was so obvious once you saw it. Most people don't really watch their opponent marking the ball. When I called him up on it then he would call me a liar. Anyway, I rarely played against the guy. He still owes me £75 to this day. A guy with great talent but such a twat,

Where the f*ck did you play golf?? :eek::D

In a pretty posh club.

stockdam

Post deleted as it posted twice.

billy3sheets

Interesting to see the various attitudes to rules and which ones you could justifiably claim a hole on when breached.
Are there some who would never claim a hole on a rule breach regardless of the rule? Are there others who are just waiting to pounce on any breach?
I know that a lot of golfers have a loose or wrong interpretation of rules and so are vulnerable to being called. In practice rounds I've often explained rules to teammates knowing that they are liable to lose a match through breaches - taking relief incorrectly is the mist common.

blue note

billy3sheets wrote: »

Interesting to see the various attitudes to rules and which ones you could justifiably claim a hole on when breached.
Are there some who would never claim a hole on a rule breach regardless of the rule? Are there others who are just waiting to pounce on any breach?
I know that a lot of golfers have a loose or wrong interpretation of rules and so are vulnerable to being called. In practice rounds I've often explained rules to teammates knowing that they are liable to lose a match through breaches - taking relief incorrectly is the mist common.

If someone broke a rule intentionally I'd call them for it regardless of whether they got an advantage from it. Or if someone broke a rule that gave them an advantage I'd call them. I'd say most people are fairly similar.

billy3sheets

blue note wrote: »

If someone broke a rule intentionally I'd call them for it regardless of whether they got an advantage from it. Or if someone broke a rule that gave them an advantage I'd call them. I'd say most people are fairly similar.

I'd say I'd be similar. Wouldn't be out looking to win based on a breach. I'd warn an opponent if he was about to break a rule.

stockdam

If I'm playing a casual round then I point out when people are breaking the rules and then I explain to them what they should have done. I tell them that they should read up on the rules as they could be disqualified etc. if they do it in a match or competition.

Some people don't "like" some rules and they think that it is ok to break some of the "unfair" ones. I often see this in society golf and although it's not a big deal it does sometimes skew who wins.

If I'm playing a match and somebody breaks a rule then I would ask them to replay the shot or whatever. I'd generally give them one "mulligan" but penalise them for the next infringement. If they are playing a serious match then they should know the rules and so it's their fault that they are being docked.

is this username available

diegocosta99 wrote: »

On the 13th he pulled his drive into gorse. He hit an excellent drive with his provisional ball. We find his first drive but there is no option available so he has to play the shot again. He starts insisting that his provisional ball is now the ball in play. This is a guy in his forties playing off 5.

In this case do you need to walk back and hit a third from the tee? I wouldn't have known..

In fact, as someone not playing that long this is actually a great thread for learning some of the rules.

stockdam

is this username available wrote: »

diegocosta99 wrote: »

On the 13th he pulled his drive into gorse. He hit an excellent drive with his provisional ball. We find his first drive but there is no option available so he has to play the shot again. He starts insisting that his provisional ball is now the ball in play. This is a guy in his forties playing off 5.

In this case do you need to walk back and hit a third from the tee? I wouldn't have known..

In fact, as someone not playing that long this is actually a great thread for learning some of the rules.

Once the original ball is found then the provisional is out of play and must be lifted. If the original ball is unplayable and there is nowhere that the ball can be dropped without still being unplayable then the only other option is to go back to where the previous shot was played from adding a penalty shot (so if it was the tee shot then go back to the tee and play three).

Seve OB

is this username available wrote: »

In this case do you need to walk back and hit a third from the tee? I wouldn't have known..

yes. and i've seen lots of people take issue with this as they say what is the point if there is already a ball in play.

look at it like this.

what if they hit their provo into the junk also, and it was ball no 3 lying in a playable position (might not even be a good lie - say a knock down off the tee only travelled 150 yards). But they find ball 1 & ball 2 both in unplayable positions. Would they really want to be playing shot no 6 with their 3rd ball or would they like the opportunity to go back to the tee and play their 3rd shot?

kennethrhcp

Not back playing too long but worst I've seen was a PP opponent (older fella) put his foot behind the ball in deep rough to improve his lie... my partner didn't see it so we left it off but said if it happens again we'd say it. match got abandoned on 2nd green due to the weather.

Webbs

Seve OB wrote: »

yes. and i've seen lots of people take issue with this as they say what is the point if there is already a ball in play.

look at it like this.

what if they hit their provo into the junk also, and it was ball no 3 lying in a playable position (might not even be a good lie - say a knock down off the tee only travelled 150 yards). But they find ball 1 & ball 2 both in unplayable positions. Would they really want to be playing shot no 6 with their 3rd ball or would they like the opportunity to go back to the tee and play their 3rd shot?

Playing the provo and having the option to use that as the ball in play if the original ball is unplayable surely isnt a bad idea, it helps hugely with pace of play to start with.

The option you described whilst am sure it has happened would be a really rare occurrence, to be honest if someone has hit their third ball and is then playing six I would imagine a lot of players would be thinking of just playing on without a care in the world as you may as well tear the card up at that point!
The maximum score strokeplay that is planned to come in in 2019 would come into play if adopted to help this slowing up of play

GreeBo

Webbs wrote: »

Playing the provo and having the option to use that as the ball in play if the original ball is unplayable surely isnt a bad idea

The problem is that the player gets to decide its unplayable.
This means you have the scenario where two balls are in play and the player gets to decide which one to continue with, other than Scotch & Various team events, this is never the case in golf. There is only one ball in play at any time.

You hit a provisional in case your first ball is not found. Once its found then the provisional is no more, irrespective of where or what condition you find the original in.
Hence why you don't hit a provisional for a ball that may be "lost" in a water hazard.

Imagine a short but severe dog-leg left par four. I hit a poor enough 4 iron tight to the left side, probably making it a par 5 for me at best if I am blocked out.

I decide to hit a provisional, as is my right, and cut the dog leg with my driver.
Would you be ok with me going to check if my provisional is on the green with a putt for a 4 because my original ball is pretty dead and looking like a 5 at best?
What if my provisional is carved right and in an impossible position, are you then ok with me deciding that the original wasn't so bad and I'll take the 5?

Other than in your trousers, you don't have two balls in play in golf.

Webbs wrote: »

playing six I would imagine a lot of players would be thinking of just playing on without a care in the world as you may as well tear the card up at that point!

For handicap purposes you are limited to nett double bogey, so I would hope that you would indeed play on as normal?

Webbs

GreeBo wrote: »

The problem is that the player gets to decide its unplayable.
This means you have the scenario where two balls are in play and the player gets to decide which one to continue with, other than Scotch & Various team events, this is never the case in golf. There is only one ball in play at any time.

You hit a provisional in case your first ball is not found. Once its found then the provisional is no more, irrespective of where or what condition you find the original in.
Hence why you don't hit a provisional for a ball that may be "lost" in a water hazard.

Imagine a short but severe dog-leg left par four. I hit a poor enough 4 iron tight to the left side, probably making it a par 5 for me at best if I am blocked out.

I decide to hit a provisional, as is my right, and cut the dog leg with my driver.
Would you be ok with me going to check if my provisional is on the green with a putt for a 4 because my original ball is pretty dead and looking like a 5 at best?
What if my provisional is carved right and in an impossible position, are you then ok with me deciding that the original wasn't so bad and I'll take the 5?

Other than in your trousers, you don't have two balls in play in golf.


For handicap purposes you are limited to nett double bogey, so I would hope that you would indeed play on as normal?

Guess I always assume everyone is honest too often

I do get what your saying its just with the pace of play becoming more and more an issue some things need to change.

stockdam

GreeBo wrote: »

........

Imagine a short but severe dog-leg left par four. I hit a poor enough 4 iron tight to the left side, probably making it a par 5 for me at best if I am blocked out.

I decide to hit a provisional, as is my right, and cut the dog leg with my driver.
Would you be ok with me going to check if my provisional is on the green with a putt for a 4 because my original ball is pretty dead and looking like a 5 at best?
?

I don't think that you have to look for your ball (but your opponent can). You could walk up to the 2nd ball and hole out whilst your opponent was looking for your first ball. In this case if you play your provisional from a point ahead of where your original ball was deemed to be then the provisional is in play providing your opponent doesn't find your original ball first.

So what would happen if you did this in a match and played out of turn? Your opponent could ask for you to rehit but would your provisional ball be in play when you first hit it out of turn (i'll have to look that one up).

There's no penalty for hitting out of turn in stroke play so in theory if you hit a great provisional to a foot from the hole, run up and tap it in whilst leaving everyone else looking for your original ball. What would happen if you holed your provisional? In theory you would have to wait for 5 minutes whilst your original ball was being looked for (EDIT - I believe that the provisional ball would be in play as soon as you lift it out of the hole providing that your original ball is not found first and within 5 minutes.

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

The problem is that the player gets to decide its unplayable.
This means you have the scenario where two balls are in play and the player gets to decide which one to continue with, other than Scotch & Various team events, this is never the case in golf. There is only one ball in play at any time.

You hit a provisional in case your first ball is not found. Once its found then the provisional is no more, irrespective of where or what condition you find the original in.
Hence why you don't hit a provisional for a ball that may be "lost" in a water hazard.

Imagine a short but severe dog-leg left par four. I hit a poor enough 4 iron tight to the left side, probably making it a par 5 for me at best if I am blocked out.

I decide to hit a provisional, as is my right, and cut the dog leg with my driver.
Would you be ok with me going to check if my provisional is on the green with a putt for a 4 because my original ball is pretty dead and looking like a 5 at best?
What if my provisional is carved right and in an impossible position, are you then ok with me deciding that the original wasn't so bad and I'll take the 5?

Other than in your trousers, you don't have two balls in play in golf.


For handicap purposes you are limited to nett double bogey, so I would hope that you would indeed play on as normal?

GreeBo has a point here

BTW, welcome back

Seve OB

stockdam wrote: »

I don't think that you have to look for your ball (but your opponent can). You could walk up to the 2nd ball and hole out whilst your opponent was looking for your first ball. In this case if you play your provisional from a point ahead of where your original ball was deemed to be then the provisional is in play providing your opponent doesn't find your original ball first.

So what would happen if you did this in a match and played out of turn? Your opponent could ask for you to rehit but would your provisional ball be in play when you first hit it out of turn (i'll have to look that one up).

There's no penalty for hitting out of turn in stroke play so in theory if you hit a great provisional to a foot from the hole, run up and tap it in whilst leaving everyone else looking for your original ball. What would happen if you holed your provisional? In theory you would have to wait for 5 minutes whilst your original ball was being looked for.

But he is not talking about a lost ball or playing out of turn.
he is talking about an unplayable lie and the option of playing his provisional instead

stockdam

Ok so if you hit a ball into deep rough and think that it is lost and then play a provisional that goes straight into the hole then you can run up and take the provisional out of the hole; it is now the ball in play (I think). So I can envisage a Benny Hill type race between you and your opponent........one trying to find your original ball and you sprinting up the fairway leaving your clubs behind to take your 2nd ball out of the hole.

It would make an interesting hearing with the committee if somebody makes no attempt to look for a lost ball.

stockdam

Seve OB wrote: »

stockdam wrote: »

I don't think that you have to look for your ball (but your opponent can). You could walk up to the 2nd ball and hole out whilst your opponent was looking for your first ball. In this case if you play your provisional from a point ahead of where your original ball was deemed to be then the provisional is in play providing your opponent doesn't find your original ball first.

So what would happen if you did this in a match and played out of turn? Your opponent could ask for you to rehit but would your provisional ball be in play when you first hit it out of turn (i'll have to look that one up).

There's no penalty for hitting out of turn in stroke play so in theory if you hit a great provisional to a foot from the hole, run up and tap it in whilst leaving everyone else looking for your original ball. What would happen if you holed your provisional? In theory you would have to wait for 5 minutes whilst your original ball was being looked for.

But he is not talking about a lost ball or playing out of turn.
he is talking about an unplayable lie and the option of playing his provisional instead

That's been answered. If the original ball is found then the provisional is lifted and cannot be played. I was going down the route when your provisional is in a much better place; you can decide to hit your provisional without looking for the original ball and if you hit the 2nd ball from closer to the hole before your first is found then the provisional is in play.

stockdam

Note that you also must clearly state that you are hitting a provisional before leaving the place where you hit the first ball.

Many people think that saying "I'll hit another one" means hitting a provisional. It doesn't as hitting another ball means that you have put a 2nd ball into play and your first ball is now out of play. You must make it clear that it is a provisional and the best way to do this is to use the word provisional.

Seve OB

stockdam wrote: »

That's been answered. If the original ball is found then the provisional is lifted and cannot be played. I was going down the route when your provisional is in a much better place; you can decide to hit your provisional without looking for the original ball and if you hit the 2nd ball from closer to the hole before your first is found then the provisional is in play.

no, I know that and so do you and so does GreeBo, but GreeBo was addressing this post in a devils advocate/what if scenario, in order to prove to Webbs that it doesn't make sense to allow a provisional ball to become in play in situations where the original ball is unplayable

Webbs wrote: »

Playing the provo and having the option to use that as the ball in play if the original ball is unplayable surely isnt a bad idea

diegocosta99

stockdam wrote: »

Ok so if you hit a ball into deep rough and think that it is lost and then play a provisional that goes straight into the hole then you can run up and take the provisional out of the hole; it is now the ball in play (I think). So I can envisage a Benny Hill type race between you and your opponent........one trying to find your original ball and you sprinting up the fairway leaving your clubs behind to take your 2nd ball out of the hole.

It would make an interesting hearing with the committee if somebody makes no attempt to look for a lost ball.

I believe you are correct. If the provisional ball is played (or lifted from the hole) it is now the ball in play assuming your opponent has not found the original ball in the meantime. The chase should be accompanied by music and a group of lady members in school uniforms running after the players in slow motion.

GreeBo

stockdam wrote: »

It would make an interesting hearing with the committee if somebody makes no attempt to look for a lost ball.

Happens all the time in matches, no obligation to look, but nothing to stop anyone else looking either.