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Match Play Horror Stories

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12357…11

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    #122
    kennethrhcp
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭kennethrhcp


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Happens all the time in matches, no obligation to look, but nothing to stop anyone else looking either.

    would you go & look? I know you've the right to... but would you?

    I don't think I would tbh, unless my opponent was a total muppet


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    #123
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    kennethrhcp wrote: »
    would you go & look? I know you've the right to... but would you?

    I don't think I would tbh, unless my opponent was a total muppet

    In interclub, especially when you are away, there were be plenty of people around to "help" your opponent to look for their ball...


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    #124
    billy3sheets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    If you declare your ball lost, does it matter if you or your opponent finds it after that?


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    #125
    diegocosta99
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭diegocosta99


    Declaring your ball lost has no validity under the rules. The situation would be as above, ie, your opponent could search for your ball and the provisional is not the ball in play until you play it.


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    #126
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,973 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    diegocosta99 wrote: »
    Declaring your ball lost has no validity under the rules. The situation would be as above, ie, your opponent could search for your ball and the provisional is not the ball in play until you play it.

    or until you have spent 5 minutes looking for it.
    who says you can't spend 5 minutes looking for it as you walk down the semi rough? :D


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    #127
    stockdam
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    GreeBo wrote: »
    kennethrhcp wrote: »
    would you go & look? I know you've the right to... but would you?

    I don't think I would tbh, unless my opponent was a total muppet

    In interclub, especially when you are away, there were be plenty of people around to "help" your opponent to look for their ball...

    Yep, in club matches there will be hoards looking if they think their guy would gain an advantage.

    You don't have to look and you can play the provisional; it comes the ball in play when you play it from nearer the hole than where the original ball may be.


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    #128
    stockdam
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    kennethrhcp wrote: »
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Happens all the time in matches, no obligation to look, but nothing to stop anyone else looking either.

    would you go & look? I know you've the right to... but would you?

    I don't think I would tbh, unless my opponent was a total muppet

    Well in a very tight match, they are using the rules to "not look" and gain an advantage if their ball is deep in trouble and they have hit an excellent provisional shot. You are entitled to use the rules too and look for the ball for 5 minutes. However you will feel a tool looking by yourself for 5 minutes for somebody else's ball.


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    #129
    stockdam
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    If you declare your ball lost, does it matter if you or your opponent finds it after that?

    You cannot declare your ball lost. You can hit another ball (without declaring it as provisional) or play your provisional (until it is hit from closer to the hole) before the ball is found.


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    #130
    diegocosta99
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭diegocosta99


    The best use of the rules I ever saw was in Rosslare. The index 1 7th hole has a deep depression with an almost vertical face just short of the green. On this day the pin was only a few paces on the green. My opponent had played 2 fantastic shots and had a 15-foot birdie putt. He raced it by and it just dropped off the front of the green and down into the depression. Up and down from there would be a 1 in 10 chance at best. Quick as a flash he said he was playing the shot again and rolled it in for a bogey having had the advantage of seeing the line and pace. Great use of the rules and it would never have occurred to me to do that.


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    #131
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,888 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem is that the player gets to decide its unplayable.

    Hence why you don't hit a provisional for a ball that may be "lost" in a water hazard.

    It is a different topic but related to this - I hit a ball in a medal and it splashed into a water hazard. I knew I couldn't hit a provisional - but when I had got to the ball it had bounced on hazard sleeper and gone OOB - had to walk back to tee and hit a 3rd - the looks and comments I got from group behind. I explained the rule - but they were still confused as to why I didn't hit a provisional.

    Sometimes playing the game right - regular , even experienced golfers think you are wrong or a tool for doing the right thing.


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    #132
    david2002
    Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭david2002


    diegocosta99 wrote: »
    The best use of the rules I ever saw was in Rosslare. The index 1 7th hole has a deep depression with an almost vertical face just short of the green. On this day the pin was only a few paces on the green. My opponent had played 2 fantastic shots and had a 15-foot birdie putt. He raced it by and it just dropped off the front of the green and down into the depression. Up and down from there would be a 1 in 10 chance at best. Quick as a flash he said he was playing the shot again and rolled it in for a bogey having had the advantage of seeing the line and pace. Great use of the rules and it would never have occurred to me to do that.

    2 good shots to be on the green alright (It's the index 2 5th, I reckon you are referring to)
    I have never seen anyone put back off the front of that green in all the years I am playing there. Not from 40ft (from the back edge to the front flag) and definitely not from 15ft. Even a front flag is 10-15th from the drop back in to the 'valley'. That has to be the worst put ever.
    I'm sure his 5 was no good anyway cause you got your par :)


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    #133
    billy3sheets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    stockdam wrote: »
    billy3sheets wrote: »
    If you declare your ball lost, does it matter if you or your opponent finds it after that?

    You cannot declare your ball lost. You can hit another ball (without declaring it as provisional) or play your provisional (until it is hit from closer to the hole) before the ball is found.
    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem is that the player gets to decide its unplayable.

    Hence why you don't hit a provisional for a ball that may be "lost" in a water hazard.

    It is a different topic but related to this - I hit a ball in a medal and it splashed into a water hazard. I knew I couldn't hit a provisional - but when I had got to the ball it had bounced on hazard sleeper and gone OOB - had to walk back to tee and hit a 3rd - the looks and comments I got from group behind. I explained the rule - but they were still confused as to why I didn't hit a provisional.

    Sometimes playing the game right - regular , even experienced golfers think you are wrong or a tool for doing the right thing.
    I had a similar issue in a match a few years ago. Opponent missed the green but not certain it was in the water hazard and played a provisional to middle of green. We searched for his ball, couldn't find it and so declared it lost in the hazard!
    I had gone in the water too. He holed his provisional and won the hole. I contended that if it was in the hazard he had to play his 3rd from other side of the hazard.
    I eventually won the match but that hole had brought him level.


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    #134
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    I had a similar issue in a match a few years ago. Opponent missed the green but not certain it was in the water hazard and played a provisional to middle of green. We searched for his ball, couldn't find it and so declared it lost in the hazard!
    I had gone in the water too. He holed his provisional and won the hole. I contended that if it was in the hazard he had to play his 3rd from other side of the hazard.
    I eventually won the match but that hole had brought him level.
    You were correct, his provo was irrelevant at that stage.


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    #135
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    It is a different topic but related to this - I hit a ball in a medal and it splashed into a water hazard. I knew I couldn't hit a provisional - but when I had got to the ball it had bounced on hazard sleeper and gone OOB - had to walk back to tee and hit a 3rd - the looks and comments I got from group behind. I explained the rule - but they were still confused as to why I didn't hit a provisional.

    Sometimes playing the game right - regular , even experienced golfers think you are wrong or a tool for doing the right thing.

    Situation in my club got added to the decisions in the book.

    Ball lands in water hazard and flows OOB.
    Much better off not looking for it, take your drop or replay and run.


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    #136
    stockdam
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭stockdam


    billy3sheets wrote: »
    I had  a similar issue in a match a few years ago. Opponent missed the green but not certain it was in the water hazard and played a provisional to middle of green. We searched for his ball, couldn't find it and so declared it lost in the hazard!
    I had gone in the water too. He holed his provisional and won the hole. I contended that if it was in the hazard he had to play his 3rd from other side of the hazard.
    I eventually won the match but that hole had brought him level.

    If you declared his ball lost in the water hazard then the provisional was out of play. He would have had to drop. The problem is if you don't agree that the ball is in the hazard.


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    #137
    diegocosta99
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭diegocosta99


    david2002 wrote: »
    2 good shots to be on the green alright (It's the index 2 5th, I reckon you are referring to)
    I have never seen anyone put back off the front of that green in all the years I am playing there. Not from 40ft (from the back edge to the front flag) and definitely not from 15ft. Even a front flag is 10-15th from the drop back in to the 'valley'. That has to be the worst put ever.
    I'm sure his 5 was no good anyway cause you got your par :)

    ðŸ˜႒ He would have beaten me playing left handed that day. It was very windy 😱


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    #138
    billy3sheets
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    stockdam wrote: »

    If you declared his ball lost in the water hazard then the provisional was out of play. He would have had to drop. The problem is if you don't agree that the ball is in the hazard.
    We weren't sure it had gone in the hazard but the only place it could have been lost was in the hazard. We only looked in the reeds along the edge. It was the final and we had caddies. Neither of them knew for certain even after phoning experts.
    Good job I won in the end!


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    #139
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    diegocosta99 wrote: »
    The best use of the rules I ever saw was in Rosslare. The index 1 7th hole has a deep depression with an almost vertical face just short of the green. On this day the pin was only a few paces on the green. My opponent had played 2 fantastic shots and had a 15-foot birdie putt. He raced it by and it just dropped off the front of the green and down into the depression. Up and down from there would be a 1 in 10 chance at best. Quick as a flash he said he was playing the shot again and rolled it in for a bogey having had the advantage of seeing the line and pace. Great use of the rules and it would never have occurred to me to do that.
    Am I missing something here? What gave him the right to play the shot again? Did he play out of turn?


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    #140
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,161 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Am I missing something here? What gave him the right to play the shot again? Did he play out of turn?

    You have the option to replay any shot at any time for any reason for a penalty of 1 stroke.

    Technically the reason is that the ball is "unplayable" in your opinion.


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    #141
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,544 ✭✭✭blue note


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You have the option to replay any shot at any time for any reason for a penalty of 1 stroke.

    Technically the reason is that the ball is "unplayable" in your opinion.

    I'd flat out call that cheating. And in some instances I don't see how you couldn't say to your playing partner that's not an unplayable lie. If it was a bit questionable I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but if someone just decided that the one shot penalty was better than playing the ball from where they hit it, despite it being playable I'd tell them it's not an unplayable lie.


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    #142
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    blue note wrote: »
    I'd flat out call that cheating. And in some instances I don't see how you couldn't say to your playing partner that's not an unplayable lie. If it was a bit questionable I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but if someone just decided that the one shot penalty was better than playing the ball from where they hit it, despite it being playable I'd tell them it's not an unplayable lie.

    It is hardly cheating when it is a rule set out by the R&A. It is not up to you or anyone else to say whether a ball is unplayable or not. That responsibility rests solely with the player who's playing the shot.

    From the Rules
    "The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable."


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    #143
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,973 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Actually happened me recently. Hit a ball and was pretty sure it was in the water hazard just short of the green, as were my playing partners. When we got up to it, we had a look around short and long side and no ball to be found so it was assumed ball was in the drink so I dropped one and played out the hole and rescued a point.
    As we walked off to the next tee, I spot the ball, it had travelled a bit further than any of us had thought and was nestling nicely, pin high off to the side of the green.

    Could I have played the ball? I would think not, but one guy I was playing with told me to. I would have thought that if I was to, there would have been penalties involved. I just scratched the hole.


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    #144
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,544 ✭✭✭blue note


    kiers47 wrote: »
    It is hardly cheating when it is a rule set out by the R&A. It is not up to you or anyone else to say whether a ball is unplayable or not. That responsibility rests solely with the player who's playing the shot.

    From the Rules
    "The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable."

    It clearly is. It's called an unplayable lie. You're responsible for judging whether or not it's an unplayable lie, not whether or not the 1 shot penalty is better than playing it.

    Fair enough I might not be able to refuse to sign their card for it, but if someone abused the rules like that I would definitely make it clear to them what I thought of it. It's unsporting and dishonest.


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    #145
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    blue note wrote: »
    It clearly is. It's called an unplayable lie. You're responsible for judging whether or not it's an unplayable lie, not whether or not the 1 shot penalty is better than playing it.

    Fair enough I might not be able to refuse to sign their card for it, but if someone abused the rules like that I would definitely make it clear to them what I thought of it. It's unsporting and dishonest.

    That is a poor reflection of your own grasp on the rules of golf. As stated above, it is clearly stated by the R&A and USGA that the player is the sole judge of whether a ball is unplayable or not. There are no ambiguities. And if you showed the attitude as suggested above, there would be a letter sent in about your conduct.


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    #146
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Seve OB wrote: »
    Actually happened me recently. Hit a ball and was pretty sure it was in the water hazard just short of the green, as were my playing partners. When we got up to it, we had a look around short and long side and no ball to be found so it was assumed ball was in the drink so I dropped one and played out the hole and rescued a point.
    As we walked off to the next tee, I spot the ball, it had travelled a bit further than any of us had thought and was nestling nicely, pin high off to the side of the green.

    Could I have played the ball? I would think not, but one guy I was playing with told me to. I would have thought that if I was to, there would have been penalties involved. I just scratched the hole.
    Pretty much identical situation happened to me. Absolutely sure my ball had gone in the water hazard, so dropped one and played on. After finishing the hole and walking off, spotted my original ball in the rough next to the green. The only way it could have got there is if it had clipped a stone on the edge of the hazard and skipped over it.


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    #147
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    blue note wrote: »
    It clearly is. It's called an unplayable lie. You're responsible for judging whether or not it's an unplayable lie, not whether or not the 1 shot penalty is better than playing it.

    Fair enough I might not be able to refuse to sign their card for it, but if someone abused the rules like that I would definitely make it clear to them what I thought of it. It's unsporting and dishonest.

    There are a number of rules which are very unfair in golf. I do not see the problem with using the ones that can help you to your advantage. I certainly would have no problem doing it and i don't really think it is unsporting or dishonest. It is simply using the rules to your advantage. At the end of the day it is costing you a stroke to avail of it.


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    #148
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,973 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    kiers47 wrote: »
    There are a number of rules which are very unfair in golf. I do not see the problem with using the ones that can help you to your advantage. I certainly would have no problem doing it and i don't really think it is unsporting or dishonest. It is simply using the rules to your advantage. At the end of the day it is costing you a stroke to avail of it.

    id say it is hard to find a week on the pga tour where someone doesn't use a rule to their advantage.


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    #149
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    Seve OB wrote: »
    id say it is hard to find a week on the pga tour where someone doesn't use a rule to their advantage.

    Pretty much. I don't see the point in getting worked up about it. If it's something someone doesnt want to do then fine. But people shouldn't be castigated for playing within the rules because someone frowns upon it.


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    #150
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,544 ✭✭✭blue note


    It's not an option to replay any shots you want, it's a responsibility to judge whether or not you have an unplayable lie. I don't see how you can not view someone declaring a playable ball unplayable as anything other than dishonest and that honesty is core to people being able to referee themselves.

    Take for example a ball that enters a hazard that your playing partner didn't see. He says he will have to trust you as to where it crossed. To me that means that you should take the point of entry as where you believe it crossed hazard. However, if it's up to you to decide maybe you should take a more advantageous spot? Your playing partner didn't see it, so it's entirely up to you. I don't see this as too different to declaring a lie unplayable when it clearly is.


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    #151
    kiers47
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭kiers47


    blue note wrote: »
    It's not an option to replay any shots you want, it's a responsibility to judge whether or not you have an unplayable lie. I don't see how you can not view someone declaring a playable ball unplayable as anything other than dishonest and that honesty is core to people being able to referee themselves.

    Take for example a ball that enters a hazard that your playing partner didn't see. He says he will have to trust you as to where it crossed. To me that means that you should take the point of entry as where you believe it crossed hazard. However, if it's up to you to decide maybe you should take a more advantageous spot? Your playing partner didn't see it, so it's entirely up to you. I don't see this as too different to declaring a lie unplayable when it clearly is.


    It actually is an option you have to replay any shot you want under penalty of 1 stroke under the the unplayable lie rule. I really don't see why you have such a problem with the rule.


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