Match Play Horror Stories

Seve OB

billy3sheets wrote: »

Why did you scratch Seve? Surely you had declared your ball lost by way of playing your second under penalty? Irrelevant that you had found your original ball - you could neither play it or be punished for the fact that you (and your partners) had judged it to be in the hazard?

first of all it was the 17th and i wasn't going to contend and it was a sh1tty day.

well i stand open to correction but i would of thought i really should have played the original ball and been with hit with a penalty for playing the wrong ball.

Seve OB

blue note wrote: »

If you can justify it fine. But if you can't offer any reasonable justification, then suck it up and play the thingaccept and play by the rules.

FYP

Miley Byrne

elbagarihno wrote: »

Maybe at mid amateur level you are right, I wouldn't know.

When I say "mid amateur" I mean mid level handicap golf. 4 footers are far from gimmes for the average club player

blue note

elbagarihno wrote: »

Somehow, you seem unable to see the point, no worries.

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with it. I want people to play not only within the rules, but in the spirit of them. You seem fine with people taking advantage of poorly worded rules.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone suggest applying the rule like that. Certainly not me. I'm basically just saying don't take the p1ss with it. If you putt the ball into a bunker and you're a terrible bunker player (and think you won't end up as close to the hole hitting out of the bunker as you would if you took your drop) then I'm saying you're not playing within the spirit of the game by calling a ball unplayable.

If you can justify it fine. But if you can't offer any reasonable justification, then suck it up and play the thing.

How is that example any different from the bush example? In both cases you think you will have a lower score by taking an unplayable?
Logic justifies this approach, you have decided that a rule of the game is badly worded, I contend that its worded specifically in this way.

Seve OB wrote: »

first of all it was the 17th and i wasn't going to contend and it was a sh1tty day.

well i stand open to correction but i would of thought i really should have played the original ball and been with hit with a penalty for playing the wrong ball.

Once you continued with the Provo (and finished out) your score with the provo was valid.

kiers47

blue note wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with it. I want people to play not only within the rules, but in the spirit of them. You seem fine with people taking advantage of poorly worded rules.

Funny you should mention "Spirit of the game".
This is also mentioned in the rules book. Which clearly you dont seem to know to much about as you seem to be confusing rules from water hazards earlier with balls unplayable.

But anyway the rules(actually its in the Etiquette section) state the "The Spirit of the game" is as follows

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

So there you have it the spirit of the game that you are clinging to tells players to abide by the rules.

elbagarihno

blue note wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with it. I want people to play not only within the rules, but in the spirit of them. You seem fine with people taking advantage of poorly worded rules.

It's not a poorly worded rule, it's just one you feel the need to disagree with. I didn't write the rule, nor do I necessarily agree with it, but the fact remains that it is there in the rules of Golf and people can use it to their advantage should they so wish.

I have no right, moral or otherwise, to judge that person should they do so, nor would I suggest that they are cheating or playing against the spirit of the game, but you mount that horse, just be careful when you have to come down, you seem to be a very long way up.

blue note

kiers47 wrote: »

Funny you should mention "Spirit of the game".
This is also mentioned in the rules book. Which clearly you dont seem to know to much about as you seem to be confusing rules from water hazards with balls unplayable.

But anyway the rules state the "The Spirit of the game" is as follows

Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

So there you have it the spirit of the game that you are clinging to tells players to abide by the rules.

Demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times.

To me that would include honesty when judging whether or not your ball is playable. I would consider it unsporting for someone to call a ball unplayable to gain an advantage when you know it's easily playable, just because you can't be challenged on it.

I'm not sure where I've confused water hazard rules unplayable balls rules?

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

I would consider it unsporting for someone to call a ball unplayable to gain an advantage when you know it's easily playable, just because you can't be challenged on it.

Maybe easily playable by you!

You keep ignoring the scenario of playing a shot left handed.
Would you consider this unplayable or not?

kiers47

blue note wrote: »

Demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times.

To me that would include honesty when judging whether or not your ball is playable. I would consider it unsporting for someone to call a ball unplayable to gain an advantage when you know it's easily playable, just because you can't be challenged on it.

I'm not sure where I've confused water hazard rules unplayable balls rules?

You remind me of this kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8RB7UZHKI

Have a good one.
Definitely done this time. :pac:

blue note

elbagarihno wrote: »

It's not a poorly worded rule, it's just one you feel the need to disagree with. I didn't write the rule, nor do I necessarily agree with it, but the fact remains that it is there in the rules of Golf and people can use it to their advantage should they so wish.

I have no right, moral or otherwise, to judge that person should they do so, nor would I suggest that they are cheating or playing against the spirit of the game, but you mount that horse, just be careful when you have to come down, you seem to be a very long way up.

Why would they include the word unplayable if they didn't mean unplayable? It's not a random word they used. It's a rule for what to do if you have an unplayable ball for God's sake!

blue note

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe easily playable by you!

You keep ignoring the scenario of playing a shot left handed.
Would you consider this unplayable or not?

Depends on the player. I'm happy for them to call it themselves, I just want people to be honest in doing it rather than considering it always an option if they do something stupid on the golf course. If they consider it unplayable then fine. I just want them to actually think it's unplayable if they're calling it as unplayable.

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

Once you continued with the Provo (and finished out) your score with the provo was valid.

yea but it wasn't a provo. We were all virtually certain the ball went in the hazard so i took a drop at the hazard.

elbagarihno

blue note wrote: »

Why would they include the word unplayable if they didn't mean unplayable? It's not a random word they used. It's a rule for what to do if you have an unplayable ball for God's sake!

And so to the crux of the issue, what does unplayable actually mean?

kennethrhcp

if this rule was used by my opponent in a matchplay round... I wouldn't care tbh! I'd want to have messed up fair bad for him to still be in contention for the hole after taking a penalty stroke & replaying from where he was.

in stroke play comp... I don't know how I feel about the rule being used so freely. but it's there to be used so people will will

blue note

elbagarihno wrote: »

And so to the crux of the issue, what does unplayable actually mean?

I'm even relatively easy going on that. If you can make a reasonable case for it then fine. I don't want anyone to put themselves in danger taking a shot from the side of a cliff or up a tree. I just have a problem when there's no reasonable case to be made but someone calls it unplayable.

Benildus

Here's a matchplay story (sorry for interrupting the rules discussion in the matchplay stories thread):

Played in a society v society Ryder Cup style match at Fota a few years ago, I was off 14, my opponent off 6 and he was a complete and utter head-the-ball.

• He brought a caddy; an intern from his engineering office, who was initially delighted to get out of the office.
• He was a guy who needed to psyche himself up before most shots by shouting (yes shouting) at himself. For example when standing over an 8 foot birdie putt "come on now John, make this, ****ing make it" and when he didn't make it he would call himself a "****ing eejit" and lob his putter at his caddy.
• When I went one up after the 5th, he stopped talking to me and his caddy until he got back ahead (on the 9th)
• After I went one up again on the 12th, he started talking to himself over every shot and even discussing what club to use with himself "it's an easy 7 iron, yeah but if I hit a hard 8 I won't go long. Hit the 8, hit the 8 John"
• He eventually won on the 17th and was as nice as pie as we played our way in down the 18th

A memorable guy

Break80

Benildus wrote: »

Here's a matchplay story (sorry for interrupting the rules discussion in the matchplay stories thread):

Played in a society v society Ryder Cup style match at Fota a few years ago, I was off 14, my opponent off 6 and he was a complete and utter head-the-ball.

• He brought a caddy; an intern from his engineering office, who was initially delighted to get out of the office.
• He was a guy who needed to psyche himself up before most shots by shouting (yes shouting) at himself. For example when standing over an 8 foot birdie putt "come on now John, make this, ****ing make it" and when he didn't make it he would call himself a "****ing eejit" and lob his putter at his caddy.
• When I went one up after the 5th, he stopped talking to me and his caddy until he got back ahead (on the 9th)
• After I went one up again on the 12th, he started talking to himself over every shot and even discussing what club to use with himself "it's an easy 7 iron, yeah but if I hit a hard 8 I won't go long. Hit the 8, hit the 8 John"
• He eventually won on the 17th and was as nice as pie as we played our way in down the 18th

A memorable guy

Fair Play Benildus.
I was enjoying this thread up to page 9.:mad::mad::mad:

stockdam

Deleted..........thread's going round in circles.

ChippingSodbury

Benildus wrote: »

Here's a matchplay story (sorry for interrupting the rules discussion in the matchplay stories thread):

Played in a society v society Ryder Cup style match at Fota a few years ago, I was off 14, my opponent off 6 and he was a complete and utter head-the-ball.

• He brought a caddy; an intern from his engineering office, who was initially delighted to get out of the office.
• He was a guy who needed to psyche himself up before most shots by shouting (yes shouting) at himself. For example when standing over an 8 foot birdie putt "come on now John, make this, ****ing make it" and when he didn't make it he would call himself a "****ing eejit" and lob his putter at his caddy.
• When I went one up after the 5th, he stopped talking to me and his caddy until he got back ahead (on the 9th)
• After I went one up again on the 12th, he started talking to himself over every shot and even discussing what club to use with himself "it's an easy 7 iron, yeah but if I hit a hard 8 I won't go long. Hit the 8, hit the 8 John"
• He eventually won on the 17th and was as nice as pie as we played our way in down the 18th

A memorable guy

Talking about talking to yourself, there's a lad in our club who's always talking to himself, let's call him John. Anyway, after missing a relatively short putt, his opponent hears him talking to himself "FFS John, we talked about this last night..."

prawnsambo

Break80 wrote: »

Fair Play Benildus.
I was enjoying this thread up to page 9.:mad::mad::mad:

You know you can set your preferences to show up to 40 posts per page? I highly reccomend it as you'd only have two pages to skip.

Deise Vu

This is almost entirely against myself but I still classify it as my matchplay horror show. I was playing a guy who was deeply unpleasant, no craic at all and his only conversation was about how he is normally so much better than that day and all the (alleged) luck I was getting. I was playing well though and was 3 up with 4 to go when I pushed a drive on a par 5. No biggie, I just needed to play a recovery and move on because the guy hit a duck hook into an absolute jungle about 80 yards up and 20 yards in. He hit a good provo and I headed off to find my ball as I reckoned Lassie wouldn't find his first ball if it was covered in Chanel No 5 and I thought he would go straight to his provo.

Lo and behold, when I arrived at my ball I turned around and there was your man, only 30 yards behind, middle of the fairway. "I found my ball on the edge of the rough and got it to here". Realising I had been done I then suffered brain freeze for the rest of the round, I boned my recovery straight across the fairway into the jungle and ended up conceding the hole. Lost the next, halved the 17th and was standing on the 18th staring into a low sun while your man chatted loudly with two buddies who had finished on the 16th and joined us. When I hit my drive I hadn't a clue where it went with the sun in my eyes, needless to say you man and his buddies were no help so I hit a provo. I always carry a spare ball as it drives me insane seeing fellas walking back to their bags as if they never hit a bad drive in their lives. I quickly teed up, hit away and walked off and when I found one of my balls realised, with all the crap going on behind me on the tee (and in my head), that I wasn't sure which ball I had used first. I had no alternative but to concede the hole again and I lost the first playoff hole.

I pray that someday I will be drawn again against the guy as I see him regularly and have to say hello through gritted teeth.

Seve OB

Deise Vu wrote: »

This is almost entirely against myself but I still classify it as my matchplay horror show. I was playing a guy who was deeply unpleasant, no craic at all and his only conversation was about how he is normally so much better than that day and all the (alleged) luck I was getting. I was playing well though and was 3 up with 4 to go when I pushed a drive on a par 5. No biggie, I just needed to play a recovery and move on because the guy hit a duck hook into an absolute jungle about 80 yards up and 20 yards in. He hit a good provo and I headed off to find my ball as I reckoned Lassie wouldn't find his first ball if it was covered in Chanel No 5 and I thought he would go straight to his provo.

Lo and behold, when I arrived at my ball I turned around and there was your man, only 30 yards behind, middle of the fairway. "I found my ball on the edge of the rough and got it to here". Realising I had been done I then suffered brain freeze for the rest of the round, I boned my recovery straight across the fairway into the jungle and ended up conceding the hole. Lost the next, halved the 17th and was standing on the 18th staring into a low sun while your man chatted loudly with two buddies who had finished on the 16th and joined us. When I hit my drive I hadn't a clue where it went with the sun in my eyes, needless to say you man and his buddies were no help so I hit a provo. I always carry a spare ball as it drives me insane seeing fellas walking back to their bags as if they never hit a bad drive in their lives. I quickly teed up, hit away and walked off and when I found one of my balls realised, with all the crap going on behind me on the tee (and in my head), that I wasn't sure which ball I had used first. I had no alternative but to concede the hole again and I lost the first playoff hole.

I pray that someday I will be drawn again against the guy as I see him regularly and have to say hello through gritted teeth.

honestly I dont think that yer man sounded that bad at all.
I have no idea if he cheated no more than you do, but if you think someone does ever cheat, you should question them.

raises an interesting point though for matchplay and goes to prove a lot of the game can be a mental one much more so than any other version of the sport. you need to be strong mentally to play matchplay well.

Regarding 2 balls, i only ever have one in my pocket and play that all the time. if you carry 2 balls and chop and change bewteen them from hole to hole, then you really only have yourself to blame for not knowing what ball you hit when.

Deise Vu

Seve OB wrote: »

honestly I dont think that yer man sounded that bad at all.
I have no idea if he cheated no more than you do, but if you think someone does ever cheat, you should question them.

raises an interesting point though for matchplay and goes to prove a lot of the game can be a mental one much more so than any other version of the sport. you need to be strong mentally to play matchplay well.

Regarding 2 balls, i only ever have one in my pocket and play that all the time. if you carry 2 balls and chop and change bewteen them from hole to hole, then you really only have yourself to blame for not knowing what ball you hit when.

My post was too long to get into how unpleasant the guy was. Maybe we just didn't click.

You are 100% right on the rest.

Regarding the two balls, I would always have my No. 1 ball and my provo. It was just that I couldn't remember this time had I played my No 1 ball first. My mind was just blank.

Edit: As regards the potential "cheating" he had been extremely fortunate in finding wayward balls earlier in the round. On this particular hole he managed to find and identify a ball in waist deep rough, select a club, go through his routine and play a great shot while still keeping pace with me and I walk like Robert Heffernan on a golf course (for speed not the ridiculous waddle!).

blue note

Seve OB wrote: »

I have no idea if he cheated no more than you do, but if you think someone does ever cheat, you should question them.

I'd want to be fairly sure before even suggesting someone cheated. An accidental rule break fine, but a cheating accusation is serious. What do you think will happen if you can't back it up?

"Did you actually find it or did you throw down a ball and play that?"

"I actually found it."

"Okay so."

Seve OB

how about when he tells you he found his ball in the semi rough you say something like

"Really? Your tee shot was heading for deep jungle. Are you 100% sure it was your own ball?"

Maybe give him a look to let him know you are wise to his tricks.

I wouldnt call him a cheat, ever. If someone wants to cheat, let them. They will get caught eventually. And If I actually caught someone cheating (which I have), I would tell them that what they are doing is breaking the rules rather than cheating.

slingerz

I find this thread to be probably the best i've read in a while! I recently played a stroke qualifier at another club and somehow qualified for a open matchplay competition. This thread really gives you good tips in the mental preparation side of matchplay.

In matchplay what would you prefer:

-Be longer off the tee than your opponent putting them under pressure to hit the green first with a longer club than you will be using
- Be shorter off the tee but give yourself the opportunity yo put your opponent under pressure by hitting the green?

- Would you have a policy for conceding putts or
- Would you take each putt scenario on its merits

I'm no rules expert but i would like to consider myself to be pretty fair. Would carrying a rules book in your bag be a good idea?

ChippingSodbury

slingerz wrote: »

I find this thread to be probably the best i've read in a while! I recently played a stroke qualifier at another club and somehow qualified for a open matchplay competition. This thread really gives you good tips in the mental preparation side of matchplay.

In matchplay what would you prefer:

-Be longer off the tee than your opponent putting them under pressure to hit the green first with a longer club than you will be using
- Be shorter off the tee but give yourself the opportunity yo put your opponent under pressure by hitting the green?

- Would you have a policy for conceding putts or
- Would you take each putt scenario on its merits

I'm no rules expert but i would like to consider myself to be pretty fair. Would carrying a rules book in your bag be a good idea?

Be way longer off the tee is nice: then you have the choice of whether or not you want to outdrive him e.g. playing iron/ 3wd from tee. If you can't outdrive him, that choice isn't available! Somtimes you can really intimidate someone by being loooong but it also works the other way: getting it in close first can get a fella thinking...so really depends on who you're playing!

There should only be one policy on conceding putts: if you're ABSOLUTELY sure he can't miss, then concede it, otherwise see the putt. Don't ever be upset being asked to take a short putt. Happy smiley face after every putt drops no matter what length. Never let you opponent get inside your head: it always ends badly!!

Everyone should have a rulebook in their bag, they're free. I have one but don;t bring my glasses so no good to me!!

elbagarihno

blue note wrote: »

I'm even relatively easy going on that. If you can make a reasonable case for it then fine. I don't want anyone to put themselves in danger taking a shot from the side of a cliff or up a tree. I just have a problem when there's no reasonable case to be made but someone calls it unplayable.

Ok, but 'unplayable' can be taken to simply mean difficult (check Collins for their definition). Therefore, if you consider a shot to be difficult, outside of your skills, you can declare it unplayable.

Maybe the rule should have never included the word unplayable: https://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/QuickGuide/Ball-Unplayable

Would you be happier if the rule was chaged to 'Options after every shot' and read as follows?

Options after every shot.

If your ball is in a water hazard and you do not wish to play it as it lies, you must proceed under the water hazard Rule - this Rule does not apply. Elsewhere on the course, if you so choose, you may, under penalty of one stroke:

1) play a ball from where your last shot was played, or
2) drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball finished, keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball finished and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or
3) drop a ball within two club-lengths of where the ball finished not nearer the hole.

If your ball is in a bunker you may proceed as above, except that if you are dropping back on a line or within two club-lengths, you must drop a ball in the bunker.

Promise that'll be my last post in this thread about 'that' rules discussion.

Seve OB

slingerz wrote: »

I find this thread to be probably the best i've read in a while! I recently played a stroke qualifier at another club and somehow qualified for a open matchplay competition. This thread really gives you good tips in the mental preparation side of matchplay.

In matchplay what would you prefer:

-Be longer off the tee than your opponent putting them under pressure to hit the green first with a longer club than you will be using
- Be shorter off the tee but give yourself the opportunity yo put your opponent under pressure by hitting the green?

- Would you have a policy for conceding putts or
- Would you take each putt scenario on its merits

I'm no rules expert but i would like to consider myself to be pretty fair. Would carrying a rules book in your bag be a good idea?

prefer.... be on the fairway... or in play at the very least. dont worry about who plays first into the green.

watch where the shots are given/conceded

always have a rule book... or the app - book is handier if you need to look something up straight away though

no policy for conceding, if it's tricky, make him putt it. if its a tap in, give it. if it is to win the match...... always make him take it