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Query: multiple tenants want another tenant gone

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  • 26-03-2018 11:04pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    So, I've a property with 4 people staying there, all of whom have signed the lease and are now Part-IV. One tenant recently contacted me looking to extend the lease for another year as the 1 year lease is due to expire end of June. I agreed in principle and explained I would call up to ask all tenants to sign an extension, no problem from their end.

    I've since discovered that the reason this tenant wanted to get the new lease so early is that they are causing trouble for the others. They initially agreed, unknown to me with, that they would only be there for X amount of months, and would be moving down the country. The others were happy to cover the rent shortfall after the move. They agreed to do this as a favour to the problem tenant as they were stuck and needed assistance.

    This move never materialised and she has gone back on her promise to either move home or find alternative accommodation. The others would like a new, fixed term lease for just the 3 of them. There are other issues such as playing music etc. but nothing to warrant an eviction or anything like that. I would prefer her to go, though, as the others have been fantastic tenants.

    Ideally, this person should never have been on the lease. It's too late to rectify this now though. I've told them informally that I cannot choose who, out of the 4 of them, stays and who doesn't, and they should try to come to some sort of solution themselves.

    Their plan is to ask her to agree to leave or they will find new accommodation themselves, leaving her with the full rent to pay. They're confident she will not be able to do this.

    My question is, can she turn around and say "I have 3 of my fiends who would like to take over their part of the lease?"....i.e. is it open to her to reassign their part of the agreement?

    If not, can I give them all valid notice and re-let the house to whomever I wish?

    Would there be any issue with re-letting the house to the 3 'good' tenants?


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    #2
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    I'm only speculating here based on the RTA. You can have the 3 move out and the tenancy is still active. All the tenants remain jointly and severally liable to the rent and you can request the full rent from the 4th tenant. You are not obliged to accept any other people as sub-tenants or licensees. You will only get the property back after the 4th tenant leaves, either by themselves or by a valid notice of termination (which may then become a protracted case at the RTB and courts).

    Problems with the above:
    1. It's time consuming.
    2. It leaves the other 3 nowhere to live in the interim.
    3. The 4th tenant may not play ball (stop paying rent, sublet without consent, etc.) and you could end up with problems getting the house back (and in what shape).
    4. It's not exactly a nice way to do business.

    What would be a better way to do it is ask the tenants to sort it themselves as you're not their parent, but since this person is a bit of a problem tenant ask the 3 tenants to report any breach of the 4th one's obligations which would result in the termination of a tenancy. In that instance you can use Section 51 to terminate the Part 4 tenancy rights of the 4th tenant alone and give correct notice for them to leave. If they haven't done anything to breach their obligations then they're just going to have to sort it on their own.


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    #3
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You are talking here about the relations between tenants. Tenancy law does not really govern this relationship, nor does it really have anything to do with you as the landlord.

    The problem ultimately is that they don’t want to live with her. This is a domestic issue and they say they have an agreement between themselves that she would leave. They need to be clear to her that they want her to leave. They need to pay her back her share of the deposit. Tell them you are happy enough to allow her name to be taken off the lease when she leaves (so she is no longer responsible for the property or the rent).

    Even if you wanted to, you can’t really terminate one tenant without evicting all the others. It really would make no sense.

    If they really can’t sort this out, the best thing is for them all to leave and for you to get new tenants.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    If they really can’t sort this out, the best thing is for them all to leave and for you to get new tenants.

    I agree. What I'd like to know is, If i say "okay, all 4 of you are gone", put it back on the market, and whittle the prospective tenants down to the other 3.....am i leaving myself open to being dragged before the RTB?


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    #5
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I agree. What I'd like to know is, If i say "okay, all 4 of you are gone", put it back on the market, and whittle the prospective tenants down to the other 3.....am i leaving myself open to being dragged before the RTB?

    Under what reasoning are you issuing notice of termination?


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    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    I'm only speculating here based on the RTA. You can have the 3 move out and the tenancy is still active. All the tenants remain jointly and severally liable to the rent and you can request the full rent from the 4th tenant. You are not obliged to accept any other people as sub-tenants or licensees. You will only get the property back after the 4th tenant leaves, either by themselves or by a valid notice of termination (which may then become a protracted case at the RTB and courts).

    Problems with the above:
    1. It's time consuming.
    2. It leaves the other 3 nowhere to live in the interim.
    3. The 4th tenant may not play ball (stop paying rent, sublet without consent, etc.) and you could end up with problems getting the house back (and in what shape).
    4. It's not exactly a nice way to do business.

    What would be a better way to do it is ask the tenants to sort it themselves as you're not their parent, but since this person is a bit of a problem tenant ask the 3 tenants to report any breach of the 4th one's obligations which would result in the termination of a tenancy. In that instance you can use Section 51 to terminate the Part 4 tenancy rights of the 4th tenant alone and give correct notice for them to leave. If they haven't done anything to breach their obligations then they're just going to have to sort it on their own.

    Thanks for that. I agree it isn't very nice, alright. The bit in bold is what I was wary of taking place.

    I'll just have to sit down with them and tell them it's up to them to sort it out.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Under what reasoning are you issuing notice of termination?

    Apologies, bad wording. I wouldn't be terminating the lease.

    If the 3 of them say they wish to find somewhere else and terminate their part of the lease, it would leave number 4 to pay the rent on her own. If she can't, she'd also have to terminate the lease on her part.


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    #8
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Apologies, bad wording. I wouldn't be terminating the lease.

    If the 3 of them say they wish to find somewhere else and terminate their part of the lease, it would leave number 4 to pay the rent on her own. If she can't, she'd also have to terminate the lease on her part.

    Yes if that were to happen there would be no obligation on you to offer the tenancy back to the 4th tenant if you had the other 3 back. It would be a new tenancy with no mechanism in the RTA for rights of the 4th on a new tenancy they were never part of.


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