Mgt Co. imposes clamping to collect debt

Hungrycol

Greendoor Management company in my area have imposed car parking sanctions including clamping company and parking permits that are only provided on payment of annual subs. I pay my annual subs but I have also experienced clamping in car parks for residential areas and it's a constant headache for residents, visitors, family, service workers, carers, etc.

I'm really annoyed by this, been living there for 14 years without any parking problem and now I'm shafted those that don't pay their annual subs. I have also heard it devalues the area.

Is this normal?

Michael D Not Higgins

Yes it's normal.

Dial Hard

Hungrycol wrote: »

I'm really annoyed by this, been living there for 14 years without any parking problem and now I'm shafted those that don't pay their annual subs.

How are you being shafted? You pay your management fees so you'll get a permit, no?

Kyta

Just 1 of the hazards of living in managed property in my opinion.

Hungrycol

So it's normal for a management company to impose whatever they want regardless of the consequences to homeowners?

Dial Hard

Hungrycol wrote: »

So it's normal for a management company to impose whatever they want regardless of the consequences to homeowners?

You do realise the management company is the homeowners, right?

Michael D Not Higgins

Hungrycol wrote: »

So it's normal for a management company to impose whatever they want regardless of the consequences to homeowners?

The homeowners are the management company. The agent is appointed by the homeowners to manage the day-to-day and the homeowners have AGMs where they vote on measures such as these. In other words, the agent didn't just decide to bring in permits and clamping, they were instructed to do so by you and your neighbours.

Hungrycol

Dial Hard wrote: »

How are you being shafted? You pay your management fees so you'll get a permit, no?

My mother lives in a block where clamping was imposed and now she can't have more than one visitor at any one time, meaning her family or friends can't visit her all at once. In her experience they are a pain for the residents.

I'm more peeed off that Greendoor used this to collect their dept instead of pursuing the defaulters.

Hungrycol

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The homeowners are the management company. The agent is appointed by the homeowners to manage the day-to-day and the homeowners have AGMs where they vote on measures such as these. In other words, the agent didn't just decide to bring in permits and clamping, they were instructed to do so by you and your neighbours.

I couldn't attend the AGM when this was voted through. So this is a case of tough-sh!t?

Michael D Not Higgins

Hungrycol wrote: »

My mother lives in a block where clamping was imposed and not she can't have more than one visitor at any one time, meaning her family or friends can't visit her all at once. In her experience they are a pain for the residents.

I'm more peeed off that Greendoor used this to collect their dept instead of pursuing the defaulters.

It's not their debt, it's the owners management company's debt which is the company made up by you and your neighbours. The agents are only appointed to carry out the remit given to them by the OMC.

amcalester

Hungrycol wrote: »

My mother lives in a block where clamping was imposed and now she can't have more than one visitor at any one time, meaning her family or friends can't visit her all at once. In her experience they are a pain for the residents.

I'm more peeed off that Greendoor used this to collect their dept instead of pursuing the defaulters.

Greendoor would have proposed this method but it is the owners who voted for it.

Greendoor work for you and the other owners.

Hungrycol

amcalester wrote: »

Greendoor would have proposed this method but it is the owners who voted for it.

Greendoor work for you and the other owners.

I need to hold of the minutes of the last AGM so.

Michael D Not Higgins

Hungrycol wrote: »

I couldn't attend the AGM when this was voted through. So this is a case of tough-sh!t?

Would your vote have swayed the result? It's unlikely. Your neighbours who attended the AGM voted for this.

amcalester

Hungrycol wrote: »

I need to hold of the minutes of the last AGM so.

Yeah, check that proper procedures were followed. Were there enough people in attendance to hold a binding vote on the matter etc

Doop

Hungrycol wrote: »

I need to hold of the minutes of the last AGM so.

And the MUD Act 2011

happyfriday74

This is quite normal.

Its nearly standard practice for a management agent to only hand out permits to those who have paid up to date or are on an agreed payment plan/standing order.

hawkelady

Hungrycol wrote: »

Dial Hard wrote: »

How are you being shafted? You pay your management fees so you'll get a permit, no?

My mother lives in a block where clamping was imposed and now she can't have more than one visitor at any one time, meaning her family or friends can't visit her all at once. In her experience they are a pain for the residents.

I'm more peeed off that Greendoor used this to collect their dept instead of pursuing the defaulters.

There would be a text service that you text in your reg and it would save you getting clamped so your mother can have everyone over st once if she wanted.
Why are you bothered about this unless you haven't paid your subs ?

Caranica

It's not necessarily permanent. We're considering bringing it in to our development to deal with a mounting debt issue. If we do it will be short term.

It's not an easy option and would be way down the list of ways to collect fees. In our case it will be the last resort. Instead of being angry at the introduction of permit parking, be angry at your neighbours and fellow owners who are reneging on their legal contracts where they agreed to pay their management fees.

SteM

hawkelady wrote: »

There would be a text service that you text in your reg and it would save you getting clamped so your mother can have everyone over st once if she wanted.

Every complex handles things differently so you can't say this for sure.

loyatemu

it's very difficult for Mgmt companies to pursue deadbeat owners - taking legal action is expensive and lengthy. They often choose parking regulations as a way of annoying the non-payers into paying up. If you have a better idea, go to the next AGM and propose it.

Hasmunch

Hungrycol wrote: »

I'm really annoyed by this, been living there for 14 years without any parking problem and now I'm shafted those that don't pay their annual subs.

You were being shafted before anyway as they weren't paying their subs.

Hungrycol

loyatemu wrote: »

it's very difficult for Mgmt companies to pursue deadbeat owners - taking legal action is expensive and lengthy. They often choose parking regulations as a way of annoying the non-payers into paying up. If you have a better idea, go to the next AGM and propose it.

Why can't they sell the debt to debt collectors? It might encourage compliance next time.

amcalester

Hungrycol wrote: »

Why can't they sell the debt to debt collectors? It might encourage compliance next time.

Why would they sell the debt for cents on the Euro when they (and by they I mean you) could get the full amount by other means?

Hungrycol

Hungrycol wrote: »

My mother lives in a block where clamping was imposed and now she can't have more than one visitor at any one time, meaning her family or friends can't visit her all at once. In her experience they are a pain for the residents.

I'm more peeed off that Greendoor used this to collect their dept instead of pursuing the defaulters.

Sounds great, neighbours of mine hog one visitor space 100% of the time (they have a designated space themselves) and when they have visitors another 1 or 2 visitor spaces are taken up. There's 1 visitor space for every 4 apartments where I am.

If you want to cater for multiple visitors who have cars than live somewhere that facilitates that.

Hungrycol

amcalester wrote: »

Why would they sell the debt for cents on the Euro when they (and by they I mean you) could get the full amount by other means?

Cos at the moment they're getting nothing. Clamping pisses off everyone. The landlords, of which there are many, couldn't give a feck if their tenants get clamped. Just tells them to park somewhere else.

Graham

Hungrycol wrote: »

Cos at the moment they're getting nothing. Clamping pisses off everyone. The landlords, of which there are many, couldn't give a feck if their tenants get clamped. Just tells them to park somewhere else.

Most people would be fairly unhappy if their service charges increased to cover the written-off amounts.

They probably already have increased but at least your owners management company stands a good prospect of recouping the losses at whatever point in the future the errant owners properties are sold.

TSQ

Hungrycol wrote: »

Why can't they sell the debt to debt collectors? It might encourage compliance next time.

Why would you sell the debt? You engage a firm of solicitors who specialise in debt collection. All costs associated with collection of the debt fall on the debtor. If the debt is unpaid the case goes to court. In our development, once the case is listed for hearing the debtor pays up, and we never settle for less than the full amount owed (including collection charges). We have never actually had to take anyone to court, the threat has been enough, but if the owner didn't pay up a lien would be put on the apartment - or other property owned by the debtor - which could be sold to collect the debt. You could be waiting a long time for the money in this case, I know, if it is an owner-occupier, but it would be a very tiny percentage of owners who would allow it to get this far. We put a payment plan in place to pay off the arrears if reasonable and if the owner plays ball.

Also, when setting fees in our complex, we set a high fee and give a big discount to those who pay on time. This encourages owners to pay up when asked and means that the messers pay more - usually the same one or two idiots year after year as it happens.

Lantus

Hungrycol wrote:

I'm really annoyed by this, been living there for 14 years without any parking problem and now I'm shafted those that don't pay their annual subs. I have also heard it devalues the area.

If your omc don't get fees then services are not paid for. Insurance, maintenance, lifts etc. Non payers will be happy to not pay without consequence. The problem will is yours as with every owner.

Clamping is undesirable but economic and effective in getting people on a plan to pay to avoid future problems.

Owners can opt to remove when they reach say 95% or whatever payment overall.

Court handles the rest but it's an expensive route. Solicitors letters and a court date may be 300 euro which the omc needs to pay. Good for hardened offenders but a wise omc takes alternate routes to fee income.

TSQ

Lantus wrote: »

Court handles the rest but it's an expensive route. Solicitors letters and a court date may be 300 euro which the omc needs to pay. Good for hardened offenders but a wise omc takes alternate routes to fee income.

Any fees associated with pursuing the debt, from the first solicitors letter up to a full on court case (which we have never had to undertake, as we have always got paid in the end) fall on the debtor. The OMC may have to pay the solicitor's fees but will always (in our experience) recoup this money in the end from the debtor. If you play hardball a couple of times - and make it known - most people catch on in the end.

antoinolachtnai

You could be legally right; the OMC might have no right to do this. If you want to fight this it will cost a lot of money.

It would make a lot more sense for non-payers to pay. They will have to pay in the end anyway.

Nothing devalues property like badly maintained common areas.

pauliebdub

There was a attempt to impose clamping in my estate a while back, pushed through on the sly at a poorly attended agm. There was uproar over it, very few people actually wanted it and an emergency agm was called and it was reversed.