Russian Foreign Policy Megamix

Gringo180

demfad wrote: »

They are right to refuse her. She will be used to pass on threats to the daughter. No doubt she is under threat and coercion herself. The Russian state really has fully regressed under Putin.

Your a remarkably well informed man. How on earth do you know she would be used to pass on threats?

Dohnjoe

demfad wrote: »

They are right to refuse her. She will be used to pass on threats to the daughter. No doubt she is under threat and coercion herself. The Russian state really has fully regressed under Putin.

I'd go with carrot and stick. More likely to be carrot considering the intense focus on this. If this Viktoria character is smart she knows she has everything to gain from this situation

Sergei is a different matter altogether, his survival is going to give Moscow a serious headache. Harder to play the "inside job" conspiracy when they both live.

Discodog

Gringo180 wrote: »

Your a remarkably well informed man. How on earth do you know she would be used to pass on threats?

She has appeared on State TV & been mentioned by the Russian government. Of course it wouldn't be a "normal" family visit. The Russians want her to be accompanied by "embassy officials".

Discodog

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I'd go with carrot and stick. More likely to be carrot considering the intense focus on this. If this Viktoria character is smart she knows she has everything to gain from this situation

Sergei is a different matter altogether, his survival is going to give Moscow a serious headache. Harder to play the "inside job" conspiracy when they both live.

His recovery puts Putin in a really difficult situation & a dangerous one for Sergei & his daughter. For example he could have them both shot & then use it to reinforce his claim that it had nothing to do with Russia - a robbery gone wrong or a convenient car accident, house fire etc.

miocicmma

So this guy was a spy working for the UK against Russia? Why are people surprised he was killed? The UK would do the exact same thing if the tables were turned. Imagine if a British man, working for the Russians, was spying on the UK, helping Russia to take down the UK. You don't thin the British would kill him?

Discodog

miocicmma wrote: »

So this guy was a spy working for the UK against Russia? Why are people surprised he was killed? The UK would do the exact same thing if the tables were turned. Imagine if a British man, working for the Russians, was spying on the UK, helping Russia to take down the UK. You don't thin the British would kill him?

The only one claiming surprise is Putin.

Dohnjoe

Russian embassy now seeking negotiations with Boris, could be a sign that they're worried about OPCW results, the recovery of Sergei and UK progress/intelligence on the case

cnocbui

miocicmma wrote: »

So this guy was a spy working for the UK against Russia? Why are people surprised he was killed? The UK would do the exact same thing if the tables were turned. Imagine if a British man, working for the Russians, was spying on the UK, helping Russia to take down the UK. You don't thin the British would kill him?

Could you give examples of ex British intelligence officers being assassinated please, because I think you don't know what you are talking about.

cnocbui

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Russian embassy now seeking negotiations with Boris, could be a sign that they're worried about OPCW results, the recovery of Sergei and UK progress/intelligence on the case

I think the progress is probably far greater than we might suspect.

Remember in the early days of the investigation it was reported that police were seeking information on a Russian 'couple' who were seen in Salisbury near the Skripals? They also said the couple had flown to Russia that same day. That is some pretty precise information right there. They would also have to know the names they traveled under and full passport details.

More recently, there was an article saying that police suspected a woman who travelled to the UK on the same flight as Yulia and that she only spent a few hours in the UK before returning to Russia. It also said they know her identity.

That FSB stooge, cousin Viktoria, alleged the culprit was likely a senior female FSB agent who didn't want Yulia marrying her son. This was when Viktoria was knowledgeably putting it about that the Skripals prognosis wasn't good:

The niece of the poisoned former Russian spy Sergei Skripal has said he and his daughter Yulia have only a slim chance of surviving.

Viktoria Skripal said the prognosis for both “really isn’t good” following the novichok nerve agent attack in Salisbury, Wiltshire, on 4 March.

She told the BBC: “Out of 99% I have maybe 1% of hope. Whatever it was has given them a very small chance of survival. But they’re going to be invalids for the rest of their lives.”

I wonder if yulia will be very surprised to learn she was about to marry the son of a senior FSB mother in law from hell?

Putin's pack of lies is unraveling very rapidly. The way they are using Viktoria as a stooge to try and sow disinformation and lies is so transparent it's like a carricature part in a comedy film.

Discodog

cnocbui wrote: »

I think the progress is probably far greater than we might suspect.

Remember in the early days of the investigation it was reported that police were seeking information on a Russian 'couple' who were seen in Salisbury near the Skripals? They also said the couple had flown to Russia that same day. That is some pretty precise information right there. They would also have to know the names they traveled under and full passport details.

More recently, there was an article saying that police suspected a woman who travelled to the UK on the same flight as Yulia and that she only spent a few hours in the UK before returning to Russia. It also said they know her identity.

That FSB stooge, cousin Viktoria, alleged the culprit was likely a senior female FSB agent who didn't want Yulia marrying her son. This was when Viktoria was knowledgeably putting it about that the Skripals prognosis wasn't good:



I wonder if yulia will be very surprised to learn she was about to marry the son of a senior FSB mother in law from hell?

Putin's pack of lies is unraveling very rapidly. The way they are using Viktoria as a stooge to try and sow disinformation and lies is so transparent it's like a carricature part in a comedy film.

I think it might be a sign that, someone in Putin's trust, is telling him that the constant belittling & insults just make Russia look even worse. Waving copies of Alice in Wonderland & quoting Midsummer Murders isn't how to conduct diplomacy.

I suspect that the UK will seek a firm commitment from Russia that no further action will be taken against anyone in the UK.

It will be up to the OPCW to report & for the UN, EU & Nato to act.

Chrongen

demfad wrote: »

They are right to refuse her. She will be used to pass on threats to the daughter. No doubt she is under threat and coercion herself. The Russian state really has fully regressed under Putin.

The excuses have entered the Twilight Zone.

If she will be used to pass on threats then why not record her conversations and catch her in the act? Wouldn't that serve the purposes of those who are trying to sell this garbage story?

What excuse will be invented for this? That Yulia Skripal's cousin speaks an undecipherable coded language?

Chrongen

Discodog wrote: »

His recovery puts Putin in a really difficult situation & a dangerous one for Sergei & his daughter. For example he could have them both shot & then use it to reinforce his claim that it had nothing to do with Russia - a robbery gone wrong or a convenient car accident, house fire etc.

Would you care to explain all the inconsistencies in Britain's version of events?

Would you also care to explain how you knew that Putin ordered this assassination attempt and how you know that the poison used originated in Russia when experts at Porton Down can't do so?

It has now gotten to the stage that you simply want to believe that Putin ordered this no matter what facts are presented to you. And that right there is the sign of entrenchment in one's views.

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

The excuses have entered the Twilight Zone.

If she will be used to pass on threats then why not record her conversations and catch her in the act? Wouldn't that serve the purposes of those who are trying to sell this garbage story?

What excuse will be invented for this? That Yulia Skripal's cousin speaks an undecipherable coded language?

Maybe as simple as Yulia didn't want to see her.

mcmoustache

Chrongen wrote: »

Would you care to explain all the inconsistencies in Britain's version of events?

Would you also care to explain how you knew that Putin ordered this assassination attempt and how you know that the poison used originated in Russia when experts at Porton Down can't do so?

It has now gotten to the stage that you simply want to believe that Putin ordered this no matter what facts are presented to you. And that right there is the sign of entrenchment in one's views.

The inconsistency was Borris. He's a búllshít artist. He claimed that Porton Down said it came from Russia when it's not their job to find the origin.

What we know is:

1. It's novichok
2. Putin promised to kill traitors
3. An attempt was made on the life of one of these traitors
4. The UK had enough intelligence to convince skeptical countries that Russia did it

Now, speaking of inconsistent, have a look at the firehose of falsehood from russian media and its repeaters.

Chrongen

cnocbui wrote: »

Maybe as simple as Yulia didn't want to see her.

"Maybe"


Has the possibility of war now come down to your input that amounts to a "maybe" over a girl and her cousin?

Please say you have more than that.

mcmoustache

Chrongen wrote: »

Has the possibility of war now come down to your input that amounts to a "maybe" over a girl and her cousin?

The "Do you want war with Russia" talking point is so 2016. In any case, it's not a rational option for the west to just sit back while Russia drops turds in the punchbowl. Targetting his money might put some manners on the little shít.

Chrongen

mcmoustache wrote: »

The inconsistency was Borris. He's a búllshít artist. He claimed that Porton Down said it came from Russia when it's not their job to find the origin.

What we know is:

1. It's novichok
2. Putin promised to kill traitors
3. An attempt was made on the life of one of these traitors
4. The UK had enough intelligence to convince skeptical countries that Russia did it

Now, speaking of inconsistent, have a look at the firehose of falsehood from russian media and its repeaters.

Boris Johnson is the FOREIGN SECRETARY of a nuclear armed country.

For you to state that he is a "bullshitter" and his talk should be discounted is worrisome.

PM Teresa May is higher up in the pecking order and she too has lied to the public.

The fact that Johnson is a clown ought not detract from those facts.

Do you think that it is acceptable for the Foreign Secretary of the UK to:

(a) Lie about a very serious episode?
(b) Get away with it?
(c) Refuse to answer to those whom he has accused?

mcmoustache

Chrongen wrote: »

Boris Johnson is the FOREIGN SECRETARY of a nuclear armed country.

For you to state that he is a "bullshitter" and his talk should be discounted is worrisome.

PM Teresa May is higher up in the pecking order and she too has lied to the public.

The fact that Johnson is a clown ought not detract from those facts.

Do you think that it is acceptable for the Foreign Secretary of the UK to:

(a) Lie about a very serious episode?
(b) Get away with it?
(c) Refuse to answer to those whom he has accused?

No, it's not acceptable. He should be sacked.

That doesn't change what we know happened, though.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

No, it's not acceptable. He should be sacked.

That doesn't change what we know happened, though.

I'll add to that that I have no particular love for the Brits. I'm Irish with a knowledge of history. However, Russia is also acting the bollox and this whole incident stinks of pickles. Russia's reaction in the aftermath was not that of a country who's citizens were attacked by a foreign power. It was the reaction of a country that's used to killing its own citizens abroad.

Chrongen

mcmoustache wrote: »

No, it's not acceptable. He should be sacked.

That doesn't change what we know happened, though.

What happened?

This entire Skripal episode is a joke and you have allowed yourself to be mugged in by it.

What happened?

WE?

I don't believe this crap and most people throughout Europe don't either. The Americans aren't banging the drum.....they know it's shit. That's why they're silent.

They dumped out a few diplomats to save face and circle the wagons.
Do you see Trump screaming about this being an attack on NATO? NO.

Why? Because it's a farce.

Poor cat was put down and burnt to death. Guinea pigs lived long enough in the house to starve to death. Miracle recovery for the Skripals that had been exposed to something 8 times more deadly than VX nerve gas (according to the Washington Post and the BBC).


I am thoroughly loving this mess of lies from the UK.

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

"Maybe"


Has the possibility of war now come down to your input that amounts to a "maybe" over a girl and her cousin?

Please say you have more than that.

Less of the nonsense melodrama.

'I' don't need more than that. I'm just speculating as an observer. It's the UK government who have the full picture on which they have based their decision.

Dohnjoe

So far no alternative theories

The fact that the Russian state almost certainly killed a spy on British soil using Polonium (that could be directly traced to one of their reactors) should put paid to incredulous questions about why they would kill a spy and leave a such a blatant calling card

It's simply down to the fact that the Kremlin can do this and get away with it. Regardless of international sanctions, it doesn't affect Putin's popularity and hold on power, if anything it solidifies it. If anyone is in any doubt as to where Putin's priorities lay they should keep in mind he's been in power longer than Stalin and is in for at least another 6 years.

Christy42

Chrongen wrote: »

"Maybe"


Has the possibility of war now come down to your input that amounts to a "maybe" over a girl and her cousin?

Please say you have more than that.

We are no where near war with Russia. A fee expelled diplomats does not equate war. Anytime Russia is accused of anything we get do you want war bull. No we don't want war.

Nothing that has happened deserves that ridiculous hyperbole.

miocicmma

cnocbui wrote: »

Could you give examples of ex British intelligence officers being assassinated please, because I think you don't know what you are talking about.

You seriously think the mainstream western media would publicise it? No The British would be far more subtle in how they deal with traitors.

ancapailldorcha

Chrongen wrote: »

What happened?

This entire Skripal episode is a joke and you have allowed yourself to be mugged in by it.

What happened?

WE?

I don't believe this crap and most people throughout Europe don't either. The Americans aren't banging the drum.....they know it's shit. That's why they're silent.

They dumped out a few diplomats to save face and circle the wagons.
Do you see Trump screaming about this being an attack on NATO? NO.

Why? Because it's a farce.

Poor cat was put down and burnt to death. Guinea pigs lived long enough in the house to starve to death. Miracle recovery for the Skripals that had been exposed to something 8 times more deadly than VX nerve gas (according to the Washington Post and the BBC).


I am thoroughly loving this mess of lies from the UK.

This is a forum for serious discussion. Please read the charter before posting again.

Discodog

Chrongen wrote: »

Would you care to explain all the inconsistencies in Britain's version of events?

Would you also care to explain how you knew that Putin ordered this assassination attempt and how you know that the poison used originated in Russia when experts at Porton Down can't do so?

It has now gotten to the stage that you simply want to believe that Putin ordered this no matter what facts are presented to you. And that right there is the sign of entrenchment in one's views.

No because it's pointless trying to explain to someone who is so fixed in their views. There are lots of excellent explanations in the old AH thread.

I have answered this question, from you, before.

cnocbui

miocicmma wrote: »

You seriously think the mainstream western media would publicise it? No The British would be far more subtle in how they deal with traitors.

You can't come up with a single instance? I am not surprised.

I suppose you think mainstream western media wouldn't publish topless photos of Kate Middleton, either.

Must be very convenient for the murdering UK government that none of their spies have friends or family to report their murders.

Dohnjoe

miocicmma wrote: »

You seriously think the mainstream western media would publicise it? No The British would be far more subtle in how they deal with traitors.

The affected countries media would most certainly be reporting it - please cite examples

This "mainstream Western media" is a lazy reference to hundreds of established outlets from a broad range of countries that have broken stories ranging from Iraq abuse to extraordinary rendition to Snowden and countless others. It's a trope often used by individuals who like to make up their own personal "alternative facts".

Discodog

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The affected countries media would most certainly be reporting it - please cite examples

This "mainstream Western media" is a lazy reference to hundreds of established outlets from a broad range of countries that have broken stories ranging from Iraq abuse to extraordinary rendition to Snowden and countless others. It's a trope often used by individuals who like to make up their own personal "alternative facts".

Plus the media is now anyone with a smartphone

charlie14

mcmoustache wrote: »

No, it's not acceptable. He should be sacked.

That doesn't change what we know happened, though.

Yeah on that.
Do we actually have any idea as to what happened ?

At the outset we were told that this nerve agent was so lethal that a chemist attempting to manufacture it in a laboratory would be killed instantly.
Yet now the latest theory appears to be that they were both sprayed with this nerve agent on the doorstep of their house.
How could this be even possible other than the person or persons spraying them wearing bio-hazard suits (highly unlikely) or having a death wish.