Russian Foreign Policy Megamix

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

OPCW confirm substance used to poison the skipals was "Novichok " of very high purity and no impurities found in the sample,


https://news.sky.com/story/chemical-watchdog-confirms-novichok-poisoned-sergei-skripal-11327382

The OPCW did not confirm that it was Novichok. The lying media are manipulating the report as I would expect them to do.
This Guardian headline claims that Novichok was used but read the article and it says this:

The executive summary released by the OPCW does not mention novichok by name,

A "report" not made public!!

The OPCW, which does identify the chemical by its complex formula in a classified report that has not been made public,

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/novichok-used-in-spy-poisoning-chemical-weapons-watchdog-confirms-salisbury

Discodog

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The OPCW did not confirm that it was Novichok. The lying media are manipulating the report as I would expect them to do.
This Guardian headline claims that Novichok was used but read the article and it says this:

A "report" not made public!!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/novichok-used-in-spy-poisoning-chemical-weapons-watchdog-confirms-salisbury

You conveniently forgot this bit:

“The results of the analysis by the OPCW designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirms the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people.”

cnocbui

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The OPCW did not confirm that it was Novichok. The lying media are manipulating the report as I would expect them to do.

Well, yes, I have always thought Sputnik News were lying media.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) —The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has confirmed that former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok nerve agent in the United Kingdom, the Sky News television channel reported Thursday.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201804121063477408-opcw-novichok-laboratory-skripal/

Being hoisted by one's own own petard, I believe it's called. :rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The lying media are manipulating the report as I would expect them to do.

This is what you've just done. Without a hint of irony.

mcmoustache

According to the guardian, the Russians had tried to hack Yulia's email and had also tested using door handles as a delivery mechanism.

Russia had tested whether door handles could be used to deliver nerve agents and had targeted the email accounts of Sergei and Yulia Skripal since at least 2013, according to previously classified intelligence over the Salisbury attack that has been made public.

Naturally, the Russians will produce their own report, presumably vindicating them and maybe blaming the Jews or the Tatars.

In response, the Russian ambassador in London Alexander Yakovenko announced that the embassy would be publishing its own report on the attack.

Of course, a Russian statement wouldn't be complete without a bit of whataboutism.

“The British Government still hasn’t produced any evidence in support of its position that would confirm their official version,” he told a press conference, at which he showed footage of Tony Blair apologising for intelligence mistakes made in the run-up to the Iraq war.

It's clear as day that the Russians don't want to convince the world that they didn't do it. If they did, the lies would at least be consistent. Instead, these lies are for willing participants only. The lies have too many contradictions and change daily - they could only be believed by people who really want to believe them, even if they make no sense - like attendees at a hypnotist's show.

mcmoustache

When dealing with any Russian related story, misinformation is a big part.

Here's an interesting editorial decision made by the Gateway Pundit.

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/985647520553594884

I know that the website is pro-trump but I'm not sure why they would be pro-russia.

Chrongen

You know something? These infantile games are becoming tiresome.

As an a accused "putinbot" I'll say "Hey, Russia tried to kill the Skripals. Russia determined who sits in the White House. Russia is going to gobble up the Baltics like they did in Crimea. Russia is bleeding at the teeth to send bombers all over Sweden and Ireland. Russia is about to take over the world."

There.

Now, what are you going to do about it?
Do something!

I'd like to see some action from the "West" to counter the red tide.
What are you going to do?

Chrongen

I would like to know if the missile strikes on Syria were a violation of international law.

The question is not about whether bombing another country was morally right. The question is was it LEGAL?

And if not then how does this look?

cnocbui

Use of chemical weapons is illegal and a war crime, it is within the remit of International to act on such crimes, so it was legal. Russia tried to get the UNSC to condem the attack but only got one vote in their favour. Since the UNSC determined the attacks weren't illegal, they were legal.

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

You know something? These infantile games are becoming tiresome.

As an a accused "putinbot" I'll say "Hey, Russia tried to kill the Skripals. Russia determined who sits in the White House. Russia is going to gobble up the Baltics like they did in Crimea. Russia is bleeding at the teeth to send bombers all over Sweden and Ireland. Russia is about to take over the world."

There.

Now, what are you going to do about it?
Do something!

I'd like to see some action from the "West" to counter the red tide.
What are you going to do?

It's already happening - isolation and sanctions. Despite what you and Putin think is the case, the West has absolutely no interest or inclination to attack Russia or be beligerant towards it.

Dohnjoe

Looks like it may have been delivered in liquid form, in a very small quantity. A total of 9 sites reportedly contaminated (will take months to clear) with the Skripal home allegedly showing the highest concentations

Great - use a nerve agent to poison an ex-spy - plus potentially contaminate others in a UN member country. Direct state terrorism if it's proven the Russian state was involved

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43798068

cnocbui

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Looks like it may have been delivered in liquid form, in a very small quantity. A total of 9 sites reportedly contaminated (will take months to clear) with the Skripal home allegedly showing the highest concentations

Great - use a nerve agent to poison an ex-spy - plus potentially contaminate others in a UN member country. Direct state terrorism if it's proven the Russian state was involved

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43798068

The west should collectively stop cutting them any slack or being nice. Putin's daughter went to a US university. Putin's bed warmer gave birth to their daughter in a Swiss clinic on the Italian border and I have no doubt other high-ups probably get similar civilised considerations also.

Stop it all, tell them to F O!.

Dohnjoe

cnocbui wrote: »

The west should collectively stop cutting them any slack or being nice. Putin's daughter went to a US university. Putin's bed warmer gave birth to their daughter in a Swiss clinic on the Italian border and I have no doubt other high-ups probably get similar civilised considerations also.

Stop it all, tell them to F O!.

Or to "shut up and go away" as that one UK intelligence official put it

To be honest I am pretty impressed with the international responses so far, Russia as a propaganda machine seems to have a lot less intl credibility than it enjoyed a few years ago. It may be still be working well domestically on the low information voters, but most of the developed world seems to be getting wise to it

cnocbui

I can think of one place very close by that should be wise to it but seems to think it isn't happening.

Chrongen

cnocbui wrote: »

Use of chemical weapons is illegal and a war crime, it is within the remit of International to act on such crimes, so it was legal. Russia tried to get the UNSC to condem the attack but only got one vote in their favour. Since the UNSC determined the attacks weren't illegal, they were legal.

Slashing your neighbour's tyres is illegal. Beating your wife is ILLEGAL.

Marching in and blowing his head off is ALSO ILLEGAL.

You don't seem to care much about the rule of law. Only the rule of YOU and the rule of the jungle. And yet you bitch when others act in a manner that you deem as barbaric and cavalier.


So what is it going to be? Talk law or ignore it?

Chrongen

I think Assad's wife comes across as quite dignified, unlike Hillary Clinton who laughed when Ghadaffi was murdered by having a bayonet rammed up his anus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZ7_QENtwE

Chrongen

Does anybody know about this BZ toxin?
A lot of people seemed to have been experts on "Novichok"
The same people must know something about this BZ chemical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ4AzYQIIhY

Discodog

Chrongen wrote: »

Does anybody know about this BZ toxin?
A lot of people seemed to have been experts on "Novichok"
The same people must know something about this BZ chemical.

Yes they do & it has nothing to do with Syria or Salisbury.

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

Does anybody know about this BZ toxin?
A lot of people seemed to have been experts on "Novichok"
The same people must know something about this BZ chemical.

I do.

It wasn't used in the attempted murder of the Skripals and that if and when it is used in such a fashion, that Putin will be the one to give the order.

Putin and Kim Jong Un must comprise the most exclusive club on the planet. The only two world leaders who assassinate people with poison. Both seem to think highly of themselves and have fragile egos and generally aren't quite right in the head.

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

Slashing your neighbour's tyres is illegal. Beating your wife is ILLEGAL.

Marching in and blowing his head off is ALSO ILLEGAL.

You don't seem to care much about the rule of law. Only the rule of YOU and the rule of the jungle. And yet you bitch when others act in a manner that you deem as barbaric and cavalier.


So what is it going to be? Talk law or ignore it?

Your post is illogical, disjointed and amounts to a silly little rant. I see no point in responding to such nonsense with anything factual or logical as you clearly don't want that..

Dohnjoe

Not the slightest bit surprised to see RT is now facing 7 new investigations by Ofcom for breaching impartiality rules over just the Skripal story.

Chrongen

cnocbui wrote: »

I do.

It wasn't used in the attempted murder of the Skripals and that if and when it is used in such a fashion, that Putin will be the one to give the order.

Putin and Kim Jong Un must comprise the most exclusive club on the planet. The only two world leaders who assassinate people with poison. Both seem to think highly of themselves and have fragile egos and generally aren't quite right in the head.

How do you know?
What are you basing that statement on?

Chrongen

cnocbui wrote: »

Your post is illogical, disjointed and amounts to a silly little rant. I see no point in responding to such nonsense with anything factual or logical as you clearly don't want that..

You talk about logic and yet seem to be completely bereft thereof.

The use of chemical weapons is illegal. That was the statement.
I countered with the fact that attacking another country is ALSO illegal which is exactly what the US, UK and France did. They illegally bombed Syria.
The US also has more than 2000 troops illegally holed up in Syria.

If a country like the US has zero respect for international law then they are irrelevant. Their word is meaningless.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Not the slightest bit surprised to see RT is now facing 7 new investigations by Ofcom for breaching impartiality rules over just the Skripal story.

Uk government I bet is not involved in this;)

Gatling

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Not the slightest bit surprised to see RT is now facing 7 new investigations by Ofcom for breaching impartiality rules over just the Skripal story.

Hopefully they take real action against Kremlin outlets masquerading as news and environmental information to allow them spew out putins propaganda

cnocbui

Chrongen wrote: »

How do you know?
What are you basing that statement on?

Both the Skripals had body fluid samples taken. Those were tested by Porton Down. Novichok was found, they mentioned nothing else.

On the basis of the Novichok finding, a medical treatment protocol ensued which I believe included large doses of Atropine, to counteract the disruption of the functioning of acetylcholinesterase, which is the mechanism by which all organophosphate based nerve agents work.

That treatment regime clearly appears to have worked, which it wouldn't have unless the poison was a nerve agent.

As well as that, The OPCW sent the Skripal biological samples to 4 accredited laboratories, which tested the samples and presented results to the OPCW which were the basis for their report that confirmed the original diagnosis by Porton Down.

As well as all that there were the forensic environmental samples detected at multiple locations relevant to the Skripals movements and all those were tested in parallel with the other samples and they also matched the tissue samples.

Case closed.

cnocbui

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Uk government I bet is not involved in this;)

You think they should not be involved in governing the country?

Chrongen

cnocbui wrote: »

Both the Skripals had body fluid samples taken. Those were tested by Porton Down. Novichok was found, they mentioned nothing else.

On the basis of the Novichok finding, a medical treatment protocol ensued which I believe included large doses of Atropine, to counteract the disruption of the functioning of acetylcholinesterase, which is the mechanism by which all organophosphate based nerve agents work.

That treatment regime clearly appears to have worked, which it wouldn't have unless the poison was a nerve agent.

As well as that, The OPCW sent the Skripal biological samples to 4 accredited laboratories, which tested the samples and presented results to the OPCW which were the basis for their report that confirmed the original diagnosis by Porton Down.

As well as all that there were the forensic environmental samples detected at multiple locations relevant to the Skripals movements and all those were tested in parallel with the other samples and they also matched the tissue samples.

Case closed.

Case NOT CLOSED, pal.

OK? NOT CLOSED. You don't get to personally determine the rudiments of an episode and slam the door on anyone who has the audacity and temerity to ask a few questions.

How dare you! Who do you think you are? A weapons expert? A forensics person?
No. You're none of those things. NONE.

Nor am I. I am, however, a person with an intelligence level that allows me to question anomalies and contradictions within a narrative that I have been fed.

cnocbui

Game over, doubt has been banished, case is closed.

Quite literally, the historical record has been written for all time and people will read about it in the future as indisputable fact.

You don't seem to understand the significance of an OPCW report - they are like the uncontestable expert witness in a court case. The UNSC can make decisions on significant military action based on OPCW findings. It doesn't get any more serious than that.

People can stomp their feet and have their immature tantrums till they're red in the face in their denial, but it makes not a jot of difference. It's written in stone at this point.

ancapailldorcha

Chrongen will be taking a break from this forum.