Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Appledreams15

Owryan wrote: »

Why are people prepared to accept that Dara said she saw paddy having penetrative sex but not prepared to accept that she said she saw a threesome?

You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

As for bleeding and what could have caused it, there is a reason my then gf made me cut my nails.

What difference does her saying she saw a threesome make?
Stuart, the complainant and Paddy all agreed they had a threesome.
The point in the next bit is that Dara contradicts what paddy said happened.
Paddy said he did not have vaginal sex with the girl.
Dara said she saw him having vaginal sex with her.

meeeeh

I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.

_Whimsical_

professore wrote: »

No mention of aggressive male moaning. You made that up.

Asked by police in her second statement of this had been sexual moaning she said no. It was a male aggressive moan she said.

From the independent on Friday print edition. https://m.imgur.com/a/Ijr0u

The same thing I linked you to that you did not read.
That's twice you have accused me of making something up when in fact you just had not taken the time to find the information, even when it was directly linked to you and circled in red.
If that's the standard of effort you're willing to put into forming an opinion then I think we can discount your contributions here.

Roger Hassenforder

irishrebe wrote: »

What is the relevance of that?

Somene raised the "calming music" as being evidence of something sinister (i.e. a rape) having happened. I just posted the relevant whatsapp conversation.
It seems youve no issue with the "calming music" as evidence of something sinister, but seem to ignore her language...

Owryan

irishrebe wrote: »

Why are people prepared to acknowledge that Dara Florence could have made a mistake when she thought she saw one of the defendants having sex with the woman, but not that she could have made a mistake about whether it was consensual?

You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

You do realise that was a statement aimed at both sides of the argument.

Roger Hassenforder

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Dara said she saw him having vaginal sex with her.

She said she couldnt see his penis.

Silentcorner

tretorn wrote: »

We have had a nine week trial silentcorner so stop making up "evidence"

The victim could have been bleeding if she was menstruating, was it ever established whether she had her period, Jackson testified that he thought the blood on his fingers was period blood.

The forensic expert for the prosecution didnt say there was obvious bruising and he couldnt tell whether the sex that had taken place was non consensual or not, this being the case in spite of the fact that jackson is supposed to have ripped her clothes off raped her twice and then put his fist inside her. Its not actually possible to state for certain that Jackson had penile sex at all because there wasnt a single drop of semen anywhere in the room. Thats very odd.

The men said she wasnt traumatised and Dara F saw a consensual threesome. She was crying in the taxi but that could be becasue she was disappointed with the night, there is no evidence that she couldnt talk and no evidence that she was traumatised.

After this case I am beginning to understand why conviction rates are low. Silentcorner is fabricating nonsense, utter total nonsense about this case and yet she thinks these men werent convicted because there is something wrong with a system of justice.

They werent convicted because the victim told so many different stories and experienced police officers should have known the accounts didnt stack up. They had an independent witness who corroborated the mens accounts and that should have been the end of the matter. It took twenty months and a jury of eight men and three women to see what the police saw and the CPS saw and the Jury in possibly the shortest ever deliberation time in a rape case came back with a not guilty verdict.

End of the matter.

I have clearly angered you and others it seems....it was not my intention...

I have not once, fabricated anything...

irishrebe

Mrsmum wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the body freezes and allows it to happen some more?

Ok. :rolleyes:

I am a bit shocked at this reply. If you were walking through a deserted street one night and a thug bigger and stronger than you accosted you & pinned you up against a wall & you were too scared to do anything, too terrified to move or you decided silence was the wisest thing and he robbed you and gave you a few digs - did you give him consent to do so by your inaction ? I am shocked to think there is still a belief out there that is a rape victim isn't fighting for her or his life, they aren't being raped.

I think you'll find a certain subset of people simply can't identify with a victim from a different demographic. I guess it's easy to mock and roll your eyes and laugh when the chances of you personally being raped are small.

FrancieBrady

Mrsmum wrote: »

I am a bit shocked at this reply. If you were walking through a deserted street one night and a thug bigger and stronger than you accosted you & pinned you up against a wall & you were too scared to do anything, too terrified to move or you decided silence was the wisest thing and he robbed you and gave you a few digs - did you give him consent to do so by your inaction ? I am shocked to think there is still a belief out there that is a rape victim isn't fighting for her or his life, they aren't being raped.

There is a physical threat present there.
There is no evidence that she was physically threatened in the bedroom at any point. She left it to go downstairs and returned.

Mrsmum

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you link to any evidence that shows this happens without a threat to physical safety and only by a penis penetrating someone?

This is even more shocking. So you would be ok then with another man saying now Francie you are in no danger whatsoever and I'll be as gentle as you like but I am going to penetrate you whether you like it or not ???

irishrebe

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

What is the relevance of that?

Somene raised the "calming music" as being evidence of something sinister (i.e. a rape) having happened. I just posted the relevant whatsapp conversation.
It seems youve no issue with the "calming music" as evidence of something sinister, but seem to ignore her language...

I don't see how any of that conversation proves anything at all. But several posters have brought up the 'lol'. Why?

irishrebe

meeeeh wrote: »

I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.

You'd think we'd have learned from that, wouldn't you? But no. Not even a bit.

goz83

Appledreams15 wrote: »

How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

Stone age Ireland.

Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland

If you think that there are no innocent people in prison, you are deluded. The number is small I am sure, but there are still innocent people in prison.

I know of not a single woman from Ireland who has faced charges for abortion in recent history. They either break the law going to the UK, or by ordering pills online. That’s a whole other issue though.

These whatsapp groups are not the jury, so their solidarity and candle lighting in reality means feck all.

If you look at things logically, you would see that men are being treated like criminals. These days, there is so much womens rights plastered all over the place, you literally cannot get by a single day without hearing about it. I am for equal rights.....that includes mens rights too by the way, in case you didn’t know.

The men were found not guilty. They have a right to get on with their lives. Do you think it is right that they are being bullied online after they were judged in a court if law? Or maybe you will just harp on about the woman again....who I shoukd point out has had her rights breached too....and people are up in arms about that of course.

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.

It is possible for someone to 'freeze'.

What some cannot accept here is that in THIS CASE the jury did not find that it was plausible. Why? Because there was NO EVIDENCE of it. :rolleyes:

The Talking Bread

irishrebe wrote: »

You'd think we'd have learned from that, wouldn't you? But no. Not even a bit.

Oh, give over?

Now you are taking the p*ss. Are you seriously saying our society hasn't progressed from that dark era??

This is exactly what I mean by propaganda.

FrancieBrady

Mrsmum wrote: »

This is even more shocking. So you would be ok then with another man saying now Francie you are in no danger whatsoever and I'll be as gentle as you like but I am going to penetrate you whether you like it or not ???

Where is the evidence that anything of this nature happened here.

Exactly, despite the insinuations, there is zero evidence.

Silentcorner

tretorn wrote: »

Oldings semen was found, he said the woman gave him a consensual blowjob and the jury believed him.

There was no evidence whatsoever that Jackson had sex with the woman, he is supposed to have had vaginal sex with her three times, he denies it and the evidence that he told the truth is more compelling.

To state that maybe there was evidence but it no longer exists is nonsense.

Paddy Jackson is supposed to have shoved his whole hand inside her, there would definitely be evidence of this in a forensic examination, there was none. These highly trained staff in sexual assault units know exactly what evidence to note and there was none to note in this case, well apart from a 1 CM tear, she wasnt battered, bleeding, bruised, traumatised and the jury who sat through nine weeks knew this.

I think I will take the word of the jury over silentcorners hysterical posts, thats wimmin for ye.

Well, you clearly haven't been reading my posts....I have stated clearly I am male...

There is a lot of hysterical posts on this thread alright....I will take the word of the Police and CPS if you don't mind....and I will respect the decision of the jury....

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is possible for someone to 'freeze'.

What some cannot accept here is that in THIS CASE the jury did not find that it was plausible. Why? Because there was NO EVIDENCE of it. :rolleyes:

And what would the evidence be? Someone screaming 'I'm going to freeze now'?

Shoe size range indeed.

The Talking Bread

Silentcorner wrote: »

Well, you clearly haven't been reading my posts....I have stated clearly I am male...

There is a lot of hysterical posts on this thread alright....I will take the word of the Police and CPS if you don't mind....and I will respect the decision of the jury....

You are doing anything but, though?

lightspeed

Faugheen wrote: »

The anonymity of the defendants I've already addressed numerous times in this thread. I believe there is a discussion to be had there.

However, the complainant is entitled to it under law, yet it's completely counter-acted by any ordinary person being allowed to enter the court room and here her name being said numerous times. She's entitled to it under law, how can that be when something like this can happen?

In the Republic, members of the public aren't allowed to go to a rape trial, and both the complainant and the defendant have anonymity (unless the complainant waives his/her right to it.

Either way, you've resorted to whataboutery to avoid a genuine question because it doesn't suit your defence of the boys.

Your appear to be highlighting how the fact that the public have access to the courts makes a joke of her right to anonymity throughout the trial. I would not disagree with that but its clear that accused has more rights than the defendents before any trial has even started. Furthermore the fact that there have been such controls over publishing the victims name has provided her with some protection. Im aware it was leaked on social media but looks to have been taken down quite swiftly.

So the reality is the accused are guilty until proven innocent regardless if anybody wants to pretend otherwise.

Silentcorner

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where is the evidence of restraint and threat?

There isn't any. She was in a bedroom with a stranger kissing him, left and then came back.

That is what we know.

Like I said earlier...I can't help you mate...sorry

Silentcorner

meeeeh wrote: »

I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.

It's an epidemic on this thread....

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

And what would the evidence be? Someone screaming 'I'm going to freeze now'?

Shoe size range indeed.

So, like the others, you just want to insinuate that she was frozen in fear to insinuate that she was raped.


A jury considering the actual evidence concluded that she wasn't. But our gallant posters wish to set that aside.

tretorn

Silentcorner wrote: »

I have clearly angered you and others it seems....it was not my intention...

I have not once, fabricated anything...

You havent angered me at all but you are clearly being ridiculous.

Do you honestly thing if any of what you say is true that that jury would have been back with a verdict so quickly. Do you not think there would have been something to discuss if the facts pointed out a bruised, bleeding, traumatised to rendered utterly mute woman.

I hope no innocent man ever comes before you on a jury.

I also note in the timeline of phonecalls and whatsapp messages linked in a recent post, Mc Ilroy referred to the Jacome Whatsapp group as being very loose, ie the men were having lots of sex. Olding used this term and people took from it that he was saying the woman who made the complaint was promiscious, this isnt actually the case and olding tried to clarify this in Court.

McIlroy using this termin the whatsapp messaging with his pals in relation to himself and other men backs up what Olding said.

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

It's an epidemic on this thread....

Anybody who goes up against the rape narrative is now being mocked. Alá the 'MenRTrash' strategy.

God help us all.

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So, like the others, you just want to insinuate that she was frozen in fear to insinuate that she was raped.


A jury considering the actual evidence concluded that she wasn't. But our gallant posters wish to set that aside.

No I'm ridiculing your claim that it's not possible or proven victims in rape could freeze.

Roger Hassenforder

irishrebe wrote: »

I don't see how any of that conversation proves anything at all. But several posters have brought up the 'lol'. Why?

Exactly. A whatssapp conversation proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Sending the song is evidence that they were trying to mitigate the rape (per some).
But also think her replying "lol" is irrelevant, and doesnt prove anything.

I think sending the song is irrelevant to a crime, as is the lol. Neither is evidence.

But to reply to your rapists' friend a few minutes after telling your own friend you were raped, "lol" doesnt sit right. Its not evidence of her lying of being raped, as much as the song is evidence the lads were trying to cover up a rape. Its just another element IMO of the whole fcuked up night, where the truth is somewhere in between all the stories

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

No I'm ridiculing your claim that it's not possible or proven victims in rape could freeze.

I was referring to THIS CASE.

As in 'Where is the evidence that it happened in this case'. There is none, despite the notion being introduced in the prosecution the jury decided it hadn't happened. Why would they have concluded that?

irishrebe

The Talking Bread wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

'Free'? I know rape victims who can barely leave the house, have no social life, and whose lives are basically over. If that's being 'free', then yeah. There are no winners.

of course you do.

TBH I can't take anything you say seriously after that wishy washy story earlier.

I am not saying it doesn't happen, of course it does,  but you seem to have had significantly more exposure to rape, sexual assault, paedophilic verbal abuse, etc etc  than your average Joe which is added to everytime  you want to counter a point.

It is easy to say all this behind a computer and there is an extreme propaganda machine out there at the moment ever more generalising men as sexual deviants, whether in subtle form or downright straight to the point (see some of the banners at that march, a massive portion of tweets and, indeed, comments on here such as "all my foreign friends see Irish men as misogynist drunkards".

A large segment of feminists have in my opinion taken advantage of the verdict (indeed twisting what the verdict even means) to pursue this agenda and it is an extremely dangerous, divisive route to go down. Social media is powerful and we will have new generations coming in seeing these anti-men trends and it isn't going to be pretty for society. Look at that dose, Louise O'Neill using it to promote her book ffs.

You have refused to account for the fact that your messages have had a similar significant generalisation tone to them, or maybe you have wrapped yourself unintentionally in this manner of thinking,  and I expect an ultra defensive retort to this. (like everyone of your posts here - you seem incapable of debate w/o going on the defence which isn't helping people who are attempting to take your posts seriously)

What wishy washy story? You think being harassed in the street means I have had more exposure to those things than the average Joe? I'd say your head would spin if you had even the slightest idea of how many women have been sexually harassed and assaulted in their lives. I suppose you think the Me Too hashtag was just a way to attack men? Get attention? Rather than actually believing it could be true? This attitude is part of the problem. No matter how many times and in how many ways we try to explain our experiences, we're shut down and silenced by people accusing us of lying. The fact so many people refused to believe that grown men would sexually harass a minor was mind-blowing to me. People acting as if it was just so far fetched it couldn't possibly be true. Part of the problem. 

You'd think, wouldn't you, that with the church scandal, the Rotherham scandal, the USAG scandal and the hundreds of similar cases around the world, all much more serious and horrific and harrowing that what happened to me, that you'd finally think, "Jesus, maybe we do have a problem with abuse and harassment victims not being believed". You'd think that people would finally stop implying that stories of abuse and harassment are too far fetched and ridiculous to be true.
Instead, you call a detailed recollection of a traumatic time in someone's life (which I was cross examined on in great detail) a 'wishy washy story', while a man posts a total 'whataboutery' account of how he had sex with a woman once and was worried she MIGHT accuse him of rape (she didn't) and concluded that men are very vulnerable in today's society.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, honestly.

Cushie Butterfield

This thread must be the equivalent to a wet dream for any budding young psychologists, lawyers & criminal masterminds.

I can’t help but wonder, if this thread were to be available to read fifty years from now, what those who weren’t even born by 2018 would think of our meanderings.

Silentcorner

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is possible for someone to 'freeze'.

What some cannot accept here is that in THIS CASE the jury did not find that it was plausible. Why? Because there was NO EVIDENCE of it. :rolleyes:

I think, every jury that is about to serve on a rape trial, should be given an induction delivered by an independent rape/sexual assault expert as to how victims react in rape cases...independent of any side (defence or prosecution)...that person should have no knowledge of the case or the evidence or the people involved....

Clearly, the average man on the street struggles with understanding it...

FrancieBrady

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think, every jury that is about to serve on a rape trial, should be given an induction delivered by an independent rape/sexual assault expert as to how victims react in rape cases...independent of any side (defence or prosecution)...that person should have no knowledge of the case or the evidence or the people involved....

Clearly, the average man on the street struggles with understanding it...

So more undermining of intelligence. This time the jury's.

Excellent.

Sofiztikated

irishrebe wrote: »

I think you'll find a certain subset of people simply can't identify with a victim from a different demographic. I guess it's easy to mock and roll your eyes and laugh when the chances of you personally being raped are small.

To be honest, when faced with any kind of violent action against them, noone really knows what they are going to do.

Men tend to get into risky situations more than women, and so are more familiar with their own response.

But freezing absolutely happens. It's nature. You hear people say it all the time, "Then he stuck a gun in my back, and I froze."

To discount freezing is daft.

meeeeh

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was referring to THIS CASE.

As in 'Where is the evidence that it happened in this case'. There is none, despite the notion being introduced in the prosecution the jury decided it hadn't happened. Why would they have concluded that?

And tell me what would the evidence be? Do you think there is evidence of every reaction we made. If dog scares me in the woods and nobody sees it or hears me, does that mean it didn't happen? Explanation she froze is completely possible It's just that rape wasn't proven. The whole thing is not exactly hard to understand.

irishrebe

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I don't see how any of that conversation proves anything at all. But several posters have brought up the 'lol'. Why?

Exactly. A whatssapp conversation proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Sending the song is evidence that they were trying to mitigate the rape (per some).
But also think her replying "lol" is irrelevant, and doesnt prove anything.

I think sending the song is irrelevant to a crime, as is the lol. Neither is evidence.

But to reply to your rapists' friend a few minutes after telling your own friend you were raped, "lol" doesnt sit right. Its not evidence of her lying of being raped, as much as the song is evidence the lads were trying to cover up a rape. Its just another element IMO of the whole fcuked up night, where the truth is somewhere in between all the stories

I don't think any of it is relevant to the case. What doesn't sit right is trying to insist that victims of a crime should behave in a certain way. That writing 'lol' somehow proves anything at all. I was the victim of a physical assault in Dublin years ago. I was shell shocked, angry and in disbelief, moving between trying to joke about it and ranting about my assailants. I'm sure if the guards had examined my phone, they'd have found similar messages with 'lol' in them. Proves absolutely nothing at all. People process shock in different ways. 
And if you're going to say calming music proves nothing, then you can't insinuate that her sending 'lol' meant she wasn't acting traumatised enough for your liking.

Silentcorner

tretorn wrote: »

You havent angered me at all but you are clearly being ridiculous.

Do you honestly thing if any of what you say is true that that jury would have been back with a verdict so quickly. Do you not think there would have been something to discuss if the facts pointed out a bruised, bleeding, traumatised to rendered utterly mute woman.

I hope no innocent man ever comes before you on a jury.

I also note in the timeline of phonecalls and whatsapp messages linked in a recent post, Mc Ilroy referred to the Jacome Whatsapp group as being very loose, ie the men were having lots of sex. Olding used this term and people took from it that he was saying the woman who made the complaint was promiscious, this isnt actually the case and olding tried to clarify this in Court.

McIlroy using this termin the whatsapp messaging with his pals in relation to himself and other men backs up what Olding said.

You have accused me of fabricating nonsense....I haven't once, I have clearly interpreted the evidence in this case differently to you....and others...

You haven't even read my posts....

tretorn

So all victims react the same in all rape cases.

Would you go away and eat the easter eggs your mammy bought you silentcorner.

You are PC crap personified.

irishrebe

The Talking Bread wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

You'd think we'd have learned from that, wouldn't you? But no. Not even a bit.

Oh, give over?

Now you are taking the p*ss. Are you seriously saying our society hasn't progressed from that dark era??  

This is exactly what I mean  by propaganda.

In terms of listening to people who claim they were assaulted? No, no it hasn't.

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

meeeeh wrote: »

No I'm ridiculing your claim that it's not possible or proven victims in rape could freeze.

I was referring to THIS CASE.

As in 'Where is the evidence that it happened in this case'. There is none, despite the notion being introduced in the prosecution the jury decided it hadn't happened. Why would they have concluded that?

You and a lot of others need to get it into your heads that the jury's verdict doesn't mean they decided it didn't happen.

What the jury's verdict means is the prosecution could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Stop telling people the jury believe the case didn't happen when there is zero (literally zero) evidence to support that.

Dyr

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland

"Everyone" is a much larger demograph than the hysterical hunzo's in your whatsapp groups

Silentcorner

tretorn wrote: »

So all victims react the same in all rape cases.

Would you go away and eat the easter eggs your mammy bought you silentcorner.

You are PC crap personified.

You are not reading my posts....I never once said that....

Again, I am really sorry for angering you...it is not my intention...

FrancieBrady

Sofiztikated wrote: »

To be honest, when faced with any kind of violent action against them, noone really knows what they are going to do.

Men tend to get into risky situations more than women, and so are more familiar with their own response.

But freezing absolutely happens. It's nature. You hear people say it all the time, "Then he stuck a gun in my back, and I froze."

To discount freezing is daft.

What is present here ^ that is absent from the evidence presented in the court...a physical threat to the woman.

I can find no research that shows 'TI' occurs from penetrative sex alone which is what was suggested earlier.

Dara's evidence said that there was no signs that she was being restrained against her will or by force and that to her, it looked consensual.

tretorn

Silentcorner wrote: »

You have accused me of fabricating nonsense....I haven't once, I have clearly interpreted the evidence in this case differently to you....and others...

You haven't even read my posts....

You are making stuff up, you refer to bruising, bleeding, trauma.

Two experts in examining rape victims reported no evidence of non consensual sex, they saw a 1cm tear in the womans vagina and nothing else. No evidence of bruising or any other internal injuries.

You know better than the jury and now you know better than trained forensic professionals who work exclusively with alleged rape victims.

Roger Hassenforder

Silentcorner wrote: »

I think, every jury that is about to serve on a rape trial, should be given an induction delivered by an independent rape/sexual assault expert as to how victims react in rape cases...independent of any side (defence or prosecution)...that person should have no knowledge of the case or the evidence or the people involved....

Clearly, the average man on the street struggles with understanding it...

Funny, but men are more likely to convict in rape trials...
What are we having a problem understanding?
Are we over reliant on facts and evidence?

The Talking Bread

Appledreams15 wrote: »

How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

Stone age Ireland.

Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland

Bingo.................. Women of Ireland v Men of Ireland.

At least you aren't subtle about what you see (or want to see) society as now,

homerjay2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dara's evidence said that there was no signs that she was being restrained against her will or by force and that to her, it looked consensual.

didnt her evidence also contradict that of the lads? it appears that one part of her evidence was believed but the 2nd part wasnt.

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sofiztikated wrote: »

To be honest, when faced with any kind of violent action against them, noone really knows what they are going to do.

Men tend to get into risky situations more than women, and so are more familiar with their own response.

But freezing absolutely happens. It's nature. You hear people say it all the time, "Then he stuck a gun in my back, and I froze."

To discount freezing is daft.

What is present here ^ that is absent from the evidence presented in the court...a physical threat to the woman.

I can find no research that shows 'TI' occurs from penetrative sex alone which is what was suggested earlier.

Dara's evidence said that there was no signs that she was being restrained against her will or by force and that to her, it looked consensual.

Dara Florence also said that there were no signs that the complainant was positively consenting, either.

You going to ignore that piece of information?

py2006

irishrebe wrote: »

I'd say your head would spin if you had even the slightest idea of how many women have been sexually harassed and assaulted in their lives. I suppose you think the Me Too hashtag was just a way to attack men? Get attention? Rather than actually believing it could be true? This attitude is part of the problem. No matter how many times and in how many ways we try to explain our experiences, we're shut down and silenced by people accusing us of lying. The fact so many people refused to believe that grown men would sexually harass a minor was mind-blowing to me. People acting as if it was just so far fetched it couldn't possibly be true. Part of the problem. 

You're head would come right off your shoulders if you knew how many men had similar stories.

Try being a man in today's society! Try being a man reporting inappropriate behaviour or comments from women.

Silentcorner

tretorn wrote: »

You are making stuff up, you refer to bruising, bleeding, trauma.

Two experts in examining rape victims reported no evidence of non consensual sex, they saw a 1cm tear in the womans vagina and nothing else. No evidence of bruising or any other internal injuries.

You know better than the jury and now you know better than trained forensic professionals who work exclusively with alleged rape victims.

I am not making stuff up....

Everything I have mentioned was presented in court...my interpretation differs from yours...the Prosecutions interpretation differed from the jurys...it happens...don't get too hot and bothered by it...

FrancieBrady

meeeeh wrote: »

And tell me what would the evidence be? Do you think there is evidence of every reaction we made. If dog scares me in the woods and nobody sees it or hears me, does that mean it didn't happen? Explanation she froze is completely possible It's just that rape wasn't proven. The whole thing is not exactly hard to understand.

Evidence that she was restrained, forced.

The evidence points to the fact that she twice went upstairs voluntarily. The evidence from the one non participating witness is that she did not see anything that suggested force or restraint.

Yes, it is possible she froze, but those tasked with assessing that found no evidence that she was...i.e. they would have found the men guilty if there was.