Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

_Dara_

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh my god, my sister has a status with the hashtags #IBelieveHer and #TogetherForYes. As a passionate repealer, I'm annoyed at her and others for conflating the two issues.

Sis said the female jurors agreed only because a unanimous decision was needed. How would she know that? Very irrational stuff. We used to agree on a lot of things but have diverged quite sharply in recent years.

This conflation of issues to make "sides" is a dangerous path a lot of people are going down.

Samuel T. Cogley

Mr.H wrote: »

Listen I agree that they are tools. I am just saying that while they are tools, they dont deserve to be ridiculed for it.

Of course they do.

Mr.H wrote: »

But I am just saying that I know some girls wont went nuts for Fifty shades and said some choice things about what they would let Jamie Doran do to them.

Dies that make them scum?

Makes them worthy of ridicule though.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Mr.H wrote: »

Listen I agree that they are tools. I am just saying that while they are tools, they dont deserve to be ridiculed for it.!!

I don't think anyone's ridiculing them. But a lot of posters are expressing their distaste for their behaviour and attitude and for the type of person they represent.

Obviously, going around publicly posting that they're still guilty is unfair.

razorblunt

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Just had a look at Twitter there. The amount of women who think this happened in the Irish justice system is mad. The case happened in Northern Ireland ffs.

Sure the thread title alone says "4 Ulster Rugby Players".

Shows that the trial was followed with interest by the OP.

bigpink

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The plaintiff's female friend damaged the Prosecution's case from the early days.

Stuck her head into the bedroom, but didn't see anything illegal.

If a female friend doesn't back you up, it's going to be a tough job to get a conviction.

She was a friend of the rugby guys I’d say

Samuel T. Cogley

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Genuinely struggling to understand how anyone could feel sorry for her IF they thought she was lying.

Honestly? I find it hard to believe anyone would not feel sorry for her. She either genuinely believes she was raped or she's nuts. Either way...

freshpopcorn

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not objecting that. But I also think some people can show complete disrespect to others with their attitude. It's not illegal, they are not breaking the law but I can still feel they are the type of people I would not want spend time with.

I wouldn't either. Did I say you had to or other people had to spend time with men/women with similar views in my post?

bullvine

You wanna be seriously deluded to think that after following that trial that them lads were 100% guilty of what they were accused of.

Samuel T. Cogley

razorblunt wrote: »

Sure the thread title alone says "4 Ulster Rugby Players".

Shows that the trial was followed with interest by the OP.

Or the mod who changed the title from 'The Trial' :pac:

irishproduce

Anyone know her name by the way?
I would have thought she'd be identified by now since the allegations failed.
Anyone know name?

Mr.H

Leonidas Important Blouse wrote: »

It can be legal and still reprehensible. I would certainly find it hard to respect anyone who behaved like these guys did.

Of course you dont need to respect them. I dont either.

But I do respect my friends and I know one or two of them would say some things that might leave you in shock. But I also know that they are just saying it to get cheap laughs and dont actually mean that stuff.








































































Does friends are also women

Vicxas

garbo speaks wrote: »

Has Louise O'Neill exploded yet?

Who is this absolute melt?

C__MC

Dara Florence was central to this case
She seen no distress.

Also why would you go back to the scene after the offense has been committed and get your phone? Her stories were bizzare. Not everything can be blamed to trauma. Her mindset was that she was weary of a photo being taken, not that traumatized or frozen. She also said Blane mc ilroy was the nasiest of the 3? I mean come on she accused Jackson of terrible things and yet Blane exposing himself was worse.

kaymin

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I simply don't believe you're that naïve. If it came out that a High Court Judge who dealt with Civil cases only was an ex porn-star or indeed a Secondary School maths teacher that person would rightly be in serious trouble professionally. It's entirely correct though that you or I should be able to engage in anything we want, although perhaps not together. :pac:

Actually two of the highest profile Irish rugby stars had a gangbang with a (willing) girl. It was widely reported at the time and seemngly hasn't affected their reputation or standing in the public eye in the slightest.

My understanding is the girl ended up going to the UK afterwards.

pjohnson

razorblunt wrote: »

Sure the thread title alone says "4 Ulster Rugby Players".

Shows that the trial was followed with interest by the OP.

That wasn't the OP's title. Originally it was "The Trial"

razorblunt

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

That was indeed the case, that was the evidence presented to the court, that was his police interview.

As for him being the sort of person who brags of having sex with someone that didnt happen to the police investigating the rape of that person, well it beggars believe. He'd surely be in jail for admitting to carrying out 9/11 or the great train robbery by now. That's just beyond the bounds of all believability.

That's a question for her team though, why wasn't that seized upon?

It's interesting he bragged about the conversation, not in the group chat, but separately on another chat not part of the group.
It was Olding and Jackson that responded to the chat about "spit roasting".

Nerdlingr

Augeo wrote: »

Well rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law, that's more or less common knowledge.

But applying your logic, there's no proof the 3 some was consensual either.

You're right,there is no proof it was consensual.
But an independent eye witness said it looked like a threesome and that the woman wasn't in distress, didnt ask for help etc
This obviously cast a doubt on the accusations.
She accused them of rape, which couldnt be proved. There was no hard evidence to prove this happened .
It really is that simple.

david75

There is a huge social clique of hangers on around the rugby lads and a culture where they’re treated like gods and there are an awful lot of girls and women part of that basically always trying to pick one of them up just to be the WAG but the flip side is some of them seem to have an attitude that they can do whatever they like with no consequences. It’s a weird group think but understandable when you consider these lads all hang out together and have their own subculture and group norms. Lads being lads but ramped up to an appalling degree when viewed from outside.

garbo speaks

I wonder will Paddy and his friends go out tonight celebrating, drinking heavily and going to a nightclub after. Sur what's the worst that could..... oh, yea.

suicide_circus

While spit roast is a crass and juvenile way of describing that particular act, I don't think there is any other way to describe it

NomadicGray

suicide_circus wrote: »

While spit roast is a crass and juvenile way of describing that particular act, I don't think there is any other way to describe it

You could call it 'Chunnel Boring'

Samuel T. Cogley

suicide_circus wrote: »

While spit roast is a crass and juvenile way of describing that particular act, I don't think there is any other way to describe it

Simultaneous oral and vaginal penetration just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Bunny12345

I honestly feel like I've lost a few brain cells after reading the hashtag on Twitter

freshpopcorn

Leonidas Important Blouse wrote: »

I think there are general unspoken standards about what's okay or not okay. And I really do believe that most people would be horrified to know that their son or brother was behaving like these guys. Yes, there will be some who will take a 'lads being lads' attitude, but I don't think they're in the majority.

I never said they were in the majority.
Some men and women carry on like,
Most people would be upset if their daugther/son/sister/brother acted like this.

garbo speaks

NomadicGray wrote: »

You could call it 'Chunnel Boring'

Or doing the 'sydney harbour bridge'

blindside88

kaymin wrote: »

Actually two of the highest profile Irish rugby stars had a gangbang with a (willing) girl. It was widely reported at the time and seemngly hasn't affected their reputation or standing in the public eye in the slightest.

My understanding is the girl ended up going to the UK afterwards.

Exactly, I remember it being widely reported and there were no repercussions because the girl never claimed rape. I think what will end their Irish careers are the messages along with the overall accusation hanging over them. They’ll still play professional rugby but most likely in England or France or possibly Southern Hemisphere. Who ever signs them will get them at a cut rate because they know the lads will have limited options. They’ll also lose out massively by not attracting sponsorship, car deals or commentary roles when they retire. Innocent or not it’s cost them millions

garbo speaks

Bunny12345 wrote: »

I honestly feel like I've lost a few brain cells after reading the hashtag on Twitter

whats the hashtag? I want some comedy!

Samuel T. Cogley

garbo speaks wrote: »

Or doing the 'sydney harbour bridge'

'Multitasking'

manonboard

_Dara_ wrote: »

Oh my god, my sister has a status with the hashtags #IBelieveHer and #TogetherForYes. As a passionate repealer, I'm annoyed at her and others for conflating the two issues.

Sis said the female jurors agreed only because a unanimous decision was needed. How would she know that? Very irrational stuff. We used to agree on a lot of things but have diverged quite sharply in recent years.

Hope you don't give up on bridging that. Divides across cultural shifts like this, come and go, and the solution is always in the laborious but usually fruitful task of seeing each others fears/needs that are driving it.

NomadicGray

garbo speaks wrote: »

Or doing the 'sydney harbour bridge'

Theres 'eiffel towering' as well

ChikiChiki

suicide_circus wrote: »

While spit roast is a crass and juvenile way of describing that particular act, I don't think there is any other way to describe it

Also known as a 4-baller. Jokes aside I don't think I'd want to have sex with a girl at the same time as a mate. To me that would be just plain weird.

Zulu

pjohnson wrote: »

Love some of the twitter eejits saying men shouldn't be allowed on juries for rape cases.

The women jurors found the defendants not guilty aswell. Or have they lost their right to be classed as a woman?

Ahh keep up will you - that's the internalized misogyny that comes out in the patriarchy when toxic masculinity is present in a room.

Adamocovic

suicide_circus wrote: »

While spit roast is a crass and juvenile way of describing that particular act, I don't think there is any other way to describe it

Ménage à trois

(technically is meant for 3 people in a relationship, but the use and meaning varies)

pjohnson

irishproduce wrote: »

Anyone know her name by the way?
I would have thought she'd be identified by now since the allegations failed.
Anyone know name?

Known up there apparently. Should be public outright. At least to warn people about her.

irishproduce

pjohnson wrote: »

Known up there apparently. Should be public outright. At least to warn people about her.

I would expect it to be know locally of course but for those of us looking on, we know who was on one side of the trial but we don't know who was on the other.
I would like to know

PokeHerKing

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Honestly? I find it hard to believe anyone would not feel sorry for her. She either genuinely believes she was raped or she's nuts. Either way...

No chance she's just a malicious wagon who wanted fame, fortune or revenge no?

Samuel T. Cogley

pjohnson wrote: »

Known up there apparently. Should be public outright. At least to warn people about her.

Frankly the whole thing should have been done in camera and stayed that way.

Adamocovic

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Also known as a 4-baller. Jokes aside I don't think I'd want to have sex with a girl at the same time as a mate. To me that would be just plain weird.

It's hard enough trying to find someone willing to let me sleep with them, let alone trying to find someone to actually be my friend.

sheroman01

Zulu wrote: »

I feel sorry for the girl, whether or not she was telling porkies or not, it's a sorry sorry affair.

Out of interest, why exactly would you feel sorry for the girl if she was lying?

VinLieger

garbo speaks wrote: »

Or doing the 'sydney harbour bridge'

If the lads high five its an "Eiffel Tower"

Yer Da sells Avon

pjohnson wrote: »

Known up there apparently. Should be public outright. At least to warn people about her.

If someone is found not guilty, that does not mean that their accuser is a liar or that people need to be warned about her.

lalababa

Ulster and IRFU better man the f**k up and invite these men back to training in a few weeks when things on **** for brains Twitter /social media and **** paper tabloids calm down a bit.
If they don't , major respect will be lost.

silverharp

Zulu wrote: »

Ahh keep up will you - that's the internalized misogyny that comes out in the patriarchy when toxic masculinity is present in a room.

every jury should just be made up of Julie Bindel and Anita Sarkeesian "does the convict have anything to say before the verdict is made?

garbo speaks

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I don't think I'd want to have sex with a girl at the same time as a mate. To me that would be just plain weird.

I wouldn't mind, it would be kinda cool to high-five your mate while doing it, but I would need to be 100% guaranteed that penises would not touch in any way.

benneca1

Google Stuart Olding and see what comes up. Not guilty he may be but the online encyclopedia has its own views.  This is libel so could be interesting.

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

Mge rois

(technically is meant for 3 people in a relationship, but the use and meaning varies)

Also it means all 3 with each other, with one at each end the only contact would usually be eye. And maybe a high five.

Samuel T. Cogley

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No chance she's just a malicious wagon who wanted fame, fortune or revenge no?

Possibly, but putting her self through this lot for it? I just don't see it. Perhaps naively

storker

Zulu wrote: »

Ahh keep up will you - that's the internalized misogyny that comes out in the patriarchy when toxic masculinity is present in a room.

Well remembered. Your Gender Studies degree is in the post...

Debtocracy

The emotional arguments I see on twitter are:

Believe every woman who claims rape
The men should have been convicted 1) for what the girl was made to go through in court 2) to encourage rape victims to report 3) to punish their sleazy behaviour

Looking at social media, I feel very worried that a feminist zeigest could have made an example of these men. If so, the ruling would have huge implications. While it may support more legitimate convictions, it would also increase the chances of false convictions where there is no clear evidence of non-consent.

In eyes of the law, the most heinous act that can ever be committed is to falsely imprison an innocent person. The jury could not be sure of guilt and had to return a verdict of not guilty based on the objective evidence.

Legal cases are about civil rights, evidence, facts and balanced judgement. Emotional gender politics should stay out of the courtroom.

meeeeh

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I wouldn't either. Did I say you had to or other people had to spend time with men/women with similar views in my post?

What were you replying to the then. I didn't say they were guilty I said I think they were scum. And to brush off that attitude towards women as just a bit of banter (or similar) is just sad.