Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sidebaro

C__MC wrote:

And if he would raped a girl in his brothers house, the whole thing was a complete farce.

Maybe I'm not understanding you but are you suggesting he wouldn't disrespect his brother by raping someone in his house?

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

So implausible his legal team allowed him take the stand and testify it? :rolleyes:

If his account was true how come no one else confirmed it? Jackson didn't testify he had a threesome with McIlroy, Jackson claimed Olding was the 3rd person in his threesome or spitroast as he called it iirc.

tretorn

The men were trying to protect each other and none of them believed anything non consensual took place. They saw the woman as someone trying to destroy their friends.
Im not sure about McIlroy, why did the woman text her friend so say three men had raped her. I think she told the staff in the Rowan sexual assault unit that three men had raped her too. By the time she got to the Police she was giving a different account entirely, she had “temembered” the oral rape by this stage so this was then part of the account.
No one who followed the evidence in this case would have believed anyone would be convicted of rape.
The CPS have a lot to answer for, the amount of money and time spent on a case that had no hope of conviction while other cases are in a queue waiting to be heard. Not to mention the waste of taxpayers money.

Guy:Incognito

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope they don't get their careers back wouldn't want to cheer on lads who have demonstrated (yes I don't know the minds of the rest of the team) that level of disrespect to another human being.

You do it every time you support what ever teams you support.


But I suppose ignorance is bliss.

They should absolutely be able to resume their careers.

jr86

Augeo wrote: »

but he seems a sad fncker anyway from all accounts.

Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, no previous convictions/never been in trouble with police, represented his province in professional rugby, represented his country in rugby, moved to the States on a scholarship for a few years, plays AIL rugby for the best club in Ulster, is best friends with a famous Rugby player.

Yeah a fierce "sad" lad alright :rolleyes:

Nermal

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope they don't get their careers back wouldn't want to cheer on lads who have demonstrated (yes I don't know the minds of the rest of the team) that level of disrespect to another human being.

Ireland 2018, where bragging about a threesome on a private WhatsApp group results in losing your job. You realise people have escaped life bans after literally trying to gouge out their opponent's eyes? Get a grip.

I sincerely hope he does play again, if only to delight in the salty reaction from the blue-haired rent-a-mob.

tritium

irishrebe wrote: »

Being a 'Nice guy' has absolutely nothing to do with actually being a nice guy. That's the ENTIRE POINT. The kind of guy who rants about how women are stupid headwrecking b1tches who go for bad boys instead of nice guys like him, usually is not a nice guy at all. Your contempt for women is apparent.

Would you agree that by that same token so a women who complains men are assholes, men are to blame for many of the things wrong in their life and society etc. are also usually not nice people and the they have contempt for men? Possibly even blatant misandry?

irishrebe

jr86 wrote: »

Augeo wrote: »

but he seems a sad fncker anyway from all accounts.

Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, no previous convictions/never been in trouble with police, represented his province in professional rugby, represented his country in rugby, moved to the States on a scholarship for a few years, plays AIL rugby for the best club in Ulster, is best friends with a famous Rugby player.

Yeah a fierce "sad" lad alright :rolleyes:

Being from a privileged background and having a talent for sports means you can't be a sorry excuse for a person now?

cloudatlas

Deleted User wrote: »

cloudatlas wrote:

I hope they don't get their careers back wouldn't want to cheer on lads who have demonstrated (yes I don't know the minds of the rest of the team) that level of disrespect to another human being.

You must watch **** all sports or films and not listen to much music if people's personal lives impact on your enjoyment of their work

Have you been to a rugby match there are a lot more women at them than at football matches because they are more welcoming friendly, and yes it does matter what sporting 'heroes' do, why do you think this has got so much coverage have you been under a stone?

jr86

Augeo wrote: »

If his account was true how come no one else confirmed it? Jackson didn't testify he had a threesome with McIlroy, Jackson claimed Olding was the 3rd person in his threesome or spitroast as he called it iirc.

Not at all uncommon when alcohol is involved. This was mentioned by the judge it was up to the jury to analyse how much weight should be placed on the inconsistencies. Even sober people will have different recollection of events. Basically in any testimony ever there are inconsistencies

PJ's barrister also cross examined McIlroy and went through the plausibility of the inconsistencies between his client's account and McIlroy's also.

Seriously, McIlroy had no obligation to take the stand his legal team would have been studying every ounce of the other testimonies and if the inconsistencies were in anyway incriminating there was zero hope he would have taken the stand

cloudatlas

Nermal wrote: »

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope they don't get their careers back wouldn't want to cheer on lads who have demonstrated (yes I don't know the minds of the rest of the team) that level of disrespect to another human being.

Ireland 2018, where bragging about a threesome on a private WhatsApp group results in losing your job. You realise people have escaped life bans after literally trying to gouge out their opponent's eyes? Get a grip.

I sincerely hope he does play again, if only to delight in the salty reaction from the blue-haired rent-a-mob.

It wasn't as innocuous as you have portrayed it, but that's your perspective.

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, no previous convictions/never been in trouble with police, represented his province in professional rugby, represented his country in rugby, moved to the States on a scholarship for a few years, plays AIL rugby for the best club in Ulster, is best friends with a famous Rugby player.

Yeah a fierce "sad" lad alright :rolleyes:

Well if you worship west brits I can see your point :pac:

He's working in a plastic bag factory of late iirc
Karma

Sidebaro

Hoboo wrote:

Cant even have an opinion on the subject let alone have a march.

Who's been denied an opinion on the subject?

irishrebe

tritium wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Being a 'Nice guy' has absolutely nothing to do with actually being a nice guy. That's the ENTIRE POINT. The kind of guy who rants about how women are stupid headwrecking b1tches who go for bad boys instead of nice guys like him, usually is not a nice guy at all. Your contempt for women is apparent.

Would you agree that by that same token so a women who complains men are assholes, men are to blame for many of the things wrong in their life and society etc. are also usually not nice people and the they have contempt for men? Possibly even blatant misandry?

A woman saying something like 'why do men always go for the horrible b1tches and not nice, down to earth women like me?' and 'it's their own fault if men are treated badly by hot women because they should see how mean and nasty they are' would be the female equivalent. Patronising men and criticising their life choices, coming from a place of frustration at not being one of the chosen or popular ones.

jr86

irishrebe wrote: »

Being from a privileged background and having a talent for sports means you can't be a sorry excuse for a person now?

No idea I've never met him

I certainly wouldn't call him a "sad" person in the way an anonymous internet poster was implying though

jr86

ford2600 wrote: »

The judge, insofar as I can remember, instructed jury they could only find him guilty if there was guilty verdicts on the other Accused.

So once all the other counts were not guilty he couldn't have been found guilty

That was for the withholding evidence charge. He was up on 2 counts

DEFTLEFTHAND

irishrebe wrote: »

Being from a privileged background and having a talent for sports means you can't be a sorry excuse for a person now?

No but it's not against the law to be an arsehole. You meet them in all walks of life.

Guy:Incognito

cloudatlas wrote: »

Have you been to a rugby match there are a lot more women at them than at football matches because they are more welcoming friendly, and yes it does matter what sporting 'heroes' do, why do you think this has got so much coverage have you been under a stone?

No one seems to have issues with this guy playing loi football http://archive.is/jgJwa



Where's your outrage for an actual rapist?

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

..............

Seriously, McIlroy had no obligation to take the stand his legal team would have been studying every ounce of the other testimonies and if the inconsistencies were in anyway incriminating there was zero hope he would have taken the stand

Bit in bold, I know, see below.
I reckon he speel was to cloud the waters further, add in more doubt as to the ladies claim. A riskfree punt for his buddy.

Augeo wrote: »

I think the theory the 4 lads cooked up a story was quite likely and McIlroy for whatever reason perhaps got mixed up when under pressure on the stand.

No one else saw or claimed that the lady gave McIlroy oral sex...... from the tests etc he seemed the saddest cnut of the 4, a hanger on. Failed at the game but still likes being in the gang.

He wasn't charged with oral rape so claiming he got a bj doesn't really implicate him at all does it?

tritium

irishrebe wrote: »

A woman saying something like 'why do men always go for the horrible b1tches and not nice, down to earth women like me?' and 'it's their own fault if men are treated badly by hot women because they should see how mean and nasty they are' would be the female equivalent. Patronising men and criticising their life choices, coming from a place of frustration at not being one of the chosen or popular ones.

So are you saying yes or are you saying oh your example is different and women like that are above such a judgement from you?

C__MC

Sidebaro wrote: »

Maybe I'm not understanding you but are you suggesting he wouldn't disrespect his brother by raping someone in his house?

Paddy Jackson has a very good character. There was no way he would commit such a crime like he did in his brother/wife house. Then go to a cafe the next day and draw up a plan. They way she described it, im 100 per cent sure it did not happen. The case was beyond a farce, no dna evidence, no oral swabs, ringing his ulster manager on his arrest, couldn’t find Oldings clothes, leaving out key questions on behalf of the girl. Olding and Jackson told as it was from day 1. There was no rape here. There was 3some which she regretted. That’s all.

irishrebe

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Being from a privileged background and having a talent for sports means you can't be a sorry excuse for a person now?

No but it's not against the law to be an arsehole. You meet them in all walks of life.

Sure, but I don't get the implication he's not sad or pathetic because he comes from privilege and money. You could argue it's even MORE pathetic to have been given such a start in life and still manage to f*ck it up by acting like a gobsh*te (I'm by no means implying he's guilty of the crime he was accused of, but his texts and behaviour say a lot).

mfceiling

Augeo wrote: »

He's working in a plastic bag factory of late iirc
Karma

What the fcuk has that got to do with anything? He has a job....oh major news alert.

irishrebe

tritium wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

A woman saying something like 'why do men always go for the horrible b1tches and not nice, down to earth women like me?' and 'it's their own fault if men are treated badly by hot women because they should see how mean and nasty they are' would be the female equivalent. Patronising men and criticising their life choices, coming from a place of frustration at not being one of the chosen or popular ones.

So are you saying yes or are you saying oh your example is different and women like that are above such a judgement from you?

I'm saying you're trying to equate two totally different scenarios and I'm not taking the bait. 'Nice Guy' is a very specific term describing the behaviour I already outlined.

sightband

Nermal wrote: »

I sincerely hope he does play again, if only to delight in the salty reaction from the blue-haired rent-a-mob.

Dunno how any player in any sport could perform to the same or any decent level after all that’s happened no matter how innocent or clear their conscience is. As mentioned umpteen times before there really are no winners here, disaster for all concerned.

Sidebaro

C__MC wrote:

Paddy Jackson has a very good character. There was no way he would commit such a crime like he did in his brother/wife house.

That is the mark of a very good character in fairness. It would be rude to rape someone in your brothers house. Have some respect and go to your own house if you want to rape somebody. You should have represented Paddy because there are a lot of people who have conflicting opinions to you in relation to him being a good character.

irishrebe

Nermal wrote: »

cloudatlas wrote: »

I hope they don't get their careers back wouldn't want to cheer on lads who have demonstrated (yes I don't know the minds of the rest of the team) that level of disrespect to another human being.

Ireland 2018, where bragging about a threesome on a private WhatsApp group results in losing your job. You realise people have escaped life bans after literally trying to gouge out their opponent's eyes? Get a grip.

I sincerely hope he does play again, if only to delight in the salty reaction from the blue-haired rent-a-mob.

Louis Smith, British gymnast, received a ban from British Gymnastics for some anti-Islamic comments made in jest at a private wedding. This basically ended his career. And he wasn't demeaning and dehumanising someone he had been intimate with.

ELM327

This is a simple case of women's regret. Of the decisions she made.
There was no rape. I'm relieved for the lads. And hope that karma comes to the woman for ruining their careers with her cancerous lies.


#justiceforthelads
#lockherup

Sidebaro

tritium wrote:

Would you agree that by that same token so a women who complains men are assholes, men are to blame for many of the things wrong in their life and society etc. are also usually not nice people and the they have contempt for men? Possibly even blatant misandry?

Would you agree that by that same token so, men who complain women are assholes, women are to blame for many of the things wrong in their life and society etc. are also usually not nice people and they have contempt for women? Possibly even blatant misogyny?

cloudatlas

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

cloudatlas wrote: »

Have you been to a rugby match there are a lot more women at them than at football matches because they are more welcoming friendly, and yes it does matter what sporting 'heroes' do, why do you think this has got so much coverage have you been under a stone?

I'm

No one seems to have issues with this guy playing loi football http://archive.is/jgJwa



Where's your outrage for an actual rapist?

I'm speaking on this case and I made a specific point relating to this thread I'm not engaging in whataboutery and attempts to paint me as a hypocrite because I won't find the time to go on google and dredge up all of the horrific cases out there.

Sidebaro

Sidebaro wrote: »

Would you agree that by that same token so, men who complain women are assholes, women are to blame for many of the things wrong in their life and society etc. are also usually not nice people and they have contempt for women? Possibly even blatant misogyny?

Would you agree that taking someone's post without quoting and directly addressing the points made might leave things open to be reinterpreted?

DEFTLEFTHAND

irishrebe wrote: »

Sure, but I don't get the implication he's not sad or pathetic because he comes from privilege and money. You could argue it's even MORE pathetic to have been given such a start in life and still manage to f*ck it up by acting like a gobsh*te (I'm by no means implying he's guilty of the crime he was accused of, but his texts and behaviour say a lot).

A lot of this crowd let their fame and hero status go to their head.

Even plain looking fellas like Paddy Jackson suddenly have all types of women becoming interested in them.They take advantage of the situation and end up behaving like dogs.


It's not nice , but it's the culture they live in. Most grow out of it as they age and settle down with a partner.

sightband

irishrebe wrote: »

Sure, but I don't get the implication he's not sad or pathetic because he comes from privilege and money. You could argue it's even MORE pathetic to have been given such a start in life and still manage to f*ck it up by acting like a gobsh*te (I'm by no means implying he's guilty of the crime he was accused of, but his texts and behaviour say a lot).

He is sad and pathetic, a lot of that stock are and live in a protected bubble where they are treated like gods and have a very skewed pereception of real life and how to treat people. Private school rugby lads in my experience are a bunch of arseholes. You are still getting and growing numbers of former students of south dublin private schools who are in their mid forties fat slobs on the terraces of donnybrook drunk midday for some meaningless teenage schools game of rugby and it descends to violence, that in my opinion defines pathetic. The whole Ross o Carrol Kelly series of satire isn’t too far from the truth.

Sidebaro

jr86 wrote:

Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, is best friends with a famous Rugby player.

I would question the relevance of these things you list as to say the guy isn't sad. You are automatically not sad if you're friends with a famous rugby player or you're from a good family?

Also, 'where you're treated like a god' for being good at rugby would kind of indicate where the seeds for that WhatsApp conversation were sown.

Outlaw Pete

ameirecan wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to what she posted exactly?

Broadsheet have removed the comments.

The juror made the remarks in the comments section of an article on Broadsheet.ie about the acquittals in the trial.

The first comment appeared at 8.26pm, seven hours after the jury delivered unanimous not guilty verdict on all counts. The juror made a series of comments describing the trial as well as answering questions from other users.

In the posts the juror addressed the reasons the jury came to its decision and defended the amount of time it had taken to reach a verdict.

I’m sitting here in the kitchen waiting for the cops to arrive, two PSNI constables to arrive and I’m going to be handcuffed away and all I’ve done is just, I made a posting about, this is why there was a return of not guilty,” the juror said.

“When we were all discharged, the 11 of us, the only thing the judge said was, ‘Do you know what, go about your everyday life, whatever, business as usual, but don’t reveal discussions within the jury room,’ and none of that was like part of anything I have said.”

professore

Sidebaro wrote: »

I think Nice Guy Syndrome is an ironic name, as in a guy thinks he's nice but he's actually deluded, self involved and nasty. There are lots of guys like that.

It's an unfortunate name for it then.

Nermal

irishrebe wrote: »

Louis Smith, British gymnast, received a ban from British Gymnastics for some anti-Islamic comments made in jest at a private wedding. This basically ended his career. And he wasn't demeaning and dehumanising someone he had been intimate with.

I wouldn't have sided with the po-faced offence brigade in that situation and I won't in this one either.

Sidebaro

Deleted User wrote:

Would you agree that taking someone's post without quoting and directly addressing the points made might leave things open to be reinterpreted?

Yes.

yourdeadwright

This is really bringing out the retards,
I seen on titter a girl I know who is in a play in one of the big stages in Dublin sy the following ,
We sang the national anthem with loud but with heavy hearts tonight in support for the girl our country has let down,

Number one the girl is British and number two the song is about Irish solider fighting British one's like how stupid are people,

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

What the fcuk has that got to do with anything? He has a job....oh major news alert.

what does this speel have to do with anything "Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, no previous convictions/never been in trouble with police, represented his province in professional rugby, represented his country in rugby, moved to the States on a scholarship for a few years, plays AIL rugby for the best club in Ulster" ?

Sidebaro

professore wrote:

It's an unfortunate name for it then.

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone not understanding it until you. Usually people get the sarcasm.

Guy:Incognito

cloudatlas wrote: »

I'm speaking on this case and I made a specific point relating to this thread I'm not engaging in whataboutery and attempts to paint me as a hypocrite because I won't find the time to go on google and dredge up all of the horrific cases out there.

That's convenient.

Plus you didnt have to Google anything. I posted the link for you.

spookwoman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one seems to have issues with this guy playing loi football http://archive.is/jgJwa



Where's your outrage for an actual rapist?

I live in Waterford, don't follow footy and only heard about that the other day.
Disgusting to say the least that a club would hire someone with that record. I know he was 16 and was charged with defiling instead of rape but she was 14 a bloody kid.
I did see somewhere that at a recent match there was a banner with rape supporters club.

tritium

irishrebe wrote: »

I'm saying you're trying to equate two totally different scenarios and I'm not taking the bait. 'Nice Guy' is a very specific term describing the behaviour I already outlined.

Except you extended your comment much wider than that

Sidebaro

ELM327 wrote:

This is a simple case of women's regret. Of the decisions she made. There was no rape. I'm relieved for the lads. And hope that karma comes to the woman for ruining their careers with her cancerous lies.

If you truly believe in karma then your condemnation of her will not serve you well.

jr86

Augeo wrote: »

what does this speel have to do with anything "Has won the Ulster schools cup (where you're treated like a god), from a good family, no previous convictions/never been in trouble with police, represented his province in professional rugby, represented his country in rugby, moved to the States on a scholarship for a few years, plays AIL rugby for the best club in Ulster" ?

In that it hardly makes him some tag-along saddo you seem to be implying he is.

professore

Sidebaro wrote: »

To be honest, I've never heard of anyone not understanding it until you. Usually people get the sarcasm.

Well you are probably a lot younger than me.

When I was a teen a "nice guy" was a term of admiration. A guy who helps people. A guy who would save someone's life. A guy who would be there if you needed a friend. a guy not boasting and bragging about his sexual prowess or about how he's a male feminist. A guy who would stand up for himself and others weaker than him. A guy not overly concerned about his appearance.

A guy that if he was with a girl and a second guy came along he would tell him to **** off.

A proper man.

What you are describing is a sleazebag.

Ha Long Bay

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This is really bringing out the retards,
I seen on titter a girl I know who is in a play in one of the big stages in Dublin sy the following ,
We sang the national anthem with loud but with heavy hearts tonight in support for the girl our country has let down,

Number one the girl is British and number two the song is about Irish solider fighting British one's like how stupid are people,

Is this a new female only version of Twitter?

FrancieBrady

Roe McDermott on TV3 Tonight Show last night wasn't picked up when she suggested that even if a woman, after a night of what the male believed to be consensual, if drunken sex, wakes up in the morning and decides it wasn't consensual, must be listened to and action taken.

Does she realise how mindbogglingly impossible it makes things?

homerjay2005

my thoughts -

horrible case, especially for the girl. the sad reality is that we have 6 main witness, many of whom were completely hammered drunk and could not remember elements of the night - as a result we had pretty much 6 different accounts which case alot of doubt about the entire thing from all aspects.

prosecution case was poorly constructed and weak - it was clear from day 1 that regardless of what they were going to bring up, the chance of a conviction was very very unlikely.

going after 6 separate charges was completely insane and all it did was just add more pressures on the poor girl. they should have maximum went after 2 lesser charges, 1 each for 2 separate individuals and if they did, i believe theres a big chance that both would have been found guilty.

i am surprised that one person in particular was found not guilty, he is a lucky man.

on the face of it, given the lack of evidence, the result is the right one BUT that for me does not prove nothing happened -something terrible did happen, it was consentual to a point and something changed that which turned the event into a very very sad and terrible ordeal for the victim. she is not a liar in my opinion.

this court case brings up just how disgusting these trials are for victims, it appeared for majority of it that she was the one on trial - 4 barristers against her, only 1 defending her, character witness and propaganda galore fed to the jury about the stature of the accused and multiple other reasons suggest to me she did not get a fair trial.


above all else though, while i accept that social media like whatsapp is a breathing ground for certain cultures and i am sure many people do it at some point and in some form, some of the follow up posts "pumped a girl, roasted her", "top shaggers" and all that just doesnt sit well.

i dont normally agree with the entire men v woman debate that alot of people do but on this case, i think its a sad sad outcome for woman. while many people are saying that women should be believed in cases like this, the irony here is that it looks like the entire case and verdict revolved around the opinion given by another woman, unfortunately for the victim they believed it. baffled though as to how they did accept it but ignored her other evidence about what was actually happening - something that the accused denied.

all in all, a very sad sad case with no winners and a sign that certain things need to change, especially how victims are treated in these cases.