Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

wexie

Hoboo wrote: »

Heres a link to the Tweet. Im sure its ok to post a link?

<snip>

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

ChikiChiki

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Lunacy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AO9C87mmYk

Whackjobs. Peter Stringer spotted at 1.28 ;-)

super_furry

wexie wrote: »

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

Think it's just intimidation tactics from Jackson's legal team. Scare a Senator into staying silent and they'll be able to do the same with less high-profile people.

Mokuba

wexie wrote: »

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

Going to make an example out of him hopefully.

Although it'd be nice if they started to work through the cretins on twitter 1 by 1.

freshpopcorn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I have never been upset after sex the morning after. I certainly wouldnt put myself through 9 weeks of a trial after sex that I wanted.
Why do you tbink she was injured with the laceration?

So what are you saying that every person who man that ends up in court accused of rape is guilty because you wouldn't put yourself through a court case if they weren't.
Just because you weren't upset after sex it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It can happen for various reason other than rape.
I can't really answer you about the laceration but women getting lacerated in consensual sex isn't unheard of. It's not nice but it can happen.

Stheno

Appledreams15 wrote: »

So if she goes to a party with lads which everyone does as a teenager, she deserves to get raped?
Archaic arabic country alert alert!
My male friend just said to me, if he had a daughter he wouldnt let her out he would be so afraid. I have also said that i will not bring a daughter up in this country. I cry looking at all these comments, it so so hard to change male views in this country. They seem to enjoy being cold callous and hard.

Are you in Northern Ireland?

Hoboo

wexie wrote: »

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

No idea of law surrounding defamation. Its a bit rich coming from a smug well connected middle class boy though.

ChikiChiki

wexie wrote: »

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

I wonder was O'Riordans tweet responsible for the #ibelieveher hashtag that spread?

alroley

Dodgy Steve wrote: »

Same story happens every saturday night in every town in this country.

Perhaps, girls shouldn't get wasted drunk and go home with random lads? Maybe have a bit of common sense?

Perhaps lads should respect women and not leave a girl bleeding, cut, and crying in hysterics.

Appledreams15

Hoboo wrote: »

Heres a link to the Tweet. Im sure its ok to post a link?

<snip>

Thanks so much. How on earth is that tweet libellous?

Aren't people entitled to state their opinion on social media AFTER a case is over? Paddy Jackson is taking it too far

For Forks Sake

Mokuba wrote: »

Going to make an example out of him hopefully.

Although it'd be nice if they started to work through the cretins on twitter 1 by 1.

You'd need several lifetimes for that task

SleetAndSnow

Appledreams15 wrote: »

So if she goes to a party with lads which everyone does as a teenager, she deserves to get raped?
Archaic arabic country alert alert!
My male friend just said to me, if he had a daughter he wouldnt let her out he would be so afraid. I have also said that i will not bring a daughter up in this country. I cry looking at all these comments, it so so hard to change male views in this country. They seem to enjoy being cold callous and hard.

Why are you generalising all men as 'cold callous and hard', if thats what you think then you talk to the wrong people. Your just as bad, since apparently all men generalise women, yet here you are doing the exact same with the opposite sex. Good job on trying to push your anti-male agenda.

No country is safe for males and females alike, so there is no perfect paradise for anybody to raise their children.

super_furry

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I wonder was O'Riordans tweet responsible for the #ibelieveher hashtag that spread?

Not at all, that's been going around for months. There were people with in on a banner during Ireland Six Nations games.

Mokuba

Hoboo wrote: »

No idea of law surrounding defamation. Its a bit rich coming from a smug well connected middle class boy though.

Who are you referring to here? Paddy Jackson?

He is more than entitled as an innocent man, to get his life back on track.

RuMan

Jacko suing Amadan O'Riordan for defamation. Great stuff, the mans life destoyed because of false allegations that he was cleared off. Hopefully this sends a message to the silly protesters. Training in schools to stop women making false rape allegations

Stonedpilot

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Whackjobs. Peter Stringer spotted at 1.28 ;-)

Talk about your brainwashed rent a mobs

also the chant is terrible "we stand with her".

ON WHAT EXACTLY?.

dark crystal

RuMan wrote: »

Jacko suing Amadan O'Riordan for defamation. Great stuff, the mans life destoyed because of false allegations that he was cleared off. Hopefully this sends a message to the silly protesters. Training in schools to stop women making false rape allegations

Again, you're assuming it was a false allegation. The allegation wasn't proven, that does not equate to it being false.

pjohnson

Stheno wrote: »

Are you in Northern Ireland?

India I believe

super_furry

Jackson would be well advised to keep his head down and stay quiet. Threatening politicians with spurious court cases would do little other than to keep the words Paddy Jackson, court and rape in the headlines.

Hoboo

Mokuba wrote: »

Who are you referring to here? Paddy Jackson?

He is more than entitled as an innocent man, to get his life back on track.

WTF you talking about? Of course Im talking about Aodhan ORiordáin, thats painfully obvious to a blind man.

If you bothered to read the Tweet you'd get that.

Mokuba

Ms Hans added: "We will not hesitate to repeat similar legal action against anyone, who deliberately or otherwise, sees fit to attack our client.

"We are examining carefully every item of social media commentary which seeks to challenge the integrity of the jury's full endorsement of our client's innocence."

I hope they ruin these entitled twitter morons.

alroley

RuMan wrote: »

Jacko suing Amadan O'Riordan for defamation. Great stuff, the mans life destoyed because of false allegations that he was cleared off. Hopefully this sends a message to the silly protesters. Training in schools to stop women making false rape allegations

Yeah because there's way more false rape allegations from women than actual rape from men :rolleyes:

Rape needs to be proven without doubt, which unfortunately is difficult to do due to the lack of witnesses and other evidence (CCTV...), which means most rapists get away with it, but that certainly does not mean that there was false allegations.

ArthurDayne

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I have never been upset after sex the morning after. I certainly wouldnt put myself through 9 weeks of a trial after sex that I wanted.
Why do you tbink she was injured with the laceration?

In the context of having gotten very drunk, engaged in an act of group sex and having believed that someone might have taken pictures -- coupled with the fear of knowing that pictures of and rumours about an Irish international rugby player in a threesome might spread quite quickly in our often sadly voyeuristic society -- I think one might be inclined to be more upset the next morning than they might be at some of the more normal regrettable sexual encounters one experiences in life.

The laceration hasn't exactly been brushed over in all of this. It was dealt with in court and was the subject of testimony from a medical expert who confirmed that a vaginal laceration is not conclusive in determining whether penetration is consensual or not. Bleeding and small cuts can happen in consensual penetration, whether it be done with the fingers, penis or objects. Sure, it can be indicative that the sexual act was roughly or carelessly done, but it does not prove an absence of consent.

Reati

super_furry wrote: »

Jackson would be well advised to keep his head down and stay quiet. Threatening politicians with spurious court cases would do little other than to keep the words Paddy Jackson, court and rape in the headlines.

Exactly my earlier points. He wants to get his life back on track, stop getting your life to the top stories on Google News...

Mokuba wrote: »

Ms Hans added: "We will not hesitate to repeat similar legal action against anyone, who deliberately or otherwise, sees fit to attack our client.

"We are examining carefully every item of social media commentary which seeks to challenge the integrity of the jury's full endorsement of our client's innocence."

I hope they ruin these entitled twitter morons.

Yeah, that'll do them no end of favors. I assume the chap wants to go back to sport and not spend the next few years in court for spurious cases to win apologies...

RuMan

super_furry wrote: »

Jackson would be well advised to keep his head down and stay quiet. Threatening politicians with spurious court cases would do little other than to keep the words Paddy Jackson, court and rape in the headlines.

Hope he takes Amadan to the cleaners. He had consensual sex and committed no crime. Disgusting the way people like Amadan think they can ignore the courts ruling

wexie

dark crystal wrote: »

Again, you're assuming it was a false allegation. The allegation wasn't proven, that does not equate to it being false.

I don't get that people can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact it's entirely possible, likely even, that the claimant believed she was raped and the accused believed they didn't rape her?

The court has just decided on what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That has no bearing on whether or not anybody was or wasn't lying

torqtorq

kingtiger wrote: »

he deleted it

lucky I snipped it

<snip>

Good on kingtiger for saving this.

BattleCorp

dark crystal wrote: »

Again, you're assuming it was a false allegation. The allegation wasn't proven, that does not equate to it being false.

It doesn't mean that they did it and got away with it either like many on here seem to be suggesting.

If I was accused of rape and found not guilty, I'd be very p1ssed off if people were going online and saying that I did it even when I was found not guilty.

Canterelle

Hoboo wrote: »

Thought this was crucial in the early stages. Talking in the third person like she had read up on victims accounts.

"You freeze when you're being raped". Not, "I froze". "You dont know what to do in that situation". Not, "I didn't know what to do".

And then two minutes after it was put to her, she was asked another question, and she did it again.

Yes one of the defence barristers tried this on, which imo was totally unfair. Plenty of people use this way of recounting events past, especially painful ones. That is why she should have had separate legal representation so that this kind of stuff wouldn’t be just allowed. The barrister wrongly in my opinion planted the idea in juries minds that this meant she was repeating a rehearsed speech.

ChikiChiki

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Talk about your brainwashed rent a mobs

also the chant is terrible "we stand with her".

ON WHAT EXACTLY?.

I'd say the only thing wrong with half that crowd is they could do with a good night out in Coppers and let loose a little. Keeping up the pretence of man hating for little reason must be hard work when in reality 99.9999% of men are harmless.

Noveight

Jaysus lads but Twitter is going full tilt.

Starting a Tweet with “Dear ALL men” is a sure-fire way to make yourself look a right tit.

RuMan

alroley wrote: »

Yeah because there's way more false rape allegations from women than actual rape from men :rolleyes:

Rape needs to be proven without doubt, which unfortunately is difficult to do due to the lack of witnesses and other evidence (CCTV...), which means most rapists get away with it, but that certainly does not mean that there was false allegations.

No rape in this case. Do you dispute that?

markodaly

dark crystal wrote: »

Again, you're assuming it was a false allegation. The allegation wasn't proven, that does not equate to it being false.

Eh, it kinda does in a court of law. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If Guilt cannot be proven, the default position of innocence remains, therefore they remain innocent.

Harry Palmr

wexie wrote: »

Certainly seems less vicious than many others, ill judged from a public representative but by no means the worst I'd have thought?

The clear implication is that the accused are guilty. Did he mean to suggest that? Who knows but the tweet is a fine example of not thinking carefully about the contents of a tweet. The reference to "smug well connected middle class boys win out again" is certainly prejudicial after the fact.

pjohnson

markodaly wrote: »

Eh, it kinda does in a court of law. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If Guilt cannot be proven, the default position of innocence remains, therefore they remain innocent.

This is what protestors want changed.

dark crystal

wexie wrote: »

I don't get that people can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact it's entirely possible, likely even, that the claimant believed she was raped and the accused believed they didn't rape her?

The court has just decided on what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That has no bearing on whether or not anybody was or wasn't lying

The same people will decry the Twitter mobs for the #ibelieveher stance (not saying I agree with it), yet say nothing about the other Twitter mobs calling her a liar and a slag without any evidence she was lying.

GreeBo

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Men don't have any interest in women who won't put out for them. That goes without saying.

I find men boring because they generally approach women solely on that basis and with the kind of infantile talk witnessed in those text messages.

If a woman wants a "partner" she has to put up with this cr@p at the early stages.

LOL.

I pity any man or woman who has to put up with interacting with you and your ridiculous nonsense.

We can only pray for Mr Shuttleworth.

jmayo

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I was in college in TCD with a load of these types and the atmosphere in the class was toxic.

There's tremendous pressure on women to be sexually active, at all ages but particularly in the late teens/early twenties to keep up with the gang and the belief that if don't you won't find a partner later on. I'm convinced that that period contributed in no small way to me becoming asexual in adulthood and I don't find men sexually attractive at all now.

This case and what has come out reinforces that belief. The only fault of the girl here is being stupid enough to sleep with such muck in the first place.

Ah come on there are girls/women who quite willingly go after rugby players, especially in certain parts of the country and this was even well before they were professional sportsmen.
Likewise in some counties some girls see being the girlfriend of a county GAA player as being something very desirable.
From my experience it aint the guys forcing girls, they have enough willing applicants so to speak.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Nobody starts out on the road to being a professional sports person with the hopes of being a role model to kids. At the stage they start they are kids themselves.

They shouldn't be forced to take on a role model position against their will just because of their job. Just like it shouldn't be assumed a woman in a traditionally man role wants to be thrust in to the spotlight as the poster girl for feminists everywhere and be made to do it.

Actually they should be forced to realise that they are role models once they reach a certain level.
They are in the limelight due to their jobs, and in the case of professionals they ultimately get paid because they publicly perform.
Especially in team sports where a big chunk of the fans are young kids, young lads in particular.

Without fans a lot of professional team sports wouldn't have very much money to spend on the players.

Phoebas wrote: »

What's AodhRd getting sued for?
Calling them smug?

I'd say they have an uphill battle.

Imagine trying to find a jury to decide between the two.

And yes I know it would be a civil case and not criminal jury trial.

wexie

pjohnson wrote: »

This is what protestors want changed.

that's a god awful slippery slope to start on.....

Amirani

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Thanks so much. How on earth is that tweet libellous?

Aren't people entitled to state their opinion on social media AFTER a case is over? Paddy Jackson is taking it too far

No, there's no entitlement for people to "state their opinion on social media".

How are some people so blinkered as to not realise that?

Nailz

super_furry wrote: »

Jackson would be well advised to keep his head down and stay quiet. Threatening politicians with spurious court cases would do little other than to keep the words Paddy Jackson, court and rape in the headlines.

It appears that he'll be out of work for a while anyway, which likely wouldn't have been the case if it wasn't for the post-verdict backlash. I think he can afford to put the time to it, he'll probably want to try and swipe back at couple of the more prominent and public defamers while he's at it.

Might bag himself some monetary compensation as well.

pumpkin4life

kingtiger wrote: »

he deleted it

lucky I snipped it
<snip>

GreeBo

Sidebaro wrote: »

You added the white male bit in fairness.

In fairness, the comment was about white males.

pjohnson

wexie wrote: »

that's a god awful slippery slope to start on.....

Its highly unlikely to ever be allowed happen but thats what they want.

Mokuba

Reati wrote: »

Yeah, that'll do them no end of favors. I assume the chap wants to go back to sport and not spend the next few years in court for spurious cases to win apologies...

The baying mob will not allow him to return. They will pressure sponsors, pressure the IRFU. He needs to silence them if he wants to play for Ulster again in his life. Otherwise he will be forced to play abroad for the rest of his career.

C__MC

Was there much uproar when Larry Murphy walked out of a jail as a convicted rapist? I can’t seem to remember, many protests? Just a genuine question

SleetAndSnow

https://twitter.com/_Argento/status/979693631417344001

this is exactly why they won't be allowed to move on with their lives.

dark crystal

markodaly wrote: »

Eh, it kinda does in a court of law. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If Guilt cannot be proven, the default position of innocence remains, therefore they remain innocent.

I am not debating the verdict at all, I am simply saying a not guilty verdict does not automatically equate to the plaintiff having lied. It just means the accusation was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

If all cases that ended in a 'not guilty' verdict equated to the plaintiff having lied, the justice system would be littered with plaintiffs being sued for perjury.

Reati

Nailz wrote: »

It appears that he'll be out of work for a while anyway, which likely wouldn't have been the case if it wasn't for the post-verdict backlash. I think he can afford to put the time to it, he'll probably want to try and swipe back at couple of the more prominent and public defamers while he's at it.

Might bag himself some monetary compensation as well.

It'll just extend the time he is out of work if he is tied up in more unnecessary legal drama.

super_furry

Nailz wrote: »

Might bag himself some monetary compensation as well.

Not if he's willing to go to court over something as weak as O'Riordan's tweet. I can't see him ending up with anything other than a big legal bill if that went all the way.