Preview: Leinster v Saracens, Sunday April 1, 15:30, BT Sports 2

.ak

Afaik you can’t fend leading with the forearm anymore.

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

So Sexton should have gone down and play acted for a while, to make sure he gets proper protection from refs.

I'm pretty sure that's what he did do. He paused after Wiggelsworth bumped off him then went down to draw the ref's attention as it was late and high and the 4th afters he'd gotten.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

And should have been a yellow.

The degree of the sanction might be up for debate, but you can't agree that he didn't get protection from the ref, if the incident was looked at and penalised.

Thud

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that's what he did do. He paused after Wiggelsworth bumped off him then went down to draw the ref's attention as it was late and high and the 4th afters he'd gotten.

sad that he has to do this, it's slippery slope towards ending up like football

stephen_n

In effect the only difference with Healy’s one against Exeter and Wigglesworth is about 30kgs and the force that generates. Which should not be a factor in interpreting the law.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

The degree of the sanction might be up for debate, but you can't agree that he didn't get protection from the ref, if the incident was looked at and penalised.

Considering that was the fourth one on an ascending scale, I think it’s very safe to say he didn’t get protection from the officials.

Bridge93

Was Francis(?) not hit by Healy when he wasn't looking? I can't remember. Sexton would've known Wigglesworth was in the vicinity

molloyjh

Fantastic performance from the lads. Sarries weren't at their best but they still played well. That we were so dominant despite the fact that we had a few big names missing and a good chunk of guys playing their first game in blue for over 2 months bodes well.

I said it about the Scarlets - La Rochelle game and about the Munster - Toulon game, structure was the biggest difference over the weekend. La Rochelle didn't seem to have much of an attacking game plan to build on where-as Scarlets knew exactly what they were about and what they wanted to do. Defensively Munster were rock solid, the integrity of their defensive line through out was excellent and set the foundations for their win. But those were against French sides, who we know tend to lack the same kind of structure we're used to. I was nervous about Sunday because I didn't see Saracens falling into the same trap. But, like Munster, we showed that very strong defensive structure and performance was the building blocks to a good win.

Leinster were very strong around the fringes and the drift defence was top notch. Guys stayed square enough that if the attacker looked to step in and target a weak shoulder the defender was still able to affect a tackle. It wasn't always a completed tackle, but it was enough to allow support to get there. When Sarries went wide the drift ensured we were numbered up really well. We missed quite a few tackles over the 80 (32 according to UR), but it reminded me of earlier in the season when people were bemoaning our missed tackle count despite the fact that we were one of the best sides defensively in the league based on points conceded. Missed tackle stats don't tell the full story. Not by a long way.

The ambition in the opening quarter particularly was excellent. But the phase down the left that led to the Lowe try was possibly my favourite move of the game. Really good pace and interplay from backs and forwards down a 10m channel that made around 20-30m. The accuracy and support running from all involved was great to watch.

I haven't read the thread properly, but have seen a few comments on Garces. Thought he was fine overall, but he had a 10-15 min patch in the second quarter where he was really poor. Said that Lowe taking Kruis (?) in the air was balanced out by the blocking line that Burger took. But Lowe wouldn't have taken Kruis but for the blocking line. And surely then you go back for the first infringement? Ferg got pinged for hands in the ruck when the ball just bounced off him accidentally as he rolled away. I get why that might have been called, but it wouldn't have been in a lot of cases. The ball was essentially pushed into him. Wigglesworth should have been carded for a shoulder charge on Sexton. Itoje brought down the ensuing maul and they were awarded the scrum. There were a series of poor decisions from him in that period before half time, some of which on their own (like the Ferg penalty) wouldn't be an issue. However when there is a collection of them all together like that it is bound to frustrate. Especially when 1 side is consistently the beneficiary.

That said, Sexton shouldn't have responded the way he did. He's a senior player and should be rising above that stuff at this stage in his career. Murphy playing the ball on the deck in front of Garces and Toners yellow card were other moments in the game where I felt we were just shooting ourselves in the foot. 9 of their points came from silly penalties that we should not be giving away. Things like Sextons offside etc will happen, but almost half of their points were entirely self inflicted and avoidable.

Last word though to both teams accuracy levels. At 36 mins there were 2 unforced errors in the game. 1 each. By the end that total was 9 IIRC. And a good few of those errors came from Sarries as they were chasing the game in the last quarter. It was a high quality game throughout generally speaking.

molloyjh

prawnsambo wrote: »

Murray Kinsella has done his usual forensic analysis of Leinster's tries. The bits I enjoy are the little details. Like James Lowe losing his boot to Liam Williams and still tearing on up the touchline, long after the ball has changed hands. Isa Nacewa having given the pass to Riingrose gives Goode an almighty shove out of the way. In the build up to James Lowe's try, he's on James Ryan's heels and pulls Liam Williams down into the ensuing ruck, leaving the short side virtually uncovered. Williams had shown a passing interest in attending the breakdown, Lowe made sure he was committed.

Murphy for me made the Leavy try. Took a player out beyond the ruck and made a mess then of their defensive set up immediately around the ruck. Then Isa for Lowes try, connecting with and driving Itoje beyond Lowe. I know he had help, but the commitment shown was impressive.

prawnsambo

molloyjh wrote: »

Murphy for me made the Leavy try. Took a player out beyond the ruck and made a mess then of their defensive set up immediately around the ruck. Then Isa for Lowes try, connecting with and driving Itoje beyond Lowe. I know he had help, but the commitment shown was impressive.

Yeah. It was just the right side of tackling the player without the ball. You could see how it disrupted their defensive line and caused a little confusion.

Scarlets will be a different challenge though. They're well used to breakdown battles and with Tadhg Beirne always sniffing for a turnover, we will need to be very accurate in everything we do.

errlloyd

Little moment not many saw but I enjoyed. After converting Leavy try Sexton was running back to halfway with Farrell beside him. Once again a new ball had been rolled on to halfway and Sexton did a primary school style dummy free kick, running over it. Cracks up to himself at his own witty slapstick.

I knew we were gonna win then, because I knew Sexton had calmed down.

prawnsambo

errlloyd wrote: »

Little moment not many saw but I enjoyed. After converting Leavy try Sexton was running back to halfway with Farrell beside him. Once again a new ball had been rolled on to halfway and Sexton did a primary school style dummy free kick, running over it. Cracks up to himself at his own witty slapstick.

I knew we were gonna win then, because I knew Sexton had calmed down.

Didn't see that, must have a look for it.

Funny enough, and it rarely happens when I'm watching a match like this, but from the moment Ringrose's try was scored, I knew the match was won. It was the ease by which the weakness was picked out and the ruthlessness with which it was exploited that convinced me.

Dubinusa

I thought Leinster were superb. They looked very comfortable throughout and played within themselves. The structure and game plan was excellent. The rush defence forced a lot of side to side Sarries attack, without really going anywhere. The missed tackles were a little concerning. But, that's been the way all season.
Sexton kicked from the tee superbly and appears to be over whatever bothered him a few weeks ago.
The forwards/backs interplay was great and the players all seem capable of carrying and passing with ease.
I thought Nick McCarthy gave a decent account of himself. He can improve with more game time. Ruddock back in the squad is huge, if he regains his previous form he will be monstrous in the coming games. Nordi too was very good.
I hope they bury Zebre this week. Scarlets have Glasgow and hopefully they lose. Great chance to add to our lead.

molloyjh

Dubinusa wrote: »

I thought Leinster were superb. They looked very comfortable throughout and played within themselves. The structure and game plan was excellent. The rush defence forced a lot of side to side Sarries attack, without really going anywhere. The missed tackles were a little concerning. But, that's been the way all season.
Sexton kicked from the tee superbly and appears to be over whatever bothered him a few weeks ago.
The forwards/backs interplay was great and the players all seem capable of carrying and passing with ease.
I thought Nick McCarthy gave a decent account of himself. He can improve with more game time. Ruddock back in the squad is huge, if he regains his previous form he will be monstrous in the coming games. Nordi too was very good.
I hope they bury Zebre this week. Scarlets have Glasgow and hopefully they lose. Great chance to add to our lead.

We should get the 5 this week, but I'd also expect Scarlets to win. What we need is for them not to get the TBP win. If we can open up a 4 point gap (realistically 5 points given our number of wins, PD and tries scored) with 2 games left we should be able to wrap up top spot in the conference.

It'll be interesting to see how Scarlets approach the next 2 games as well. Do they go all out looking to top the conference or do they look to rest guys for the SF on the 21st? Glasgow at home and Edinburgh away are tricky games. And if Edinburgh beat Ulster they'll be breathing down Scarlets throats. Edinburgh are at home for their last 3 and should they win them all they would pip Scarlets to second place, meaning Scarlets would be away to Munster (most likely) in the QF. If Scarlets don't focus on the league in the next few weeks it could very well cost them. If they do, it could cost them in Europe. Not an easy place to be at the moment.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

We should get the 5 this week, but I'd also expect Scarlets to win. What we need is for them not to get the TBP win. If we can open up a 4 point gap (realistically 5 points given our number of wins, PD and tries scored) with 2 games left we should be able to wrap up top spot in the conference.

It'll be interesting to see how Scarlets approach the next 2 games as well. Do they go all out looking to top the conference or do they look to rest guys for the SF on the 21st? Glasgow at home and Edinburgh away are tricky games. And if Edinburgh beat Ulster they'll be breathing down Scarlets throats. Edinburgh are at home for their last 3 and should they win them all they would pip Scarlets to second place, meaning Scarlets would be away to Munster (most likely) in the QF. If Scarlets don't focus on the league in the next few weeks it could very well cost them. If they do, it could cost them in Europe. Not an easy place to be at the moment.

Having won the league last year, I can't see Scarlets doing anything other than absolutely prioritising the buildup to the semi-final imo.

Sangre

A lot of people talking about Leinster loss to Scarlets in SF last year and how that might impact our European SF. Can someone please refresh my memory as to how that game panned out?

From memory, Scarlets were good but also Leinster was very poor. I recall it was Sexton's worst performance in blue in a long time. Or am I mixing up games?

At any rate, this team is a lot stronger than last year. Some great foreign imports and the younger guys have really kicked on.

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

Having won the league last year, I can't see Scarlets doing anything other than absolutely prioritising the buildup to the semi-final imo.

Yeah, but do that and their season could be over by the first weekend of May. That would be a serious disappointment for them.

Sangre wrote: »

A lot of people talking about Leinster loss to Scarlets in SF last year and how that might impact our European SF. Can someone please refresh my memory as to how that game panned out?

From memory, Scarlets were good but also Leinster was very poor. I recall it was Sexton's worst performance in blue in a long time. Or am I mixing up games?

At any rate, this team is a lot stronger than last year. Some great foreign imports and the younger guys have really kicked on.

I've wiped that game from my memory so don't know. :pac:

irishfan9

Sangre wrote: »

A lot of people talking about Leinster loss to Scarlets in SF last year and how that might impact our European SF. Can someone please refresh my memory as to how that game panned out?

From memory, Scarlets were good but also Leinster was very poor. I recall it was Sexton's worst performance in blue in a long time. Or am I mixing up games?

At any rate, this team is a lot stronger than last year. Some great foreign imports and the younger guys have really kicked on.

luke mcgrath went off injured fairly early and the team collapsed.

it was a truely awful performance.

stephen_n

Sangre wrote: »

A lot of people talking about Leinster loss to Scarlets in SF last year and how that might impact our European SF. Can someone please refresh my memory as to how that game panned out?

From memory, Scarlets were good but also Leinster was very poor. I recall it was Sexton's worst performance in blue in a long time. Or am I mixing up games?

At any rate, this team is a lot stronger than last year. Some great foreign imports and the younger guys have really kicked on.

Both our half backs had a complete mare, along with several others. Though we didn’t lose it, Scarlets definitely won it, they were ruthless and clinical in everything they did. They don’t seem to have reached that level yet, but are well capeable. Though injuries and a much larger involvement with Wales this year will test them a lot more. Plus an extended run in Europe that didn’t affect them last year.

arsebiscuits1

Ugh that bloody Scarlets game.

We lost both McGraths early which did not help. Healy said it after that it had been years since he had played 70 minutes. Not ideal to have a player completely run off their feet when chasing a game.

As I recall Furlong got a bang but struggled on.

Sexton was crap that day. Jonathan Davies ate our midfield for dinner that day and cut off 6 or 7 attempted wraparounds from Sexton. That game had a lot of Lions naysayers saying Johnny isn't good enough anymore ha.

I also recall some shocking and uncharacteristic missed tackles from Rhys

molloyjh

Eh hello, I said I had wiped it from my memory. Stop trying to remind me will ye.....

sydthebeat

adam byrne had a nightmare on the wing

Synode

Sangre wrote: »

A lot of people talking about Leinster loss to Scarlets in SF last year and how that might impact our European SF. Can someone please refresh my memory as to how that game panned out?

From memory, Scarlets were good but also Leinster was very poor. I recall it was Sexton's worst performance in blue in a long time. Or am I mixing up games?

At any rate, this team is a lot stronger than last year. Some great foreign imports and the younger guys have really kicked on.

It was one of those games where absolutely nothing stuck for us. Was very strange to watch as we'd been tearing it up in the league all season

errlloyd

Plus this was Leinster before we had Fardy, Ryan, Lowe, Larmour or Porter. At the same time, I can't think of any player we've lost, or who has dramatically lost form since. (maybe Adam Byrne and Rory O Loughlin.)

shane.

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Ugh that bloody Scarlets game.

We lost both McGraths early which did not help. Healy said it after that it had been years since he had played 70 minutes. Not ideal to have a player completely run off their feet when chasing a game.

As I recall Furlong got a bang but struggled on.

Sexton was crap that day. Jonathan Davies ate our midfield for dinner that day and cut off 6 or 7 attempted wraparounds from Sexton. That game had a lot of Lions naysayers saying Johnny isn't good enough anymore ha.

I also recall some shocking and uncharacteristic missed tackles from Rhys

At least Davies is injured this year, huge loss when it comes to the big games

baas baa

The profile of the league is better in recent seasons but I just can't believe Leinster would've put in that level of performance if it were an ECC game.

Scarlets just caught Leinster cold that day, a lot of players had barely played since the Clermont game and a shadow Leinster side stuffed Scarlets a few weeks earlier. It's not a game I'd use to try and predict what'll happen in 3 weeks time.

typhoony

shane. wrote: »

At least Davies is injured this year, huge loss when it comes to the big games

thought he was almost recovered from injury, he's a clever player and would be a loss for Scarlets if he doesn't make it back in time. henshaw's recovery is ahead of schedule so there could be options at centre

Dubinusa

If Henshaw is available then ferg is dropped? Isa to the wing?

Trojan

Cruel to drop Ferg. Can't drop Isa.

Tough choices.

Dubinusa

Adam Byrne has not had a good season at all. Desperate against Montpellier and so so in other games I've saw.
Like ROL, they both have diminished somewhat and Molony too seems to dropped off a little.
I hope they bounce back.

Clegg

Byrne's season has been completely detailed due to injury. I'm not going to judge him too harshly. He still has problems in defence, but when he's at the top of his game he's avery good in attack. Solid under the high ball ball, great pace and acceleration, good footwork to beat a man and the physicality to get over the gain line when carrying in traffic.

He was playing well enough for Schmidt to include him in the squad for the AI's. Put in a good performance against the Argies iirc.

Dave_The_Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

Adam Byrne has not had a good season at all. Desperate against Montpellier and so so in other games I've saw.

I flicked through the pool stage games there last night or the night before.

Byrne was very good going forward against Montpellier (the first game, didn't feature in the second). Didn't go great against Nadolo a few times, seemed a little intimidated if I recall - but there are plenty of people who have had bad games against Nadolo. He got a card in the last few minutes for a deliberate knock on - but probably stopped a try all the same - otherwise it was Nadolo against Carbery on the outside - only one way I can see that going - and that would have been a BP draw instead of a BP win.

Saying he was desperate isn't fair at all. He was hit and miss, but overall was decent.

.ak

Trojan wrote: »

Cruel to drop Ferg. Can't drop Isa.

Tough choices.

Pick both. Lowe gets dropped either to the bench or in favour of JGP.

salmocab

Larmour will be back in the mix too I think

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

Pick both. Lowe gets dropped either to the bench or in favour of JGP.

Starting McFadden over Lowe would be the height of insanity.

McFadden drops out - it is a ludicrously easy decision.

AdamD

.ak wrote: »

Pick both. Lowe gets dropped either to the bench or in favour of JGP.

Isa's form doesn't warrant being picked ahead of Lowe.

Buer

Nacewa has had one game in months and was OK. He was very good prior to that. He's also team captain. He'll definitely be in the team ahead of Lowe.

If Henshaw and Larmour are back, I'd expect Lowe to drop out for JGP as much as he gives us going forward.

McCarthy's cameo confirmed for me that we cannot rely on him at this level yet.

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

Nacewa has had one game in months and was OK. He was very good prior to that. He's also team captain. He'll definitely be in the team ahead of Lowe.

If Henshaw and Larmour are back, I'd expect Lowe to drop out for JGP as much as he gives us going forward.

McCarthy's cameo confirmed for me that we cannot rely on him at this level yet.

Ah McCarthy wasn't that bad. He made bad decisions about when to kick and in fact pretty much all his bad play were kicks. That's very fixable. In fact, just tell him never to kick turnover ball and you've probably covered the worst of his bad play right there.

stephen_n

Lowe was superb against Saracens, but there are still big questions about his defensive reads. If any team can ask those questions it will be Scarlets.

Faugheen

stephen_n wrote: »

Lowe was superb against Saracens, but there are still big questions about his defensive reads. If any team can ask those questions it will be Scarlets.

I thought Lowe was very good defensively against Saracens to be honest.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ah McCarthy wasn't that bad. He made bad decisions about when to kick and in fact pretty much all his bad play were kicks. That's very fixable. In fact, just tell him never to kick turnover ball and you've probably covered the worst of his bad play right there.

Almost all of his kicks were executed poorly too

.ak

.ak wrote: »

Pick both. Lowe gets dropped either to the bench or in favour of JGP.

Absurd.

prawnsambo

AdamD wrote: »

Isa's form doesn't warrant being picked ahead of Lowe.

It's not a choice between Isa and Lowe though. It's a three into two choice between JGP, Fardy and Lowe.

If we're concerned about Nick McCarthy's abilities in tough games and McGrath is crocked, we've no choice in the matter. If McGrath is OK then it's a question of how comfortable we'd be if he got crocked in the match and McCarthy had to come on early.

It's not an easy choice.

Synode

Isa was excellent against Saracens (and in most matches he played this season). Why would anyone want to drop him

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not a choice between Isa and Lowe though. It's a three into two choice between JGP, Fardy and Lowe.

If we're concerned about Nick McCarthy's abilities in tough games and McGrath is crocked, we've no choice in the matter. If McGrath is OK then it's a question of how comfortable we'd be if he got crocked in the match and McCarthy had to come on early.

It's not an easy choice.

It's a choice that has already been made.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Almost all of his kicks were executed poorly too

True. But they weren't as damaging as the turnover ball kicked out on the full. I'd say the pack had a little chat with him after the game.

I agree with ak. McCarthy is too much of a liability. Lowe loses out. Isa was almost motm against Saracens.

prawnsambo

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

It's a choice that has already been made.

Eh? Where? How?

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Eh? Where? How?

There was a match last weekend. Leinster played Saracens. Lowe and Fardy played and JGP didn't.

GammyHammy

It’s a tough one. Lowe was excellent last week in both defense and attack but Scarlets will pose a lot more questions out wide. With Larmour and potentially Henshaw coming back into the mix it makes picking the backline very difficult. If Henshaw is fit I would go with McFadden and Isa on the wings. JGP on the bench for me (McCarthy just not where he needs to be just yet) with Larmour at 23. Harsh on Lowe but the need for tight defense out wide and JGP on the bench just swings it for me.