Preview: Leinster v Saracens, Sunday April 1, 15:30, BT Sports 2

arsebiscuits1

Deleted User wrote: »

Almost all of his kicks were executed poorly too

I think people are reading far too much into his kicks.

He had 7.

First one he tried to find green in the 22 and Goode was able to mark it. He put an absolute peach of a return kick for a Leinster lineout pretty much where McCarthy kicked it. Good decision for me. You find your range, test the wind, if the player marks it, you still get possession back. Ideally it finds touch but it's a good low risk option to settle a scrumhalf.

Next one was too long, but that was because he was put under illegal pressure from an offside Itoje, he got 4 seconds hang time on the ball fwiw and only a metre or 2 too long. Excusable for me. Penalty back where ball was kicked

Third one was an absolute beauty. Sky high, easily 4 seconds in the air, gave Lowe boat loads of time to put pressure on and Goode made a complete balls of it and got away with not knocking it on.

4th one was the horror slice, leaned forward to try and get a low trajectory and put it in the acres of space in behind Sarries. Off the side of the boot. Has happened to every scrumhalf.

Fifth kick was a perfect kick. High and short to give chasing forwards a chance. Ball was reclaimed with 15m territory gain (under tremendous pressure from a very offside 6 I might add)

6th kick was too long. McFadden gave a hard chase but you could see he wasn't at 100% - it was the 77th minute. Needed to be 3m shorter. But it was the right option, the backline were flat to chase, just poor execution

Final kick was to put the ball out and finish the game.

So I think you're being overly unfair. He didn't have the perfect game. But McGrath didn't exactly do fantastically with his kicks either. It was a really tough, windy day and he will be better for it.

The sheer speed of his pass made him the perfect player to bring on as he gave his first reciever that extra half second against a tired Sarries D.

prawnsambo

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

There was a match last weekend. Leinster played Saracens. Lowe and Fardy played and JGP didn't.

That was last weekend. Where McGrath (possibly) exacerbated his ankle injury and McCarthy didn't have a good cameo with his box kicks at least.

That's the crux of why it's in question now.

And tbh, the patronising tone of your response isn't appreciated. You clearly know what the parameters of this discussion are and the reasons why it's a hot topic now.

arsebiscuits1

prawnsambo wrote: »

That was last weekend. Where McGrath (possibly) exacerbated his ankle injury and McCarthy didn't have a good cameo with his box kicks at least.

That's the crux of why it's in question now.

And tbh, the patronising tone of your response isn't appreciated. You clearly know what the parameters of this discussion are and the reasons why it's a hot topic now.

McGrath was recovering from a knee not ankle injury.

See above on the kicks

stephen_n

We don’t really know what instructions McCarthy was given, maybe he was told to kick as often as he did. It’s possible he just executed the kicks badly, rather than poor decision making. JGP wouldn’t get into the team ahead of my mother based on his kicking ability. If McGrath is fit they will probably keep McCarthy on the bench, but JGP starts if Luke is out.

On Lowe’s defence, yes he was good on Sunday, only remember him getting caught out once. But Saracens weren’t really getting beyond the rush and troubling us out wide. Scarlets have and will manage to get out into those channels far more often. Lowe just seems to have difficulty at times trusting those inside him. It’s improving all the time as Sunday showed, but this would be a real test and one we can’t afford for him to fail.

irishfan9

JGP versus Scarlets... bad memories.

Dubinusa

I don't think JGP kicks very well either, but it will probably come down to Luke's fitness.
Should probably start McCarthy this weekend to give him a boost.
Ruddock probably starts also and hopefully Seanie on the bench.

prawnsambo

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

McGrath was recovering from a knee not ankle injury.

See above on the kicks

Well was it an ankle injury he picked up on Saturday? I thought it was, but am open to correction.

On the kicks, I wasn't particularly upset by them except the kick on turnover ball. I just don't believe that it's the right play to kick away turnover ball. As you point out above, only two of his kicks resulted in us retaining possession which isn't bad, but a one in three chance is not good enough when you've just turned the ball over.

But the concern is not with him on the bench, but with him starting. Which is the possibility that we're facing if McGrath doesn't make it.

Edit: imo, you swap Fardy with JGP and start Lowe. If we're facing the prospect of Luke being out.

Bridge93

McCarthy was fine I don't get this poor performance stuff. Was surprised by his passing. Was much quicker to deliver than an admittedly injured McGrath who looked laboured

molloyjh

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think people are reading far too much into his kicks.

He had 7.

First one he tried to find green in the 22 and Goode was able to mark it. He put an absolute peach of a return kick for a Leinster lineout pretty much where McCarthy kicked it. Good decision for me. You find your range, test the wind, if the player marks it, you still get possession back. Ideally it finds touch but it's a good low risk option to settle a scrumhalf.

Next one was too long, but that was because he was put under illegal pressure from an offside Itoje, he got 4 seconds hang time on the ball fwiw and only a metre or 2 too long. Excusable for me. Penalty back where ball was kicked

Third one was an absolute beauty. Sky high, easily 4 seconds in the air, gave Lowe boat loads of time to put pressure on and Goode made a complete balls of it and got away with not knocking it on.

4th one was the horror slice, leaned forward to try and get a low trajectory and put it in the acres of space in behind Sarries. Off the side of the boot. Has happened to every scrumhalf.

Fifth kick was a perfect kick. High and short to give chasing forwards a chance. Ball was reclaimed with 15m territory gain (under tremendous pressure from a very offside 6 I might add)

6th kick was too long. McFadden gave a hard chase but you could see he wasn't at 100% - it was the 77th minute. Needed to be 3m shorter. But it was the right option, the backline were flat to chase, just poor execution

Final kick was to put the ball out and finish the game.

So I think you're being overly unfair. He didn't have the perfect game. But McGrath didn't exactly do fantastically with his kicks either. It was a really tough, windy day and he will be better for it.

The sheer speed of his pass made him the perfect player to bring on as he gave his first reciever that extra half second against a tired Sarries D.

People behind me were giving out at the end of the game that we kept kicking it and not keeping it in hand, but at that stage it was the right decision to play territory and trust our defence. You don't want to be farting about in your own 22 with a forward (who hits lots of your rucks) missing. Get turned over there and you're in trouble. Clear your lines and the ball is behind the majority of the opposition and you can get your line right and keep them out of your 22 altogether. I really don't see what McCarthy did that was so wrong tbh. I felt we managed the end of the game fairly well given the inexperience at 9 and 10.

As for McGrath, he kicked the ball twice. Not exactly a sample size that would tell us very much.

Bridge93

McGrath injured than JGP starts. If he's fit then for me McCarthy stays on the bench

molloyjh

Bridge93 wrote: »

McGrath injured than JGP starts. If he's fit then for me McCarthy stays on the bench

Yeah, this. Not sure why it would ever be up for discussion.

arsebiscuits1

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well was it an ankle injury he picked up on Saturday? I thought it was, but am open to correction.

On the kicks, I wasn't particularly upset by them except the kick on turnover ball. I just don't believe that it's the right play to kick away turnover ball. As you point out above, only two of his kicks resulted in us retaining possession which isn't bad, but a one in three chance is not good enough when you've just turned the ball over.

But the concern is not with him on the bench, but with him starting. Which is the possibility that we're facing if McGrath doesn't make it.

Sadly the ankle injury is a new injury. Not an recurrence of an existing one.

For me, kicking on turnover ball depends on the context of it. In the case of his slice, his nearest first receiver who could have initiated a counter was Kearney about 30m away. He had 4 forwards in a row outside him.

Tracy (i think) was calling for it on the blind but wasn't a huge amount on - Leinster committed 4 lads to get the turnover.

McCarthy was between his 10m and 22m line, there were no Saracens players inside their own half, we were 11 points up with 10 minutes to go. I think it was a spot on call.

I agree with you though. I'd have JGP start over McCarthy, but currently I'm happy with either of them on the bench behind McGrath

arsebiscuits1

molloyjh wrote: »

People behind me were giving out at the end of the game that we kept kicking it and not keeping it in hand, but at that stage it was the right decision to play territory and trust our defence. You don't want to be farting about in your own 22 with a forward (who hits lots of your rucks) missing. Get turned over there and you're in trouble. Clear your lines and the ball is behind the majority of the opposition and you can get your line right and keep them out of your 22 altogether. I really don't see what McCarthy did that was so wrong tbh. I felt we managed the end of the game fairly well given the inexperience at 9 and 10.

As for McGrath, he kicked the ball twice. Not exactly a sample size that would tell us very much.

I thought McGrath kicked more. I am guilty of lazily judging a player when I just spent 20 minutes disproving lazy judgement of another. Do'h

irishfan9

Dubinusa wrote: »

I don't think JGP kicks very well either, but it will probably come down to Luke's fitness.
Should probably start McCarthy this weekend to give him a boost.
Ruddock probably starts also and hopefully Seanie on the bench.

SOB said he is targeting Treviso.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

McCarthy was fine I don't get this poor performance stuff. Was surprised by his passing. Was much quicker to deliver than an admittedly injured McGrath who looked laboured

He had one terrible kick and that's what sticks in the mind. He was fine otherwise.

prawnsambo

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

For me, kicking on turnover ball depends on the context of it. In the case of his slice, his nearest first receiver who could have initiated a counter was Kearney about 30m away. He had 4 forwards in a row outside him.

Tracy (i think) was calling for it on the blind but wasn't a huge amount on - Leinster committed 4 lads to get the turnover.

McCarthy was between his 10m and 22m line, there were no Saracens players inside their own half, we were 11 points up with 10 minutes to go. I think it was a spot on call.

Tracy had a pretty clear run though, in about a 10m channel and only one defender to beat who had his back to him. Sarries were all over the place defensively, they had four guys tied up in the ruck too and there seemed to be nobody back.

A contestable would have been the wrong option imo. Too much hang time allowing defenders to get back. I honestly thought the blind side was a genuine option and would have backed Tracy to make a strong carry there.

Podge_irl

prawnsambo wrote: »

Tracy had a pretty clear run though, in about a 10m channel and only one defender to beat who had his back to him. Sarries were all over the place defensively, they had four guys tied up in the ruck too and there seemed to be nobody back.

A contestable would have been the wrong option imo. Too much hang time allowing defenders to get back. I honestly thought the blind side was a genuine option and would have backed Tracy to make a strong carry there.

I don't think he was trying for a contestable, he was trying to hoof it into a giant amount of space in the Sarries half. Thought it was a perfectly fine decision but just terrible execution.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think he was trying for a contestable, he was trying to hoof it into a giant amount of space in the Sarries half. Thought it was a perfectly fine decision but just terrible execution.

The way he set up looked like he was trying to get it in the air rather than kick it long. For me (and this is only imo), a short chip might have been a better option. But I still reckon a pop to Tracy would have been the best option. The lads in the ruck were getting to their feet, first of whom was Carbery who I'd have backed to provide support. Never mind Leavy.

Probably like Thomond, I'm no great lover of box kicks. . I know they have their uses, but against certain teams they can be suicidal.

stephen_n

molloyjh wrote: »

People behind me were giving out at the end of the game that we kept kicking it and not keeping it in hand, but at that stage it was the right decision to play territory and trust our defence. You don't want to be farting about in your own 22 with a forward (who hits lots of your rucks) missing. Get turned over there and you're in trouble. Clear your lines and the ball is behind the majority of the opposition and you can get your line right and keep them out of your 22 altogether. I really don't see what McCarthy did that was so wrong tbh. I felt we managed the end of the game fairly well given the inexperience at 9 and 10.

As for McGrath, he kicked the ball twice. Not exactly a sample size that would tell us very much.

Kicking the ball away, means you’re going to be defending more. Doing so with tired bodies and minds, much easier to fall off a tackle or be slightly out of position in the line. We have become very good at dictating the pace of the game, by working through phases. Kicking the ball away like that allowed Saracens the opportunity to dictate play. Yes inside our own 22 kick, but we were doing it near the halfway line and beyond, where Munster rugby would have eaten up the clock more effectively.

prawnsambo

stephen_n wrote: »

Kicking the ball away, means you’re going to be defending more. Doing so with tired bodies and minds, much easier to fall off a tackle or be slightly out of position in the line. We have become very good at dictating the pace of the game, by working through phases. Kicking the ball away like that allowed Saracens the opportunity to dictate play. Yes inside our own 22 kick, but we were doing it near the halfway line and beyond, where Munster rugby would have eaten up the clock more effectively.

Yeah. Funny you should mention Munster. I remember Munster in ROG's last season playing Dragons (I think) and ROG kicked a ball back to them with the clock about to go in the red and Munster spent the next eght minutes (iirc) defending a slender lead.

That kick that went out on the full was made with ten minutes on the clock. An eleven point lead is comfortable, but not so confortable if a try had been conceded off that.

Podge_irl

There was an acre of space to kick into. If the kick had been executed properly Sarries would have had either a line out well in their own half or had the ball under pressure in their own half. I would take either of those things over a potentially isolated runner near our own 22.

irishfan9

I'd say this kick has gotten more analysis than here than in UCD.

It was a decent idea than was poorly executed, let's not crucify a 23 year old inexperienced scrumhalf.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

There was an acre of space to kick into. If the kick had been executed properly Sarries would have had either a line out well in their own half or had the ball under pressure in their own half. I would take either of those things over a potentially isolated runner near our own 22.

An acre of space that he missed both in direction and distance. Kicks are always percentage plays and when you have turnover ball, a percentage play is poor use of it. The chances of Tracy getting turned over by one tackler were absolutely nil. There was nobody else back there and as many Leinster players as Sarries in the same position to follow up and support him. McCarthy was also available for support.

There's no way I would consider the kick to be the best option there. Certainly not the way it was executed, which even if it had stayed infield, would have been airborne too long for it to create an advantage.

stephen_n

irishfan9 wrote: »

I'd say this kick has gotten more analysis than here than in UCD.

It was a decent idea than was poorly executed, let's not crucify a 23 year old inexperienced scrumhalf.

Don’t think anyone is crucifying him, just analyzing the options he took. As I said earlier, that might we be what he was told to do. I’d still disagree with kicking that much possession away, no matter if it was McCarthy or Leo’s decision to do so.

.ak

AdamD wrote: »

Isa's form doesn't warrant being picked ahead of Lowe.

Does for me. He’s the captain and player of the season for me in terms of what he’s brought to the team especially in crunch games.

.ak

Podge_irl wrote: »

Starting McFadden over Lowe would be the height of insanity.

McFadden drops out - it is a ludicrously easy decision.

Not really that clear cut, it’s important we don’t have two left wingers on the pitch altho i’d warrant isa can play either side play. Also I think people are underrating McFadden - he’s been rock solid and his goal kicking ability is handy.

.ak

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

There was a match last weekend. Leinster played Saracens. Lowe and Fardy played and JGP didn't.

You’re ignoring the source of the conversation; Henshaw may be back.

And as pointed above, we may have to pick jgp in the 23 if McGrath is injured.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

Not really that clear cut, it’s important we don’t have two left wingers on the pitch altho i’d warrant isa can play either side play. Also I think people are underrating McFadden - he’s been rock solid and his goal kicking ability is handy.

I do not believe I am under-rating him. I have always been a fan but he is not bringing it anymore. His work rate is still impressive but he is there precisely to be rock solid and he is no longer so. He has issues in defence and brings nowhere near the same in attack.

His goal kicking is handy I will grant you but while I could understand sacrificing Lowe for JGP, there is not a hope he ends up on the bench so McFadden starts. It would be insane.

.ak

.ak wrote: »

You’re ignoring the source of the conversation; Henshaw may be back.

And as pointed above, we may have to pick jgp in the 23 if McGrath is injured.

Henshaw being back is not relevant to Lowe v McFadden, the former should quite obviously get picked. If McGrath is out then yes it's hard to see how Lowe makes the team. Though I'd say we have better replacements for Fardy than Lowe with Ruddock fit and Ryan being brilliant.

errlloyd

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

Henshaw being back is not relevant to Lowe v McFadden, the former should quite obviously get picked. If McGrath is out then yes it's hard to see how Lowe makes the team. Though I'd say we have better replacements for Fardy than Lowe with Ruddock fit and Ryan being brilliant.

I am not retracing. But I think it goes like this.

"hey cool, henshaw is back, let's move Isa to wing"

"oh great, now we can drop either Lowe or McFadden"

"well the difference between them is marginal, Lowe is better, but if we drop him we can now also pick JGP"

And there you have it.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

well the difference between them is marginal

Well I would disagree with this.

Leinster scored three tries the other day, he got one and did all the hard work for another. If McGrath is available he has to play imo.

errlloyd

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

Well I would disagree with this.

Leinster scored three tries the other day, he got one and did all the hard work for another. If McGrath is available he has to play imo.

Yeah, but your missing the point. Your post was based in the established precedent that Lowe and Fardy started the last game and will therefore start the next.

The change is that in the last game the decision was between Lowe and next best winger (Daly i presume). Where they made a call that the marginal difference between Lowe and Daly was greater than JGP and McCarthy. Now that comparison is with mcfadden .

For the record. I'd start Daly and Larmour. But who am I.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

Yeah, but your missing the point. Your post was based in the established precedent that Lowe and Fardy started the last game and will therefore start the next.

The change is that in the last game the decision was between Lowe and next best winger (Daly i presume). Where they made a call that the marginal difference between Lowe and Daly was greater than JGP and McCarthy. Now that comparison is with mcfadden .

For the record. I'd start Daly and Larmour. But who am I.

No I'm not missing any point. For me the only thing that should impact Lowe being in the team is whether McGrath is fit or not.

Beechwoodspark

When are tickets on sale?

swiwi_

.ak wrote: »

Not really that clear cut, it’s important we don’t have two left wingers on the pitch altho i’d warrant isa can play either side play. Also I think people are underrating McFadden - he’s been rock solid and his goal kicking ability is handy.

I admire your unwavering support for McFadden. From last weeks match Williams/Lowe/maitland >> McFadden.

Synode

swiwi_ wrote: »

I admire your unwavering support for McFadden. From last weeks match Williams/Lowe/maitland >> McFadden.

Williams was brutal imo

.ak

swiwi_ wrote: »

I admire your unwavering support for McFadden. From last weeks match Williams/Lowe/maitland >> McFadden.

What in your opinion did he do, or didn't do, that made him the worst winger on the pitch?

Maybe that'd be more interesting way of discussing things rather than just waiting in the grass for anytime to mention anything somewhat positive about McFadden to pounce on them. It's bizarre.

For my money Maitland was actually the best winger on the pitch. Lowe a close second. Ferg was better as an all round contributor on the pitch than Williams, who in fairness took a heavy knock in the opening salvo and never really recovered.

I wouldn't say McFadden is the even the 4th best winger in the province right now, in my opinion, but he keeps getting picked ahead of others for these big games. Obviously injury ensured his selection on Sunday, but he was selected ahead of players, and that raised some eyebrows, during this European campaign and you've got to ask yourself why do the coaches keep selecting him but the general public have the knives out for him.

Gotta think on that for a second. I reckon a lot of people like yourself just don't like him because he's not a very exciting player or scintillating runner. But he's not bad at the aul rugby lark.

swiwi_

.ak wrote: »

What in your opinion did he do, or didn't do, that made him the worst winger on the pitch?

Maybe that'd be more interesting way of discussing things rather than just waiting in the grass for anytime to mention anything somewhat positive about McFadden to pounce on them. It's bizarre.

For my money Maitland was actually the best winger on the pitch. Lowe a close second. Ferg was better as an all round contributor on the pitch than Williams, who in fairness took a heavy knock in the opening salvo and never really recovered.

I wouldn't say McFadden is the even the 4th best winger in the province right now, in my opinion, but he keeps getting picked ahead of others for these big games. Obviously injury ensured his selection on Sunday, but he was selected ahead of players, and that raised some eyebrows, during this European campaign and you've got to ask yourself why do the coaches keep selecting him but the general public have the knives out for him.

Gotta think on that for a second. I reckon a lot of people like yourself just don't like him because he's not a very exciting player or scintillating runner. But he's not bad at the aul rugby lark.

I'm not anti-McFadden in the sense where I have it in for him. I do however think an ambitious and top-flight European club like Leinster should expect more than just "solid" from their first XV wingers. So I do indeed ask myself why the coaches keep selecting him. He was reliable enough in terms of positioning and tackling, lost the aerial battle, gave away a silly enough penalty, and posed minimal threat with ball in hand. It's a no-brainer for me that if Henshaw is back, McFadden drops out and Nacewa moves to the wing. Leinster are lucky in that the team is playing so well in so many positions that the lack of attacking incision from McFadden is of no real consequence. But I'm not anti-McFadden for the sake of it, I comment on what I see with my own eyes, not from preconceived notions. I certainly wouldn't say McFadden was a toxic substance in the weekend for example :P

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

For my money Maitland was actually the best winger on the pitch. Lowe a close second. Ferg was better as an all round contributor on the pitch than Williams, who in fairness took a heavy knock in the opening salvo and never really recovered.

So why on earth suggest McFadden starting with Lowe on the bench??

Former Former

McFadden has been a lot more than solid this season. He's been very good in attack.

Lowe in fairness was rock solid against Sarries so if he's picking up the whole "defending" thing then he'll be very hard to drop.

This seems to me to be a good thing? With Byrne not making the grade and DK injured, we don't have many options.

Most likely there'll be no change against Scarlets, I can't see Henshaw being back and apparently McGrath will be fine.

I thought Liam Williams was pretty poor on Sunday. He was pretty much entirely culpable for the first try.

stephen_n

Former Former wrote: »

McFadden has been a lot more than solid this season. He's been very good in attack.

Lowe in fairness was rock solid against Sarries so if he's picking up the whole "defending" thing then he'll be very hard to drop.

This seems to me to be a good thing? With Byrne not making the grade and DK injured, we don't have many options.

Most likely there'll be no change against Scarlets, I can't see Henshaw being back and apparently McGrath will be fine.

I thought Liam Williams was pretty poor on Sunday. He was pretty much entirely culpable for the first try.

Jesus that’s a bit harsh, he earned his first Irish cap in November and has been injured since. Writing him off is a bit premature.

irishfan9

What grade has Byrne not made?

If either of those players isn't making the grade anymore it's Dave Kearney. His form has fallen off a cliff. Wouldn't be shocked if Leinster didn't renew his contract whenever it's up tbh.

Former Former

stephen_n wrote: »

Jesus that’s a bit harsh, he earned his first Irish cap in November and has been injured since. Writing him off is a bit premature.

Not writing him off at all. Just he has not reached the point where he's a candidate to be in the first XV in a European quarter-final.

He's been back fit for two months now and his exclusion from the Sarries game didn't raise a murmur of objection.

If he kicks on again from here, great - but he does need to improve if he's going to rise above the level of squad player.

typhoony

I would'nt have Adam Byrne or Lowe in against the Scarlets, what you need is solid backline defenders. both of them have issues with their defense.

Trojan

Isa is undropable. Captain, incredible form this season, covers multiple positions, kicker, leadership.

McCarthy had a good stint when he came on. The difference in passing speed was immediately noticeable, even from a seat high in the gods. One sliced kick is allowable, even Sexton had a couple in the 6N.

McFadden is rock solid. That's why he's the go-to for Joe and Leo. No, he doesn't have the flash of Lowe and Larmour, but in knock-out cup rugby having him in your defence might be worth sacrificing one of the other two.

Lowe could score 2 tries and concede 2. Or score 3 and concede none. You just don't know. I love his style and enthusiasm, but in a tight game who knows what could happen.

GammyHammy

If you look at the last quarter of the Saracens game McFadden bailed out Nacewa twice because Isa was blowing hard and lacked the pace at that stage of the game to get to the outside man. He more often than not makes the right decision outwide and that is not to be underestimated since your right winger generally marking the oppositions most attacking winger on the left. I agree, you would like to see better attacking instincts from a winger but to use a well worn out cliche, defenses win Championships

So Leinster have just played probably their toughest game of the season to date, Lowe was outstanding and certainly better than our other winger, and this forum seems to have decided that as a result he should be dropped.

Ok.

I sincerely hope the coaches don't take a similar view.

irishbucsfan

The only way Lowe doesn't play is if McGrath is missing.

Chalk it down. And then write over that chalk in permanent marker, because it's absolutely certain.

salmocab

Janelle Scary Cheddar wrote: »

So Leinster have just played probably their toughest game of the season to date, Lowe was outstanding and certainly better than our other winger, and this forum seems to have decided that as a result he should be dropped.

Ok.

I sincerely hope the coaches don't take a similar view.

In fairness Id imagine most people want him to play, I certainly do hes a fantastic player and a real hard worker. Also quite dreamy.