Preview: Leinster v Saracens, Sunday April 1, 15:30, BT Sports 2

.ak

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Missing a 6ft6 18 stone lock crowd surfing over a maul 5 yards in front of you is bad. Garces said "through the middle" i think.

Wigglesworth was a YC all day long. It was intentional

Can't see how the RK one was even a penalty tbh. Williams steps straight at Kearney and slips into him. Kearney made absolutely no motion towards Williams.

Like I said he made the wrong call on the Itoje one but so what? No refs have faultless performances.

Wigglesworth one should’ve been yellow but that’s my interpretation and his was different, there’s nothing to say a no arms tackle is an automatic yellow card.

Regardless of what Kearney was trying to do, and he was clearly attempting to tackle the last man, he still tackles Williams without using his arms. Could’ve been a card if not for the slip. Again both actions could’ve been interpreted as penalties only. Right call IMO.

Steve

.ak wrote: »

Yeah I’d agree. Thought he was spot on and doubt people would be complaining as much if he had held out didcipline and didn’t get pinged off the park.

There’s no one else I’d rather ref us right now.

Well, you should have been in the dressing room and told Leo that... he was very lenient in most regards, Scarries played to that, We didn't..

Just sayin...

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I saw discussion among neutral refs about the maul, if he entered it legally and then got lifted onto it it’s not illegal.

Saying Wigglesworth is a YC and Kearney is not a penalty at all is a bit inconsistent. They’re both completely defensible calls as penalties.

Wigglesworth’s was a shoulder charge, it wasn’t a tackle or an attempt at one. Kearney’s could possibly be interpreted as a no arms challenge, but it’s not comparible in intent or action.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Wigglesworth’s was a shoulder charge, it wasn’t a tackle or an attempt at one. Kearney’s could possibly be interpreted as a no arms challenge, but it’s not comparible in intent or action.

Intent is irrelevant

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Intent is irrelevant

You just skipping the or action then?

Bridge93

My issue with Wigglesworth was it was the fourth time it happened

whatawaster

There was a lovely moment after the match today.

Cronin had brought his two (tiny next to him) young kids out as they did their lap of honour. As the rest of the team left the field, Sean couldn't get the two kids to follow him off and couldn't manage to hold more than one at a time.

James Tracy eventually came running back on to the pitch and picked up one of the little ones and they walked off together to a great cheer from the crowd.

Burkie1203

whatawaster wrote: »

There was a lovely moment after the match today.

Cronin had brought his two (tiny next to him) young kids out as they did their lap of honour. As the rest of the team left the field, Sean couldn't get the two kids to follow him off and couldn't manage to hold more than one at a time.

James Tracy eventually came running back on to the pitch and picked up one of the little ones and they walked off together to a great cheer from the crowd.

The post match interview was good too. Bayfield (?) asked Sexton about Leavy. "He does ok"

James Lowe is going to be a Leinster legend. The guys just loves being on the pitch. He even packed down for a few scrums when Toner was in the bin. Saved him running in to do the back slapping

The Rape of Lucretia

Sephiral wrote: »

Leinster's options at openside flanker are Sean O Brien, Josh Van Der Flier and Den Leavy. Fairly obscene.

Or, just for the sheer fun of it, as one might have fun with in a video game, all three together :

6 : LVY : Marauder
7 : VDF : Hunter-Destroyer
8 : SOB : Wrecking Ball

typhoony

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Or, just for the sheer fun of it, as one might have fun with in a video game, all three together :

6 : LVY : Marauder
7 : VDF : Hunter-Destroyer
8 : SOB : Wrecking Ball

Leavy is first name on back-row teamsheet then Conan, Ruddock, and SOB all are ahead of VDF for me. not forgetting how do you leave out Fardy if the second row is Ryan and Toner.

PhlegmyMoses

typhoony wrote: »

Leavy is first name on back-row teamsheet then Conan, Ruddock, and SOB all are ahead of VDF for me. not forgetting how do you leave out Fardy if the second row is Ryan and Toner.

VDF is an absolute monster though, not sire it's that simple. Think some are forgetting how good he is. His work rate is off the charts. Just lucky to have both him and leavy coming through at the same time.

Peregrine

typhoony wrote: »

Leavy is first name on back-row teamsheet then Conan, Ruddock, and SOB all are ahead of VDF for me. not forgetting how do you leave out Fardy if the second row is Ryan and Toner.

Before VdF got injured, he was one of our best players. Absolutely immense in every game and kept Leavy out. Leavy got his chance and he's taken it exceptionally well both with Ireland and Leinster but I don't expect VdF to go out quietly.

Clegg

VdF was first choice openside for Ireland in the 6N. There really isn't that much between himself and Leavy. Leavy is the stronger player and VdF the quicker. Up to the start of the 6N VdF was playing great stuff for Leinster and was rightly our starting openside.

PhlegmyMoses

.ak wrote: »

If you cut out those braindead penalties in the first half you’ve got to say Leinster absolutely dominated Saracens. They made it look easy. Even going into the break at 13-12 I felt we were the superior team, oozed class in attack and our defence was incredibly well drilled. The only thing keeping Sarries in the game was us with those stupid penalties.

I thought Garces was find, really can’t unserstabd the moaning. Sure itoje sacked that maul illegally but you can’t catch everything, and sure Wigglesworth should’ve seen 10 for the challenge on Sexton but Kearney probably shouldn’t seen yellow too so it was evens there.

Leavy, Ryan, Sexton, Kearney and Nacewa were a class above anything Sarries could offer.

My only gripes aside from the penalties was McCarthy, he was so far away from the required level it was worrying. Box kicks were all awful, but also his work off the ruck was poor and rushed, if we plan on bringing him into the semi he needs work over the next few weeks because if Luke breaks in the first few min against Scarlets we’re screwed. The other thing is Nacewa, now we see why the management have kept him on ice. Unfortunately as the saying goes time waits for no man, and in the final quarter he was flagging badly I thought. Really struggled to push the defence outside of him and players had to turn in to support him. Still for the first 60 he was immense.

Would agree about Nacewa. Felt like he missed a lot of tackles today that he'd normally make with ease. Did some incredible things and made a huge amount of tackles as well, but he showed a bit of fallibility today. Ringrose wasn't so hot in the tackling department either imo. Haven't seen stats for either yet so correct me if I'm wrong but they seemed to be sending the big men down our centre and they were getting some yardage out of it. It's where you really miss Henshaw.

Peregrine

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Would agree about Nacewa. Felt like he missed a lot of tackles today that he'd normally make with ease. Did some incredible things and made a huge amount of tackles as well, but he showed a bit of fallibility today. Ringrose wasn't so hot in the tackling department either imo. Haven't seen stats for either yet so correct me if I'm wrong but they seemed to be sending the big men down our centre and they were getting some yardage out of it. It's where you really miss Henshaw.

The Leinster midfield did miss a lot of tackles. Ringrose more so than Nacewa. I might watch it back and look a little closer at the missed tackles if I get the time.

Edit: ESPN Scrum says Ringrose made 8 tackles and missed 8. Isa made 15 and missed 7.

P_1

Just home from the match, slightly pissed, we did well, Leavey's try was glorious, where do I buy tickets for Bilbau?

prawnsambo

Peregrine wrote: »

The Leinster midfield did miss a lot of tackles. Ringrose more so than Nacewa. I might watch it back and look a little closer at the missed tackles if I get the time.

Edit: ESPN Scrum says Ringrose made 8 tackles and missed 8. Isa made 15 and missed 7.

That's a 'feature' of Leinster's defensive system. The midfield rush will inevitably miss a few but the second up tacklers mop up the survivors. Leinster miss a lot of tackles, but there aren't a lot of line breaks conceded either.

Tim Robbins

Clegg wrote: »

VdF was first choice openside for Ireland in the 6N. There really isn't that much between himself and Leavy. Leavy is the stronger player and VdF the quicker. Up to the start of the 6N VdF was playing great stuff for Leinster and was rightly our starting openside.

Sometimes I think Leavy is more of a 6 anyone else?

Peregrine

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's a 'feature' of Leinster's defensive system. The midfield rush will inevitably miss a few but the second up tacklers mop up the survivors. Leinster miss a lot of tackles, but there aren't a lot of line breaks conceded either.

I know you're bound to miss tackles with a rush defence but I thought they still missed an awful lot more than usual. I won't be critical because I don't remember the individual tackles and the defensive line did its job.

Dog Botherer

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Sometimes I think Leavy is more of a 6 anyone else?

I think he’s a the rare flanker who can play either side of the scrum with ease. Well, I say rare, but Leinster also have SOB and Jordi (who’s also a pretty handy 8). But yeah, I’d have no problem getting playing him at 6 for club or country, definitely gives us some flexibility with getting our best players on the pitch.

Dave_The_Sheep

Former Former wrote: »

Garces is probably the best ref in the game right now.

prawnsambo wrote: »

I actually think Wayne Barnes is better. There, I've said it.

I'm on the side of Barnes overall, but they are top two for me right now. Generally great communication, decision making and know when to take others input and when to make their own decision.

AbusesToilets

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

I'm on the side of Barnes overall, but they are top two for me right now. Generally great communication, decision making and know when to take others input and when to make their own decision.

Far better than the overly lauded Owens imo. Would also have Poite and Gardner ahead of him too.

Neil3030

fullstop wrote: »

Agreed, some of his kicking in the last 10 was brainless. The turnover from Leavy's counter-ruck and he just picks it up and box kicks straight to touch when Leinster had loads of backs in space on the far side as well as a couple of other box kicks after that were very poor.
On the Kearney incident, I thought the penalty was very harsh as he's still waiting to see what way Williams is going to go and is not ready to tackle when Williams slips into him...but if he's giving the penalty is it not a penalty try?

Williams had stepped inside so I reckon Tracy had him covered.

baaba maal

Clegg wrote: »

VdF was first choice openside for Ireland in the 6N. There really isn't that much between himself and Leavy. Leavy is the stronger player and VdF the quicker. Up to the start of the 6N VdF was playing great stuff for Leinster and was rightly our starting openside.

I think the one area Leavy has overtaken VDF is his carrying. VDF doesn't seem to carry and pass very often and that is fast becoming a requirement to some extent for all backrows I think.

.ak

swiwi_ wrote: »

Happy with that.

BOD giving MOTM to Leavy is the right call: even God would have trouble choosing between SOB, Leavy and VDF for the starting 7 shirt.

Hats off to James Ryan who was also excellent, as was Nacewa.

For Sarries, I thought Goode was good...

Leinster vs R92 in the final is what I predict...and another star for my Leinster shirt.

Ofcourse there’s a possibility where we could play the following backrow:

08. SOB
07. JVDF
06. Leavy

In fact, the more I think of it, the more I see SOB’s future at 6 or 8. With all the injuries I have a feeling he’ll have lost a yard of pace that’s required to cover the openside.

EDIT: Doh, sorry just seen TRoL’s post...

.ak

baaba maal wrote: »

I think the one area Leavy has overtaken VDF is his carrying. VDF doesn't seem to carry and pass very often and that is fast becoming a requirement to some extent for all backrows I think.

Leavy only passed twice yesterday in 19 carries iirc.

Both Leavy and VDF have very good hands tho, don’t think either stand out above each other there.

Two fairly different 7s, both bring something unique to the party. Jvdf must be worried now tho.

.ak

Peregrine wrote: »

The Leinster midfield did miss a lot of tackles. Ringrose more so than Nacewa. I might watch it back and look a little closer at the missed tackles if I get the time.

Edit: ESPN Scrum says Ringrose made 8 tackles and missed 8. Isa made 15 and missed 7.

Yeah and the majority of those tackles Isa missed were in the final quarter he seemed to be flagging. You get the feeling his time is limited now.

However, one thing I will say is the stats don’t show the effect of those missed tackles, a lot of them were shots out of the line to force the runner back inside, both Isa and Ringrose stopped a fair few try opportunities wuthout actually completing the tackle.

.ak

Anyone have a clip of Tadhg cutting Mako in half? Or RK flattening Williams?

Burkie1203

.ak wrote: »

Leavy only passed twice yesterday in 19 carries iirc.

Both Leavy and VDF have very good hands tho, don’t think either stand out above each other there.

Two fairly different 7s, both bring something unique to the party. Jvdf must be worried now tho.

Leavy was too busy carrying for 82 metres to pass.

Jordi going Nordi, Heaslip retired and SOB forever injured. Plenty of scope for VDF to play alongside Leavy at Leinster anyway

Having Ruddock back is perfectly timed.

GammyHammy

.ak wrote: »

Yeah and the majority of those tackles Isa missed were in the final quarter he seemed to be flagging. You get the feeling his time is limited now.

However, one thing I will say is the stats don’t show the effect of those missed tackles, a lot of them were shots out of the line to force the runner back inside, both Isa and Ringrose stopped a fair few try opportunities wuthout actually completing the tackle.

Yea would generally agree, Ringrose slowed some of their attack’s down by shepherding wide. However I did feel he slipped off a few and can thank both McFadden and Lowe on a few occasions for stepping in at the right time and taking man and ball. Thought they defended well throughout.

Boscoirl

Saracens were really poor. Part of that is down to Leinster not allowing them to play. But for me they were the easily the worst team of the weekend. Absolutely not invention from them. Farrell and Goode had good games but the rest were poor.

prawnsambo

Boscoirl wrote: »

Saracens were really poor. Part of that is down to Leinster not allowing them to play. But for me they were the easily the worst team of the weekend. Absolutely not invention from them. Farrell and Goode had good games but the rest were poor.

It was more than Farrell and Goode. Brad Barritt, Sean Maitland, Mako Vunipola, Jackson Wray and Liam Williams all had very good games. And their bench made a significant impact as well. They were not bad at all. They got hit early by a very good counter attack and were playing catch up from five minutes into the game.

Buer

Boscoirl wrote: »

Saracens were really poor. Part of that is down to Leinster not allowing them to play. But for me they were the easily the worst team of the weekend. Absolutely not invention from them. Farrell and Goode had good games but the rest were poor.

I thought they were very well drilled for the opening 40. They made ground on most carries and dominated possession and territory. They played very much like Ireland, controlling a huge amount of phase play and squeezing Leinster into making errors and forcing penalties.

Take an early try out of it due to a poor missed tackle and Saracens had the better of the opening half comfortably, I thought.

But Leinster have long had a habit of stepping up in the third quarter. Those 20 minutes were as good a spell as I've seen from them.

Time to get the cotton wool out again and wrap up some lads until the semi.

yosser hughes

Boscoirl wrote: »

Saracens were really poor. Part of that is down to Leinster not allowing them to play. But for me they were the easily the worst team of the weekend. Absolutely not invention from them. Farrell and Goode had good games but the rest were poor.

I though Barritt in particular was outstanding. If they had scored from that lineout before half time things could have been a lot different.

.ak

Thought he was poor in defence myself, very hesitant on set pieces. The time Rob Kearney ran it out of our 22 he got completely flat footed in defence and didn’t seem to know where to stand - he was all over the shop and that made it very difficult for his 10 and 13 to successfully call the push.

Boscoirl

I thought they were very one dimensional and only stupid penalties kept them in the game in the first half.

The early try definitely gave Leinster some breathing room. And despite a good purple patch before ht Leinster were comfortable.

Vunipola turned it over too many times in contact

prawnsambo

Boscoirl wrote: »

I thought they were very one dimensional and only stupid penalties kept them in the game in the first half.

The early try definitely gave Leinster some breathing room. And despite a good purple patch before ht Leinster were comfortable.

Vunipola turned it over too many times in contact

He only turned it over twice. One of those was when he offloaded to Blair Cowan's knees.

But he made 20 carries and had a clean break and two defenders beaten. He was one of their standouts, but tired towards the end unsurprisingly.

Their one-dimenionality came from our line speed. They couldn't get the ball wide very often and when they did, they were shepherded away from danger.

Bridge93

I enjoy watching the Premiership on a Saturday afternoon so have seen a lot of Saracens and can safely say that's comfortably in their top 3 performances this year as a collective.

dubal

Bridge93 wrote: »

I enjoy watching the Premiership on a Saturday afternoon so have seen a lot of Saracens and can safely say that's comfortably in their top 3 performances this year as a collective.

I had a quick look at their forum, and it tends to concur. They feel its a sign they are coming into form and are playing better.

pickarooney

.ak wrote: »

Leavy only passed twice yesterday in 19 carries iirc.

Both of them offloads, no?

Champagne player.

BoardsMember

Buer wrote: »

I thought they were very well drilled for the opening 40. They made ground on most carries and dominated possession and territory. They played very much like Ireland, controlling a huge amount of phase play and squeezing Leinster into making errors and forcing penalties.

Take an early try out of it due to a poor missed tackle and Saracens had the better of the opening half comfortably, I thought.

But Leinster have long had a habit of stepping up in the third quarter. Those 20 minutes were as good a spell as I've seen from them.

Time to get the cotton wool out again and wrap up some lads until the semi.

This was my reading of it too, I thought they were playing much the better rugby in the first half they owned the ball and were playing almost exclusively in our half. I was delighted to get to half time ahead, we had been under so much pressure. We came out a different team in the second half, very impressive performance.

AdamD

At the game it seemed like Saracens were overly reliant on Vunipola and Barritt to carry, their back row seemed non existent. Thought Farrell was excellent, brilliant passer.

Spoke before the game to someone about how Dan Leavy and James Ryan seemed to work together as a team during the 6N, then they pull that out of the bag yesterday.

James Ryan 21
Dan Leavy 23

Ridiculous.

Bridge93

The way Saracens went about it in the first half it seemed that, despite not playing at tempo, there was a brutal and clinical inevitability to what they were doing.

Most impressive passage of play were the 20 odd phases I think between Leinsters second and third tries. They absolutely pounded Sarries yet they wouldn't buckle when I can confidently say that any other team in Europe probably would have bar maybe Exeter. It was incredible to witness the tackles going in

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

Spoke before the game to someone about how Dan Leavy and James Ryan seemed to work together as a team during the 6N, then they pull that out of the bag yesterday.

James Ryan 21
Dan Leavy 23

Ridiculous.

Ryan is a very intelligent player with ball in hand, he’s always looking to get behind defenders and get his hands free. Leavy has some eye for a gap too, his pick and goes from the edge of rucks, are exceptional. We seem to be producing forwards now that are capeable of playing really good attacking rugby, it’s a joy to watch.

Faugheen

James Ryan still hasn't lost a game as a professional.

That's an incredible record really.

He's going to be a massive star. He looks like he's been playing at this level for years.

Definitely a future Leinster and Ireland captain, with a ceiling as high as Paul O'Connell's.

Faugheen

Faugheen wrote: »

James Ryan still hasn't lost a game as a professional.

That's an incredible record really.

He's going to be a massive star. He looks like he's been playing at this level for years.

Definitely a future Leinster and Ireland captain, with a ceiling as high as Paul O'Connell's.

I'm not saying he's there at all yet but his ceiling is potentially higher. He can catch and pass.

Bridge93

Yeah from a playing perspective he seems to have a potentially higher ceiling. Whether he has even a quarter of the intangibles that POC brought remains to be seen given he's only 21

Also, once again Furlong was outstanding. He's got some engine considering the mass he has to carry around the pitch.

pickarooney

Furlong played the full 80 yesterday?

Any full match vids around? I only saw 15 mins.